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Are active speakers still worthwhile?
- Thread starter fcracer
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watchnerd
Grand Contributor
DSP crossovers have notable advantages in phase.
As for software updates to keep them running, not sure what you mean?
My Dynaudio LYD 5's have never had a software update.
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watchnerd
Grand Contributor
You can get plate amps with the DSP and DAC components built in, such as this Hypex module:
You still have to design the crossover filter yourself, but apparently Hypex has software that is used for that, and then uploads it to the amp.
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I'm pretty sure this is what AsciLab has chosen for their upcoming active models.You can get plate amps with the DSP and DAC components built in, such as this Hypex module:
You still have to design the crossover filter yourself, but apparently Hypex has software that is used for that, and then uploads it to the amp.
It's actually pretty straightforward. (Assuming you want to target the same transfer functions.)
You need to make a differential measurement across the passive crossover sections and save those to curve match against with your line-level DSP crossover implementation.
No acoustic measurements required.
Tovarich007
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Well, this thread is a purely theorical debate. It all depends on what each one's looking for.
Ascilab don't put to obsolence good - I insist : GOOD -active speakers.
Even with the cost of additionnal amp, they're cheaper than same size Genelec or Neumann, but the latter come from very reputated and established brands, they can play louder and deeper in bass. As for directivity in a typical domestic room,, I think Ascilab has the edge over classic monitors. I'm not talking about The Ones Genelecs, which have the edge over anything else, but at a price and with esthetics which are controverisal (though i like them).
I think we have to wait the more expensive and active versions of Ascilab to talk about reference speakers. Perhaps, or perhaps not, they will get the edge over anything else.
But as for me, like Erin (from ericaudioscorner) I lappreciate a relatively large listening window. Being a low budget guy and equipped with amp, Ascilab can be just fine.
Ascilab don't put to obsolence good - I insist : GOOD -active speakers.
Even with the cost of additionnal amp, they're cheaper than same size Genelec or Neumann, but the latter come from very reputated and established brands, they can play louder and deeper in bass. As for directivity in a typical domestic room,, I think Ascilab has the edge over classic monitors. I'm not talking about The Ones Genelecs, which have the edge over anything else, but at a price and with esthetics which are controverisal (though i like them).
I think we have to wait the more expensive and active versions of Ascilab to talk about reference speakers. Perhaps, or perhaps not, they will get the edge over anything else.
But as for me, like Erin (from ericaudioscorner) I lappreciate a relatively large listening window. Being a low budget guy and equipped with amp, Ascilab can be just fine.
I've converted a few.
As far as the physical part, it's very easy if you don't (make the mistake imo) of putting plate amps into the speaker. Just disconnect the drivers from the passive crossover, and rewire them to speakon connectors mounted into the cabinet. Even a four way speaker needs only one 1-1/16th hole in its cabinet. Keep DSP and amps separate.
Finding room to put plate amps into cabinets can be a pain in the ass, can be hard to ventilate adequately, can be hard to seal up acoustically, and marries the amps and DSP to the speaker. IF you are the kind of person trying to switch passive to active, you're likely to be the kind of person that will continue to experiment with different speakers....and want to use the amps and DSP for other projects. No more plate amps in speakers for me.......if I want to use a plate amp, I mount it in an external box and use it just like any other amp.
As far as creating the crossovers and filters, it comes down to measurement skills.
You can either go the simple route and measure and replicate the existing passive crossovers like @Davey explained, or make acoustic measurements of the individual drivers and learn how to tune a speaker in DIY fashion.
The 'recreate passive method' basically just gives the improvement of multi-amping. May or may not be worth it, depending on drivers' underlying SPL capability.
The 'new tuning from ground up DIY method', should definitely offer improvement after the requisite skill base is learned.
The more 'ways' a speaker has, the greater the expected improvement.
Agree, but there are aspects : if external xover for passive speakers had not any acceptance (though physically explainable), active ones will not, too.
As customer I would want the passive xover been scratched out, an encloser in the cabinet been established for plateamp, and DSP engaged for changes (esp. in respect to Vb and Fres).
As customer I would want the passive xover been scratched out, an encloser in the cabinet been established for plateamp, and DSP engaged for changes (esp. in respect to Vb and Fres).
Vacceo
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That was my hope and it makes a lot of sense. Short-range wifi should have way more than enough bandwidth to send sound, so adjusting delay is something well-implemented already in a lot of devices. Beyond those, plate amps like Hypex could add the wifi module with relative ease. The idea of changing an amp, preamp or processors for a tiny box (something akin to a Primare SC15, or a Buchardt Platin) to plug sources to is just fantastic.
I hope it does not take forever to see it.
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Active speakers, both eternally and externally have been my personal preference for many years. Two overwhelming aspects have led to this preference. Using my current reference speakers and previous reference which I still have. With my current speakers, which are very demanding in that they are inefficient and very low impedance, limits the amount of amplifiers to successfully drive the speaker in purely passive mode. By eliminating the the passive components, the speakers can be driven with a wider range of amplifiers. My previous reference speakers with built in DAC/PRE/AMPS are nice in that the matching of components were done at initial design phase. Eliminating the need of trying to match three different components.
actives are still worthwhile for those of us with desktop systems.
all Ascilab speakers are just physically too big.
if they did a smaller varient of the F6b , around 300mm tall, i would be all over it
all Ascilab speakers are just physically too big.
if they did a smaller varient of the F6b , around 300mm tall, i would be all over it
Both the F6B and C6B are 40cm tall, Asci made a C5B for their domestic market, I will track down its dimensions.
Keith
Keith
I've done the same to my current main 'speakers based on the B&W 801f. I used the Behringer DCX2496 as crossover, preceded by the DEQ2496 for fine equalisation.
