Arcam AVR10 Review

[Objectivist01]

Is there actually an AVR existing on this planet, that one would generally be happy enough to run, for 2 channel audio (along side multichannel) ?.

Despite lot of subjective reviews I read on my old Marantz sr 8500 when I got it, my arcam integrated which costs Half of it sounded better. Now after reading the reviews here I think I am not yet exposed to a quality device. I think when THX and drop comes with an integrated amp or power amp that should be the one I should upgrade to.

 

[peng]

Glad I dodged a bullet there. I almost bought one. The real question is going to be the X8500H and X6700H

We should be able to predict reliably that those two will measure about the same on the DAC part at up to 1.5 V, may be up to 1.7 V or so for the X8500H because the power amp section shouldn't clip as early as the X3600H. The AVR-X8500 will measure much better at 2 V or above in preamp mode.

 

[Poseidons Voice]

This is headless panther performance . Not “I’m not sure” panther performance

We seem to be sure about what this unit is and it certainly isn’t hifi in any respect!

Best,
Anand.

 

[peng]

I'm beginning to think the whole AVR field is hampered by licensing requirements enough, and you get enough bad products we should all just say no. Why didn't this get the headless panther?

And for $2500..................just an insult of a product really.

More insulting is the entire Dolby and DTS monopoly on standards has helped cause this while promising ever higher audio delights. I've had several car audio units that beat this performance.

Maybe the next "big advance" in multi-channel formatting should be D(olby)FU. It requires 17.11.2.1 channels. 17 surround channels, 11 height channels, 2 sub channels, and one super low frequency channel for 10 hz and below. The .1 channel will be pitched to cause loss of bladder control with all official 17.11.2.1 content which is where the FU comes in. The competitor DTS-YU will have mono sound over 42.1 channels for the ultimate amorphous mono sound. The .1 will cover only the lowest 5 hz to give that ultimate illusion of a big space.

There is little evidence for that, because even the $999 Denon did much better especially at pre-out level below 1.5 V. The difference in licensing fees between the two seems to be mainly in their REQ, i.e. much lower for Audyssey that it is for Dirac Live but $1,500 difference for much worse performance in about every measurements except may be cross talk?

 

[peng]

I think when THX and drop comes with an integrated amp or power amp that should be the one I should upgrade to.

If you are keen on good/better bench measurements on such device of your choice, you may want to wait until you see measurements on such integrated or separate preamp/power amp first to make sure they would in fact beat the $1099 Denon AVR or at least Yamaha's WXA50 first. So far on the DAC/preout, that "cheap" AVR is ranking higher (for two channel use, i.e. with FL/FR amps disconnected) than some integrated, including the much more expensive AR models, and its amp section measured better than the Outlaw M2200, a real separate power amp, in fact a monobock so as real as it can be.

 

[Joachim Herbert]

Another bad joke.

 

[Dj7675]

I was close to buying the 390 and the AVR30 when I replaced my NAD T758. It is so easy to assume that a brand’s reputation or price will correlate with performance.In particular if you read various “reviews” that offer zero objective performance tests. With the tests so far it seems:
-There are no state of the art measuring home theater pre/pro’s or AVRs relative to 2 channel seperates
-The AV Pre/Pros are very expensive relative to performance.
-There are some good measuring receivers (Denon x3600 and up, Anthem MRX1120) and relative to their price are fantastic values when you consider all they are offering.
-Strange that there has not yet been a good measuring Dirac Receiver
I think one of the most important benefit to @amirm providing these detailed measurements is finding where they perform best. Some of the receivers/ AV Pre/Pros may not perform well at 2V/4V but do perform at least ok at other levels. This is really helpful information that consumers can use for example if they want to work with the gear they may already own, or when shopping for new gear to get the most out of it. For example I saw someone that used an Outlaw 5000 which I believe requires about 1V to fully drive it with an NAD T758v3. By doing so, you bypass the very poor amps in the receiver and keep the output below 1V so the DAC performance is in the ok range. Without such measurements we would all be in the dark.
Now what we need are more Denon/Marantz units measured (4500/6500/8500).

