Are active speakers still worthwhile?

[fcracer]

Technically, there are advantages of active deisgns if everything else is equal. The crossover is more precise. Driving each driver with its own amp has advantage in distortion and attack. If looking at the typical bookshelf sized speaker the active will often play lower in the bass. Because it is easier to have a hard cutoff for the bass driver. If comparing the Ascilab to a Neumann, JBL, Kali, etc. with the same size woofer the active version will be typically play lower. The Ascilab low frequencies will start to roll off earlier. If you are crossing over to a sub this might not be as important. Of course the active version can also have EQ to fix problems. Here is the same speaker in active and passive form. I am not familiar with this brand personally. But, I know some people in Europe really like them.

Measurements for speaker Aalto Speakers Aalto 3 Active Pro

www.spinorama.org

Measurements for speaker Aalto Speakers Aalto 3 Passive

www.spinorama.org

It is tough to state active is better than passive because of the design differences between brands and models. Rarely, do you have the exact model like above in active and passive form. But, if all else is equal I would go with the active version.

That’s a very good point that an active setup can more fully utilize the drivers by adjusting output based on set parameters. I recall the KEF subwoofer doing this to enable 20Hz output from a tiny box, albeit at low SPL. Once you turn the volume up, the electronics pull back on the low frequency so that the subwoofer doesn’t self destruct. I also recall some amplifier manufacturer trying to do this with passive setups. I think it was Devialet with something called SAM?

 

[dfuller]

As far as I know, most main monitors in pro studios are still passive.

Nope! Most are active, just with remote amps.


Anyway...

I see major benefits for actives.

One, they're significantly more efficient. Passive crossovers always have insertion loss just by virtue of how they work and the insertion loss increases with how complex the crossover is (hence the attempt to use as simple a crossover as you can get away with). Actives have no crossover between driver and amplifier, so there is no insertion loss. An active crossover can be as complex as you need it to be without worrying about insertion loss.

Two, the crossovers are independent of any electrical behavior of the driver itself - which changes, sometimes significantly, based on how much signal is fed into them.

Three, actives can have significantly better driver protection circuits, which are at best rudimentary.

Four, active crossovers allow for boundary correction (at the very least) to be built directly into the speaker.

Five, because the amps aren't broadband they can be different amounts of power for each way without throwing power away via a series resistor or voltage divider.

 

[kemmler3D]

I guess we'll find out when Ascilab release their actives.

I was going to say exactly this... They've done a passive crossover so good that people are saying active speakers are obsolete... So just wait until those Ascilab folks start messing with FIR and such.

 

[Purité Audio]

I believe it depends upon the design, When I had both ATCs passive and active 40’s here ( same drivers, same enclosure ) I really couldn’t hear much if any difference difference using a Benchmark AHB2 on the passive version.
I believe Asci are going to make an active version of their A6B…
Keith

 

[JohnnyNG]

I was going to say exactly this... They've done a passive crossover so good that people are saying active speakers are obsolete...

Yeah, we were discussing the A6B active and passive almost a year ago in their main thread, really very close.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...re-about-to-launch.54794/page-18#post-2034733

 

[JohnnyNG]

So just wait until those Ascilab folks start messing with FIR and such.

Indeed they have!

AsciLab speakers are about to launch

Our room acoustics brand is called Acousticfuser, and although we currently only manufacture and sell in Korea, you can view various installation examples on our Instagram page. https://www.instagram.com/acousticfuser.kr/ Very cool, I see a lot of curved 2D BAD panels, as far as I know this is...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Frank Dernie]

I am sure actives are potentially better than passives and usually are in practice too, there is no technical reason why they wouldn't be that I know of.

My only problem, as an old bloke using CDs as a main source, is finding a non-computing interface to use them.
I was very impressed by the concept of the Devialet Phantom DSP actives and pre-ordered them but even though I have a CD transport connected to them I have to have phone or computer running to adjust volume so I pretty well never switch them on.

My old system with passive speakers and amp with rotary volume control on the remote is so much ergonomically superior I use it instead 99% of the time.

