Arcam A25 Background Noise

[Alexx]

Hi everyone.

I'm also trying to ask you if anyone has the Arcam A25 integrated amplifier.

It just arrived. I connected it, but I hear a background noise on the speakers, like a "FFFFF" hiss, if I turn the volume all the way up. This noise can be heard at least 4 meters away and gets very loud.

It happens on every source, regardless of whether it's connected or not; the only one that doesn't make any noise is the Bluetooth input.

If I press the "Mute" button on the remote, I no longer hear the noise (it's normal, it mutes the speakers).

It's not interference, etc. I've tried every possible test, as if it were an internal filtering issue that's being amplified.

I connected the Wiim Vibelink, and at maximum volume it's completely silent (I also had Nad 399-Rega Elicit MK5s and they were perfect).

Does anyone have the same amplifier to check? For me, this is absolutely not normal (it could happen on 40-year-old devices).

Support tells me it's external interference??? But that's impossible.

Also, if I change the source from Analog 1-2-3, etc., it makes a noise like an electrical discharge for about two seconds and then goes away.

Thanks in advance.

 

[MAB]

Hi everyone.

I'm also trying to ask you if anyone has the Arcam A25 integrated amplifier.

It just arrived. I connected it, but I hear a background noise on the speakers, like a "FFFFF" hiss, if I turn the volume all the way up. This noise can be heard at least 4 meters away and gets very loud.

It happens on every source, regardless of whether it's connected or not; the only one that doesn't make any noise is the Bluetooth input.

If I press the "Mute" button on the remote, I no longer hear the noise (it's normal, it mutes the speakers).

It's not interference, etc. I've tried every possible test, as if it were an internal filtering issue that's being amplified.

I connected the Wiim Vibelink, and at maximum volume it's completely silent (I also had Nad 399-Rega Elicit MK5s and they were perfect).

Does anyone have the same amplifier to check? For me, this is absolutely not normal (it could happen on 40-year-old devices).

Support tells me it's external interference??? But that's impossible.

Also, if I change the source from Analog 1-2-3, etc., it makes a noise like an electrical discharge for about two seconds and then goes away.

Thanks in advance.

The full volume noise was commented on in the Stereophile review:

ARCAM Radia A25 integrated amplifier Measurements Page 1 | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements I performed a full set of measurements on the ARCAM A25 using my Audio Precision SYS2722 system. The amplifier is specified as having a maximum output power of 100Wpc into 8 ohms; I preconditioned the A25 before the measurements by following the CEA's recommendation of...

www.stereophile.com

"The wideband, unweighted signal/noise ratio, taken with the unbalanced input shorted to ground and the volume control set to its maximum, was an okay 62.1dB ref. 2.83V, which is equivalent to 1W into 8 ohms, in both channels. This ratio improved to 67.6dB when the measurement bandwidth was restricted to the audioband, and to 70.4dB when A-weighted. Repeating the S/N ratio measurements with the volume control set to –20dB increased the S/N ratios by 18dB."

"Overall, the ARCAM A25's measured performance was excellent. It offers extraordinarily low distortion from its line, phono, and digital inputs, and low noise provided the volume control is not used above a setting of –12dB or so."

TBH, despite JA's accolades on the distortion, digital, and phono performance, the hiss seems out of control. Worse than an AIWA A22 micro-component from the '70s using a Hitachi IC amp.

If you don't use the volume at max gain, it may not be audible. That being said, this is an odd issue that JA spent some time on in the review. If you find it intolerable, don't hesitate to send it back. There is nothing uniquely good about this unit that makes it stand out from other products, even cheaper ones.

 

[Alexx]

@MAB
Thanks so much for the link.

Wow, that's true! I thought it was a defective unit.

I have to say, I was a bit optimistic in my review, because even without the volume turned up, the amplifier is still noisy. Considering that I wanted to use it with the processor input at a fixed volume of at least 70% (like a power amp), this noise is even more present.

It's a shame because I really like the sound quality. I don't think it can be fixed if it was designed that way.

Using it this way, what problems could it have? A loss of detail covered by background noise?
Thanks a lot, see you soon.

 

[MAB]

@MAB
Thanks so much for the link.

Wow, that's true! I thought it was a defective unit.