 

[Brian6751]

It seems the more effective the included room correction is, the more the manufacturer slacks on the hardware performance. The question is, after room correction, can you HEAR the hardware deficiencies? I know that should not be an excuse but if you think about room correction costs eating into hardware budgets, maybe it is? Manufacturers are constantly cramming more and more tech into these things while trying to keep the costs down and have them sound good. It's a messy balance.

It also seems possible that Sound United is eating everyone else' lunch as far as sales making it difficult for other brands to invest in performance updates. This does not create a competitive market and therefore performance leaps dont happen

 

[thefsb]

Is there actually an AVR existing on this planet, that one would generally be happy enough to run, for 2 channel audio (along side multichannel) ?.

This question should be the title of a pinned thread that collects together the best compromises available.

 

[Dj7675]

Glad I dodged a bullet there. I almost bought one. The real question is going to be the X8500H and X6700H

I have been planning on sending in an X8500 when we go on vacation... but then COVID19 happened and we have been home using it in our theater almost every day. As soon as we do leave to our vacation home, I will be sending in the X8500... I am optimistic that it may break the 100 SINAD barrier. But who knows.

 

[Absolute]

That's a proper shitbox right there, kids!

 

[Dmi3i]

it's some kind of shame. sell it in 2020. There are many budget solutions for a good output amplifier. Arcam engineers are probably ashamed)

 

[Dimifoot]

Strange that there has not yet been a good measuring Dirac Receiver

The Emotiva XMC-1 and the Monoprice. If the RMC-1 gets Dirac also, it will be 3 Dirac in the top 5.

Is there actually an AVR existing on this planet, that one would generally be happy enough to run, for 2 channel audio (along side multichannel) ?.

You can be sure for the opposite: there is no 2-channel dac that can play multichannel music, and never will be

 

[gparaskevas]

R.I.P. Arcam.
Next!

 

[SimpleTheater]

Denon's Youtube channel accidentally leaked out their 8K lineup. The X6700H will have Atmos Height Virtualization. There will probably be an X8500HA with the 8K upgrade built in.

While its nice to know the last Denon did well on the test bench, the shear amount of garbage coming out of the AVR market has me quite shy to buying anything until @amirm tests it. Not many places will let you buy, let it be opened and tested by another person, and return if the measurements are garbage, but that is exactly what I now require based on these AVR results.

I'm literally buying NOTHING that isn't first tested.

 

[Sheriff1972]

I am so glad Audio Science exists, and is updated with new content regularly. Will send a small donation as a mark of my gratitude
Helping to keep manufacturers honest....

What a result for Arcam...

 

[GXAlan]

We should be able to predict reliably that those two will measure about the same on the DAC part at up to 1.5 V, may be up to 1.7 V or so for the X8500H because the power amp section shouldn't clip as early as the X3600H. The AVR-X8500 will measure much better at 2 V or above in preamp mode.

We would hope so. The Audio.com.pl measurements don't show big differences between the X8500 and lower end amps.

Use Google Translate
https://audio.com.pl/testy/kino-domowe/wzmacniacze-a-v/2975-denon-avc-x8500h
1w SNR 80
Dynamic Range 103

vs.

Marantz NR1510
https://audio.com.pl/testy/kino-domowe/amplitunery-av/3147-marantz-nr1510#laboratory
1W SNR 83
Dynamic Range 102

Marantz SR5011
https://audio.com.pl/testy/kino-domowe/amplitunery-av/2718-marantz-sr5011#laboratory
1W SNR 78
Dynamic Range 99

But hard to know how they're measuring those numbers.

 

[GXAlan]

The difference in licensing fees between the two seems to be mainly in their REQ, i.e. much lower for Audyssey that it is for Dirac Live

Do we actually know that? Many of the Audyssey patents were bought outright by Sound United, so that takes away per unit licensing fees but there may very well be some time before they have recovered their ROI.

 

[starfly]

And...... another one bites the dust.

I'm tempted to send in my Yamaha A2070 to see if it would measure better than the A1080 that was measured here earlier. It supposedly has a better DAC and a slightly beefier amp. And supposedly the A20xx/A30xx series are built to a higher standard than everything else. But, I don't want to live without my only source for music right now Maybe someday.

 

[Promit]

Another escapee from Arcam Asylum!

... I’ve just been waiting to say that.