The Genelec 9320A looks like it would suit me, though it is wired.

 

[DSJR]

I believe it depends upon the design, When I had both ATCs passive and active 40’s here ( same drivers, same enclosure ) I really couldn’t hear much if any difference difference using a Benchmark AHB2 on the passive version.
I believe Asci are going to make an active version of their A6B…
Keith

I'm stunned, Billy Woodman himself proved to me (in engineering considerations as well as demonstration) how much better the active crossovers were in ATCs three way designs at least* (remember, it was now long retired business partner Tim Isaac who did the electronics and apparently started the active 'thing' over here with his designs for Martin Audio (I think it was) and at the time, only supplied passive versions almost under duress by the 90s and only really to domestic users - nothing changes there then! The world was a far larger place before the internet, so no idea I'm afraid what was going on in US and other markets in the 60s and 70s as regards speaker design - we only had the commercial US passive models and hints of JBL larger studio models (passive I believe and usually Crown DC300A driven?) which were too large for domestic consideration.

*I've given chapter and verse about this in other threads and today, it's arguably old hat where properly measuring speakers are concerned as already discussed over and over.

It could be argued that Linn and Naim in the UK, brought out hobbled passive speakers which only really kind-of worked in active (aktiv) form, but despite the usual response oddities in both these maker's speaker systems, going active always opened the sound-field up and better delineated the reproduced mixes to a highly satisfactory state, despite flaws elsewhere.

 

[Purité Audio]

I can only report what I heard, it was interesting because there aren’t that many passive and active versions of the same speaker, the ATC is though a traditional active ie no dsp.
The AsciLAB passive and active versions of their A6B will offer a perfect opportunity to compare.
Keith

 

[AOR]

That’s a very good point that an active setup can more fully utilize the drivers by adjusting output based on set parameters. I recall the KEF subwoofer doing this to enable 20Hz output from a tiny box, albeit at low SPL. Once you turn the volume up, the electronics pull back on the low frequency so that the subwoofer doesn’t self destruct. I also recall some amplifier manufacturer trying to do this with passive setups. I think it was Devialet with something called SAM?

Yep. That's exactly correct. Extra bass boost at low levels, and bass cutting at higher levels. We use it in all of the subwoofers, and to a lesser extent in all the active products.

This approach is certainly not unique to KEF. Any speaker that has "impressive bass for its size, until you turn it up". Is doing the same. It's very common in smaller speakers like portable bluetooth systems, soundbars, smartphones, etc. I would guess that the world has more speakers that employ this tech than don't...

 

[Vacceo]

One area where passives are "better" really more convenient is cabling. You only need to run "speaker" cable to it vs a line level cable (no big deal) and power cable (big deal especially if they are surrounds). In my setup I have the active jbl 708p because it is behind a transparently acoustic screen. Easy for both line level and power cables. The four surround speakers are the passive JBL 705i which just need speaker cable from the amp. Running power to these 4 speakers would be a royal PITA

Surronds are not that terrible, where it gets really tricky is for height speakers. For surrounds, there is always the option to hide the cables behind bookshelves (as you´d also do with passives).

Yep. That's exactly correct. Extra bass boost at low levels, and bass cutting at higher levels. We use it in all of the subwoofers, and to a lesser extent in all the active products.

This approach is certainly not unique to KEF. Any speaker that has "impressive bass for its size, until you turn it up". Is doing the same. It's very common in smaller speakers like portable bluetooth systems, soundbars, smartphones, etc. I would guess that the world has more speakers that employ this tech than don't...

We have a pair of LS50 WII as daily drivers in our small living room. They are trully all terrain speakers that behave very well for both music and TV (we use them as soundbar) along with a KC62. Installing them was super easy, cable management aside (due to the furniture, but that would have been an issue with passives too).

Having tried the passive LS50 Meta, I can certainly attest that usability aside (having an earc connection, along with SPDIF and a streamer is super convenient), the difference is they do not reach as low as their active counterparts. The only link missing is, perhaps, the capacity to turn them into a multichannel system, which I guess you have probably thought of or experimented already.