I chose to use the original B&W crossover frequencies as firstly, I can expect they would have done sufficient measurement of their drivers to choose those appropriately, and secondly, it avoided a lot of measurements on my side. I did change the crossover slopes to L-R 48dB/octave as the DSP would do that and I couldn't think of any reason not to. Anything more than 24dB/octave isn't practical with passive crossovers, so B&W couldn't have done that even if they'd wanted to.
For amplification, three Behringer A500 amps. The benefit to me of using external electronics is that firstly, any failures can be easily replaced, and secondly, by storing the passive crossover safely, I could return the 'speakers to original passive configuration should I ever want to, especially if I ever decide to sell them. The thing that took the longest was measuring the loudspeakers after the conversion and equalising them flat to +-1dB (pseudo-anechoically and on-axis) As the drivers were well over 30 years old (although I replaced the tweeters with brand new ones still available from B&W at that time) I couldn't rely on them still being to spec, or still pair-matched, so equalised each 'speaker individually. This had the further advantage that I could pair-match them as accurately as I cared to do.
Had them now as my main 'speakers, in every day use for 15 years, and have no desire to change.
S.
Wesseling Audio Lab
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My main builds are analogue active and passive hybrids! I see no need for mid to treble to be active. Woofer connected directly to amplifier.
For 3way the active part is low pass to the woofer and high pass to midrange/tweeter section with a passive low pass to mid and high pass to tweeter.
A four way has an additional active bandpass for mid bass
Avoids large and expensive inductors for low crossover points and the big issue of passive crossover interaction with box impedance and the need for zobels requiring even more large expensive inductors.
I have control of 6 - 24db slopes with a variable Q.
Providing bass alignment is well damped with a smooth roll off, PEQ isn't overly necessary - all bass and mid bass drivers need to be decent quality with preferably a Qts around 0.4 for ported. Of course Boxes will be larger than what can be done with DSP and PEQ etc.
Analogue active Hilbert Transform is in the future for extending low frequencies in a sealed smallish cabinet with a high excursion woofer.
This way the crossover slopes are fixed for each speaker design so the end user has nothing that needs adjusting. A pair of 3 way speakers are paired with 4 channels of amplification. The analogue crossover is inside of a my full function preamp - XP(Crossover preamp)
Lot of work and slow progress but I find active in this way to be very appealing.
For 3way the active part is low pass to the woofer and high pass to midrange/tweeter section with a passive low pass to mid and high pass to tweeter.
A four way has an additional active bandpass for mid bass
Avoids large and expensive inductors for low crossover points and the big issue of passive crossover interaction with box impedance and the need for zobels requiring even more large expensive inductors.
I have control of 6 - 24db slopes with a variable Q.
Providing bass alignment is well damped with a smooth roll off, PEQ isn't overly necessary - all bass and mid bass drivers need to be decent quality with preferably a Qts around 0.4 for ported. Of course Boxes will be larger than what can be done with DSP and PEQ etc.
Analogue active Hilbert Transform is in the future for extending low frequencies in a sealed smallish cabinet with a high excursion woofer.
This way the crossover slopes are fixed for each speaker design so the end user has nothing that needs adjusting. A pair of 3 way speakers are paired with 4 channels of amplification. The analogue crossover is inside of a my full function preamp - XP(Crossover preamp)
Lot of work and slow progress but I find active in this way to be very appealing.
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Buchardt also.
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The other big advantage of actives vs. passives for people who want to enjoy music and do not enjoy feeding their GAS is time savings with actives. No need to research and purchase and possibly (likely) rotate gear around for some "magic" recipe. BIG relief for somebody like me.
For example, when I purchased my actives I just needed to decide on a streamer (easy since my speakers have digital in and I use Roon), and stands (easy since there are model specific very high quality stands for my speakers).
I learned somewhere that men with GAS are really attempting to exercise complete control in an aspect of their life in which they can do so to alleviate anxiety about the discontrol in other aspects of life. They may not have any control over their work life so exercise it via tweaking their hifi systems. I think there is some truth to this. Ultimately I'm not sure if that is healthy.
This does not seem to usually apply to women which is an interesting thing to ponder.
I realize GAS is enjoyed by many in this hobby so they may feel just the opposite to me.
For example, when I purchased my actives I just needed to decide on a streamer (easy since my speakers have digital in and I use Roon), and stands (easy since there are model specific very high quality stands for my speakers).
I learned somewhere that men with GAS are really attempting to exercise complete control in an aspect of their life in which they can do so to alleviate anxiety about the discontrol in other aspects of life. They may not have any control over their work life so exercise it via tweaking their hifi systems. I think there is some truth to this. Ultimately I'm not sure if that is healthy.
This does not seem to usually apply to women which is an interesting thing to ponder.
I realize GAS is enjoyed by many in this hobby so they may feel just the opposite to me.
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Asiclab releases a very good speaker, and it has completely made actives obsolete? LOL.
Anyway, never had a service issue with any active speaker I've owned. Several even survived a house fire. I find actives/powered infinitely easier to connect and get going right out of the box. Never had to update any software on any active speaker I've owned, nor they do they need it to function.
Anyway, never had a service issue with any active speaker I've owned. Several even survived a house fire. I find actives/powered infinitely easier to connect and get going right out of the box. Never had to update any software on any active speaker I've owned, nor they do they need it to function.
They will produce active speakers, just read the road map.
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For me, there isn't any reason to not get active speakers as long as they're small enough to not need significant ventilation for the amps/processor. I CAN see why you'd use an amplifier for something like a subwoofer where you can put out kilowatts. My active PA subwoofer (EV ETX-18SP) has had tons of amp issues because they're packing a lot in such a tiny package.
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