I have to say, I was a bit optimistic in my review, because even without the volume turned up, the amplifier is still noisy. Considering that I wanted to use it with the processor input at a fixed volume of at least 70% (like a power amp), this noise is even more present.

It's a shame because I really like the sound quality. I don't think it can be fixed if it was designed that way.

Using it this way, what problems could it have? A loss of detail covered by background noise?
Thanks a lot, see you soon.

Just noise.
If audible, not good.
If your normal listening volume is well below the maximum settings where the noise is apparent, then no problems at all except maybe in quiet passages at elevated volume.
Human-detectable aspects of sound quality are frequency response, noise, and distortion performance. This Arcam is marginal for one of the three.

 

[Alexx]

Okay, thanks.

The dealer replied, however, saying that a little "FFFFFF" noise might be okay. What's not good is that the Bluetooth input is silent (as they should be on the other inputs).

This makes him think there's a problem with the device.

He'll send me a replacement next week. If it's better, I'll definitely keep it, because I really like the audio quality, and it's also aesthetically well-made.

Thanks a lot, I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[MAB]

Okay, thanks.

The dealer replied, however, saying that a little "FFFFFF" noise might be okay. What's not good is that the Bluetooth input is silent (as they should be on the other inputs).

This makes him think there's a problem with the device.

He'll send me a replacement next week. If it's better, I'll definitely keep it, because I really like the audio quality, and it's also aesthetically well-made.

Thanks a lot, I'll let you know how it goes.

Good luck with the replacement. Keep us posted.
If the second unit is the same, it might be time to look at other options. There are many high performing integrated amps at or below this price.

 

[Alexx]

I'm afraid they're all like this...up to 55% they're quite quiet, but when you increase the volume to maximum, the noise becomes noticeable (I used it at 80% because I used it as a power amp).

The courier should arrive tomorrow to pick it up. If the seller also confirms it's "normal," I'll see if I can consider something else.

I paid €1,230 for it, brand new and in its original packaging; it was on sale.

What other interesting alternatives might I have?
Thank you very much.

 

[Mike_Trueman]

Is this problem related to class A and class A/B amplifiers or is this a bad product?

 

[AnalogSteph]

I've been doing The Maff[tm] based on JA's measurements, and it would appear that equivalent input noise for this amp comes out to about 5 µV(A), which means 106 dB(A) referred to 1 Vrms of input or 112 dB(A) referred to 2 Vrms. (Plus, residual output noise floor must be <110 µV(A).) That strikes me as perfectly fine in the realm of high-level sources. The behavior observed also is entirely normal for an electronic volume (PGA) kind of deal.

If the second unit is the same, your problem is input level being too low, i.e. a gain staging issue.

You should not normally need a gain setting as high as 80, which if JA is right with his 0.5 dB steps would amount to 35.1 dB of gain. (Step size is likely to grow towards the bottom end eventually, or else volume control range would be quite insufficient.) Assuming a DAC that can dish out 2 Vrms max, required gain to hit the specified 100 W into 8 ohms would only be 23 dB.

I guess the actual problem would have hit you right on the nose if you had bought a power amp instead.

I will admit that the traditionally constructed kind of integrated amp that can hit rated dynamic range at full input sensitivity holds an advantage in this kind of scenario.

 

[Alexx]

@Mike_Trueman:

I don't think it's particularly related to Class A-B-G amplifiers; perhaps they're more sensitive to this power filtering problem than Class D amplifiers, which may have less of it.

I also had a Reega Elicit Mk5, at maximum volume (with no signal), it was very quiet, sure, some background "hiss" could be heard, but not at these levels, while the NAD C399, at maximum volume, seemed to be turned off, no noise at all!

@AnalogSteph:
I discovered the problem was using the Arcam in a way that wasn't entirely correct, let me explain.
This device, on one of the three analog inputs, has the option of setting the input as a "processor," and you can set the volume to a fixed level, as if it were a power amplifier.

I had set the volume to almost the maximum (80% of the power) using the Wiim Ultra as a preamp with variable volume., once the music stopped, I noticed a noticeable "hiss" in the speakers.

Next, I set the Wiim Ultra to a fixed volume of 2 Vrms, connecting it to the Arcam's RCA input, using the Arcam as a traditional integrated.

