Interesting stuff as always,
http://archimago.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/measurements-what-does-us500watt-stereo.html
Keith
http://archimago.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/measurements-what-does-us500watt-stereo.html
Keith
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Archimago strikes again
- Thread starter Purité Audio
- Start date
That was a great read, thanks Keith .
Conducting and then Publishing measurements like those is a really helpful thing to do. ( nod wink, hint...
)
From my dealings in high end audio I can say the distance between the journalists/hifi press and the manufacturers / distribution network etc is as thin as cigarette paper.
The magazines/online review sites basically levees a tax ( advitising ) and in return promotes the industry and individual companies.
It's a racket.
Conducting and then Publishing measurements like those is a really helpful thing to do. ( nod wink, hint...
)From my dealings in high end audio I can say the distance between the journalists/hifi press and the manufacturers / distribution network etc is as thin as cigarette paper.
The magazines/online review sites basically levees a tax ( advitising ) and in return promotes the industry and individual companies.
It's a racket.
dallasjustice
Major Contributor
That emachines amp is clearly well designed/made! It's really hard to find measurements for Virus gear. I'm glad Archi posted these.
But here are the economic illiterate audiophile talking points:
1. But Virus is hand made.
2. And it's made in Denmark.
3. Virus pays his workers more money.
4. Virus uses more expensive parts.
Anyone see a theme developing here?
1. Value is determined by cost of production.
2. The consumer has no say in what something is actually worth.
3. Performance is totally irrelevant.
4. The only testing needed is a listening session.
This is the rhetoric for fools and con-men informed by Karl Marx.
But here are the economic illiterate audiophile talking points:
1. But Virus is hand made.
2. And it's made in Denmark.
3. Virus pays his workers more money.
4. Virus uses more expensive parts.
Anyone see a theme developing here?
1. Value is determined by cost of production.
2. The consumer has no say in what something is actually worth.
3. Performance is totally irrelevant.
4. The only testing needed is a listening session.
This is the rhetoric for fools and con-men informed by Karl Marx.
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There is one important aspect that is missing in his write-up: reliability. I seriously worry about this factor because amplifiers are nasty, heavy beasts with tons of high-current circuits. When I buy an amp of this class, I don't want to even think about sending it in for repair. I like to buy from a local dealer and have them deal with picking up and dealing with the weight. And at any rate, the quality of components needs to be looked at.
I have no defense for Vitus amplifier other than unanswered question of its construction quality. I just searched for pictures of its guts but only found low resolution images. What is there is exceptionally clean and high-end. Emotiva on the other hand is quite utilitarian. I don't know what random brand caps, reject parts, etc. they may have used.
I have no defense for Vitus amplifier other than unanswered question of its construction quality. I just searched for pictures of its guts but only found low resolution images. What is there is exceptionally clean and high-end. Emotiva on the other hand is quite utilitarian. I don't know what random brand caps, reject parts, etc. they may have used.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Then there is the other tax: free gear on "long term loan".
The conflict of interest is so massive I pretty much ignore most of the subjective assessments, especially if the product is more expensive.
Yes I agree, it's protecting mutual intrests, the industry works hand in hand ( sometimes literally) in helping promote the brands.. The customers are irrelevant in as much as it's all about promoting the high end. It's like the hifi media are football club magazines but the club is the whole industry.
Also anyone brave enough to question this, to criticise from within the industry will often be met with a deal of unpleasantness from the ' high end collective ' desperate to protect the con.
It's a cult lol
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Michael Fremer's dispute with Arthur Salvatore is amazing, both in the vitriol and how much Fremer lets slip on how things work from the inside.
Iv delt with a few companies over the last 3 years , what I learnt frankly blew me away.
Umm...not sure emotive use random caps, reject parts etc...,
https://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/xpa-1#
If you click on the link they show insides of every product I think, seems to use reliable known components but not boutique parts ( since when did we think boutique parts were actually superior?)
Looks OK to me .
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watchnerd
Grand Contributor
I've always found "Reviewing the Reviewers" to be insightful:
http://www.high-endaudio.com/reviewers.html
I have looked on their site and the part descriptions are not visible. I searched around and did find some pictures that shows the capacitor branding or lack thereof. In their power supply section they use "seacon" capacitors which are some random crap capacitors. In the rest they don't even have any brand name on them or some random designation.
Looking further failures of those caps even in warranty period exist: http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/140747/all-capacitors-leaking-on-emotiva-psu
"I've just opened the top of my XPA-2 amplifier and had a huge surprise: it seems like almost ALL of the caps are leaking from the bottom. Not just the main PSU caps, but smaller ones on PSU PCB and also on amp PCBs look suspicious. It seems like smaller caps are glued to the pcb, like a kind of silicone or rubber to the touch, although it is really just a thin layer. I really can't say if that is glue or leaked electrolyte.
Just a few of the mian PSU caps are a bit bulged on top, but no other that I can see without dismounting the whole thing. I really can't see how they are seated, since I have no view of their bottom.
Even jumpers seem "rusted"!!! Funny thing is, the 2 "rusted" jumpers are on each of the 2 amp PCBs and are in perfect symmetry to each other. Thought maybe originally they had some kind of insulation and got damaged during assembly, but it is unlikely.
This unit has never been exposed to any kind of excessive heat. It has been, however, under my receiver for about one yr, but there is over an inch between them, and amp case or top was never hot.
This amp powers a pair of Philharmonic 3's and sound is absolutely perfect. No difference or complain at all, high or low volume.
I bought this unit precisely 3 yrs ago, so it is still under warranty. However, I am far from USA right now, and shipping a package this size would cost a loooooot of money.
I work with electronics and I have never seen all caps bad like this, except during cap plague, which I believe is finished and on equipment exposed to excessive heat. What do you think, have you seen something like this before?"
Notice how the top of the capacitors (the round black cylinders) has expanded up showing electrolytic expansion through heating or other factors:
I am not saying to go and buy boutique products but step up and buy something that is not entirely built to a price point from reliability point of view. Just because it looks like any other beefy amplifier doesn't mean it has the same attention to design.
Here is another picture I find of the capacitors in Emotiva:
Look at at the messy assembly of the PCB with heaven knows what goop left on the PCB.
Look at at the messy assembly of the PCB with heaven knows what goop left on the PCB.
Fair enough, there is bennic parts in the link I posted..
Here is a random picture of Vitas amplifier I found which shows the capacitor branding:
The marking says EPCOS which is a brand name of Japanese company TDK. There are proper specs for the caps, testing, etc.
Of course the PCB itself is work of art.
The marking says EPCOS which is a brand name of Japanese company TDK. There are proper specs for the caps, testing, etc.
Of course the PCB itself is work of art.
Somebody empty their Hoover in thereHere is another picture I find of the capacitors in Emotiva:
Look at at the messy assembly of the PCB with heaven knows what goop left on the PCB.
Iv opened gear 20 years old that did not have that dust inside.
I think sal has a emotiva dac, maybe he can open it up so we can take a look inside?
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While I'm all for good design and construction, that isn't enough to justify the Vitus. I could buy a new Emotiva every 3 years and not live long enough to spend what the Vitus costs.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Also, given how good Class D is these days, what's the point of owning a big, heavy, hot Class A/AB amp these days at all?
There is high aggravation factor when something fails. While I am not promoting the Vitus, I like to encourage excellence in engineering rather than how cheap something can be made.
From my expirance, sticking to companies local to you, that at least have their factory in country is a great benefit.
Asking ones self 'what happens when this goes wrong' is very sensible.