On the subwoofer, I can also confirm that yes, you get infrasonics from the KC62, as I have tried them with the "infamous" Edge of Tomorrow intro. Sure, they will not be massive and will not rattle your ribcage, but you get them, which for a 6 inch dual sub is not a small thing.

 

[Mike123]

Power cable are also tend to be thicker and heavier and stiffer than speaker or line level cables.

This is unlikely . Speaker cables are typically 2.5 mm2 or more. A 0.75 mm2 power cable is sufficient to power one active speaker.

 

[Petrushka]

In ten years, speakers will be ruler flat, at reasonable prices.

 

[sigbergaudio]

I am sure actives are potentially better than passives and usually are in practice too, there is no technical reason why they wouldn't be that I know of.

My only problem, as an old bloke using CDs as a main source, is finding a non-computing interface to use them.

Many (most?) active speakers have XLR/RCA inputs, it's not any weirder or more difficult than having a separate power amplifier (as opposed to having an integrated amp).

 

[levimax]

This is unlikely . Speaker cables are typically 2.5 mm2 or more. A 0.75 mm2 power cable is sufficient to power one active speaker.

In the US at least, 16 gauge is the smallest wire you can use in an extension cord, which has a diameter of 1.29 mm and you would need 3 insulated conductors plus the outside insulation. There are also abrasion and other requirments for extension cords that don't apply to speaker cables. I have 12 gauge speaker cables that are more flexible and smaller than 16 gauge extension cords. In addition US electrical codes don't allow extension cords to be used inside walls or ceilings but speaker cable can be. Maybe it is different in Europe but in the US running extension cords around a room for a MC active system is difficult and usually unsightly.

 

[Esprit]

My only problem, as an old bloke using CDs as a main source, is finding a non-computing interface to use them.

A normal preamp?
I have been using active speakers for over 10 years, when I also used the CD player I had a Bryston (I have to learn to sell since it gathers dust ...), later switching to DACs I removed the pre and the DAC is connected directly to the speakers.

If I decided to listen to CDs again, I would just need a transport to connect to the DAC.

 

[Esprit]

Maybe it is different in Europe but in the US running extension cords around a room for a MC active system is difficult and usually unsightly

For power, it is sufficient to have a power outlet nearby, otherwise an external conduit.
The same applies to signal cables.
Power and signal cables cannot travel together in the same corrugated tube inside the wall (no cable can pass inside the wall without being in the corrugated tube), but it is sufficient that each one passes in its own corrugated tube.

 

[w277]

... I removed the pre and the DAC is connected directly to the speakers...

I did the same and works perfectly fine
DAC >> crossover >> amps >> loudspeaker

Main disadvantages of active systems are IMHO (i) the cost for the additional amps (if external) or (ii) the loudspeakers are more expensive.

 

[kyuu]

Power and signal cables cannot travel together in the same corrugated tube inside the wall (no cable can pass inside the wall without being in the corrugated tube), but it is sufficient that each one passes in its own corrugated tube.

Well in that case it's typically easier to run power in the U.S. In many jurisdictions you can simply run Romex and not have to worry about "corrugated tube" (is that the same as what we commonly refer to as smurf tube?). Although I think there are some jurisdictions that mandate power cabling be in metal conduit.

 

[Davey]

However, with modern science-based speaker designs, we can see even affordable speakers like the C6B providing very linear frequency performance. I'm wondering how active speakers will differentiate and overcome some of their inherent challenges, namely: 1. Serviceability if the amplifier inside goes bad; 2. Hassle of powering two speakers; 3. Keeping software updated to keep them running.

I'm sure I'm missing some key benefits of active speakers, so I put this out there with the intent of learning. I always assumed my "end game" speaker setup would be active, but now I'm not sure.

None of those three things are inherent to "active" speakers.

Any conventional speaker system.....no matter how well designed.....can (potentially) be improved by converting to active.
Or, using the same drivers, restarting the design process with a new active configuration.