This way, the "hiss" is inaudible, even testing without a signal, I noticed that it becomes noticeable after 55% of the volume (Arcam shows the percentage on the display), up to an even higher 80%, and definitely noticeable at maximum volume 99%

In this configuration, the problem becomes insignificant, i can still use the Wiim, but no longer as a pre-amplifier, but as a multi-switch source (to which I also connect CD Players, TV, etc.) while still being able to use the equalizer and various accessories, i only lose the subwoofer's crossover, but that's not a problem; I can adjust it from the panel behind the subwoofer.

The very helpful dealer sent me a return label to verify whether the "hiss" at maximum volume is normal or is too loud, indicating a minor defect.

If it's normal, he'll send it back to me; if there's a problem, he'll send me another amplifier directly.

I'll send it back tomorrow, Tuesday at the latest, and wait for his response.

I'll let you know how it goes; sorry for the long post.
Thank you so much for your help.

 

[Nopiano]

I wonder if the recently announced + (plus) versions of the A25 (and the lesser A5 and A15 versions) have been improved on this metric? It’s unusual to get a ‘mark two’ in just a couple of years, so my guess is either the design was defective or a significant component is no longer made.

 

[gold-sunset]

Could the noise you hear when switching sources be due to the class G amplifier technology?

 

[AnalogSteph]

Could the noise you hear when switching sources be due to the class G amplifier technology?

No. The only characteristic of interest relating to the power amplifier stage is its voltage gain. This is all related to the preamp stage. I bet there's a bog standard Renesas R2S-something or other electronic volume / input switching / tone control IC in there, much like you'll find in any standard AVR.

 

[Alexx]

Here I am.

I don't think the noise is due to the "G" rating, so Italian support told me. Since I bought the device in Germany, they didn't offer assistance or a warranty (absurd), so I had to send it back to Germany. The dealer was very kind and organized everything himself, using UPS.

In Italy, they told me it could be due to the type of filter the Arcam A25 uses on the power supply, and suggested replacing it with an identical one in unopened factory packaging.

The problem could recur, and that means it's not defective or faulty, but rather that it's not perfectly matched to my home's power supply (each device has very slight differences in the power filter). If the background noise persists, the only solution is to change the amplifier brand.

Here are some models I've had:

The Rotel 1592 MK2, even at maximum volume with no input signal, made no noise at all (it seemed off). The same goes for the NAD 399 and Wiim Vibelink.

The Rega Elicit MK5, at maximum volume (even slightly less), made a slight hiss, but only a small amount...

The Audiolab 9000A is comparable to the Rega.

The Arcam A25 makes a really loud noise, almost inaudible up to 50% volume, but it increases significantly if you turn the volume up.... At maximum "99%" it makes a noise that can be heard over 4 meters away!

It's true that it wouldn't be a problem; it would be impossible to listen to it at maximum volume with music.

As for the noise when I change sources, it's like a series of "beeps." It makes 5-6 for a second and then stops, as if impulses are being sent to a processor to change sources. Is this normal? I don't know, but anyone could tell me, but I don't think it affects the sound quality and it's negligible.

No other amplifier had this noise; the NAD 399 did a little, but it was just a single, fast "Tik."

I should receive the replacement unit this weekend. If it keeps making it, it'll be quite annoying, and I'll have to decide. The good thing is that I paid €1299 for it on sale (it's over €1700 on list), so maybe that will put me off keeping it.

Otherwise, I was thinking of going straight for an Audiolab 9000P or Rotel 1582 MK2 power amplifier driven by the Wiim Ultra (but I see audiophile power amplifiers as more restrictive and less resalable), but before I consider replacing them, I need to see how this other one they're sending me performs.
I'll let you know, see you soon.

 

[Roland68]

Here I am.

I don't think the noise is due to the "G" rating, so Italian support told me. Since I bought the device in Germany, they didn't offer assistance or a warranty (absurd), so I had to send it back to Germany. The dealer was very kind and organized everything himself, using UPS.

In Italy, they told me it could be due to the type of filter the Arcam A25 uses on the power supply, and suggested replacing it with an identical one in unopened factory packaging.

The problem could recur, and that means it's not defective or faulty, but rather that it's not perfectly matched to my home's power supply (each device has very slight differences in the power filter). If the background noise persists, the only solution is to change the amplifier brand.

Here are some models I've had:

The Rotel 1592 MK2, even at maximum volume with no input signal, made no noise at all (it seemed off). The same goes for the NAD 399 and Wiim Vibelink.

The Rega Elicit MK5, at maximum volume (even slightly less), made a slight hiss, but only a small amount...

The Audiolab 9000A is comparable to the Rega.

The Arcam A25 makes a really loud noise, almost inaudible up to 50% volume, but it increases significantly if you turn the volume up.... At maximum "99%" it makes a noise that can be heard over 4 meters away!

It's true that it wouldn't be a problem; it would be impossible to listen to it at maximum volume with music.

As for the noise when I change sources, it's like a series of "beeps." It makes 5-6 for a second and then stops, as if impulses are being sent to a processor to change sources. Is this normal? I don't know, but anyone could tell me, but I don't think it affects the sound quality and it's negligible.

No other amplifier had this noise; the NAD 399 did a little, but it was just a single, fast "Tik."

I should receive the replacement unit this weekend. If it keeps making it, it'll be quite annoying, and I'll have to decide. The good thing is that I paid €1299 for it on sale (it's over €1700 on list), so maybe that will put me off keeping it.

Otherwise, I was thinking of going straight for an Audiolab 9000P or Rotel 1582 MK2 power amplifier driven by the Wiim Ultra (but I see audiophile power amplifiers as more restrictive and less resalable), but before I consider replacing them, I need to see how this other one they're sending me performs.
I'll let you know, see you soon.

I was a little surprised to read about filters and power supplies, only to see a transformer and not a switching power supply. A company like Arcam should be able to handle a transformer-based power supply.

Depending on what inputs you need, you could try a Sabaj A30a. There are countless people who have retired their multi-thousand-euro integrated amplifiers because of the A30a. The performance should be just as high or higher.
Even in my desktop setup with the Elac DBR62, it was completely inaudible; it was just too big for my desk in the long run.

 

[RoA]

Arcam SA20 user. Predecessor, Class G also. The only noise I can hear on my 91db/w efficient speakers is a very quiet hiss, audible from around 15cm from the tweeter. Any further, nada. Internal layout, whilst similar, is different so clearly there was some work done to get a little more power/gain.

Great sounding integrated.

 

[Alexx]

@RoA
I absolutely agree, the sound of this integrated amp is fabulous.

I don't know if it's a perfect match with the Monitor Audio Studio 89 speakers or simply the Arcam's good quality, but I'm really happy with it.

For just over €1200, I couldn't have asked for anything better.

Out of curiosity, does the noise increase if I turn the volume up to 80% or all the way up, with no signal? mine made a loud noise at max, audible from a long distance away.

They're sending me that one back today, hopefully it doesn't have that noticeable noise.
Thank you so much.

 

[Alexx]

I'll update you.

The second unit I received was the same, if not worse...

I don't want to be too picky, but I'm used to the Rotel 1592MK2 being completely silent even at maximum volume, and the Nad C399 being the same, so having a unit that creates this hiss doesn't sit well with me at all!

I returned this one too, but now I'm not sure whether to get the updated A25+ model, where they replaced the power supply, filtering system, and transformer.

Perhaps they should have fixed this issue?

I'm considering it; I don't want to buy another unit and have similar problems; it would be very complicated to have to return it to the dealer for a third time (the dealer is very kind and helpful, by the way).

I have to decide in the next few days. I have an option of going back to the old brands I've already used, at least I'm sure they're good. The only problem is that they cost me about €500 more than the new Arcam A25+, and I'm on a tight budget (the new Arcam was quoted at €1,490 instead of €1,990).
See you soon, and thank you.

 

[Alexx]

After almost a month, I received my refund (I had to contact PayPal support).

I'm back to square one, but I think I'll abandon the Arcam brand, also because buying in Europe offers no warranty in Italy, and the Italian price is pure madness (€2,000 for the A25+).

I'm considering other solutions, but it's complicated to do everything online and not be able to listen in hi-fi stores.

I'm considering a Rotel 1592 MK2, but for now, I'm waiting for Black Friday; maybe there will be some extra discounts...

We'll keep you updated. Best regards, everyone!