Apple's new M1 Mac Mini as source (misses out on silent operation)

[bluefuzz]

Is the new M1 Mac Mini noticeably quieter than the Intel Mac Mini in near-field use?

I've had an M1 Mac Mini for a couple of months. I haven't stressed it a lot but I do use it routinely for graphic design, image processing, 3D rendering and other mildly strenuous tasks. I haven't heard the fan come on once. Totally silent. The case never gets noticebly warmer than ambient room temperature. That said, an M1 Mac is massive overkill for a simple streaming source. Just get a Raspberry Pi.

 

[mononoaware]

I haven't heard the fan come on once. Totally silent.

Thank you.
I assume Apple's official specifications are then most likely referring to "Max" typical acoustical performance.

Just get a Raspberry Pi.

Yes but time to research and perform ideal setup is also time consuming and must be worth some $.

I read a little bit and there seems to be many options for third-party "software" option to run on Raspberry Pi.
Also to store audio files (like Mac Mini) would require additional purchase of external drive etc.
And I have concern about Raspberry's "security" if connected to the internet.

 

[bigguyca]

That's what I used to think about my Macs, until a couple of months ago I got some malware on my Mini. If you use a firewall and don't do general internet browsing on Mini you might not need malware protection, but at this point I'd have to recommend it. I don't know if the McAfee software is lying or exaggerating, but it says it finds and fixes a substantial number of threats. (Yes, I'm a skeptic, but a careful skeptic.)

Excerpt from sans.org email concerning recent Apple software vulnerability issues:

"Top of the News
Apple Releases Updates to Fix Three Zero-Days
(May 24, 2021)
Apple released updates to macOS 11.4, 10.15, 10.14; iOS and iPadOS 14.6; watchOS 7.5 and tvOS 14.6 to address three zero day vulnerabilities hackers exploited in the wild. The XCSSET malware exploited the weakness in CVE-2021-30713 to bypass macOS privacy protections while CVE-2021-30663 and CVE-2021-30665 impact WebKit on Apple TV 4K and Apple TV HD devices. Zero-day vulnerabilities have been showing up more in Apple’s security advisories, often tagged as exploited prior to fixes being released.
Editor's Note

[Ullrich]
This is the second time this month that Apple has patched actively exploited vulnerabilities. Either Apple's ecosystem is seeing more attention from attackers, or Apple is being more open in announcing if vulnerabilities are already exploited. Note that this round of updates provides patches for older versions of OS X, like Catalina and Mojave. The most important vulnerability is targeting developers via malicious XCode projects. Prioritize these patches if you are using XCode.

[Neely]
Apple is releasing updates as rapidly as they can to thwart exploits actively being exploited. Unfortunately, this is shortening the update cycle. Even though you likely haven’t finished applying the last OS updates from the beginning of May, you need to keep rolling forward to get these deployed. CVE-2021-30713 is a flaw in the Transparency, Consent and Control (TCC) framework, while the others are focused on webkit, which impacts both mobile and desktop operating systems. Push the updates to your ADE devices to have users install immediately so you can focus on desktop devices running the other operating systems.

Read more in:
- support.apple.com: Apple security updates
- support.apple.com: About the security content of macOS Big Sur 11.4
- support.apple.com: About the security content of tvOS 14.6
- www.jamf.com: Zero-Day TCC bypass discovered in XCSSET malware
- www.bleepingcomputer.com: Apple fixes three zero-days, one abused by XCSSET macOS malware
- www.theregister.com: Apple patches macOS flaw exploited by malware to secretly snap screenshots
- arstechnica.com: Actively exploited macOS 0day let hackers take screenshots of infected Macs

Top of the News
Apple Releases Updates to Fix Three Zero-Days
(May 24, 2021)
Apple released updates to macOS 11.4, 10.15, 10.14; iOS and iPadOS 14.6; watchOS 7.5 and tvOS 14.6 to address three zero day vulnerabilities hackers exploited in the wild. The XCSSET malware exploited the weakness in CVE-2021-30713 to bypass macOS privacy protections while CVE-2021-30663 and CVE-2021-30665 impact WebKit on Apple TV 4K and Apple TV HD devices. Zero-day vulnerabilities have been showing up more in Apple’s security advisories, often tagged as exploited prior to fixes being released.
Editor's Note

[Ullrich]
This is the second time this month that Apple has patched actively exploited vulnerabilities. Either Apple's ecosystem is seeing more attention from attackers, or Apple is being more open in announcing if vulnerabilities are already exploited. Note that this round of updates provides patches for older versions of OS X, like Catalina and Mojave. The most important vulnerability is targeting developers via malicious XCode projects. Prioritize these patches if you are using XCode.

[Neely]
Apple is releasing updates as rapidly as they can to thwart exploits actively being exploited. Unfortunately, this is shortening the update cycle. Even though you likely haven’t finished applying the last OS updates from the beginning of May, you need to keep rolling forward to get these deployed. CVE-2021-30713 is a flaw in the Transparency, Consent and Control (TCC) framework, while the others are focused on webkit, which impacts both mobile and desktop operating systems. Push the updates to your ADE devices to have users install immediately so you can focus on desktop devices running the other operating systems.

Read more in:
- support.apple.com: Apple security updates
- support.apple.com: About the security content of macOS Big Sur 11.4
- support.apple.com: About the security content of tvOS 14.6
- www.jamf.com: Zero-Day TCC bypass discovered in XCSSET malware
- www.bleepingcomputer.com: Apple fixes three zero-days, one abused by XCSSET macOS malware
- www.theregister.com: Apple patches macOS flaw exploited by malware to secretly snap screenshots
- arstechnica.com: Actively exploited macOS 0day let hackers take screenshots of infected Macs
"

 

[mononoaware]

Thank you - to everyone who provided feedback on the topic.

I also just came across this video and at 3:16 they mention the M1 Mac Mini running silent during their “audio processing” stress test which gives an extra sense of confidence in its noise levels, especially if using it just to “playback” audio files.

Also worth noting with these new Mac’s you cannot perform any of your own hardware upgrades in the future due to how the hardware is designed/put together, so might to worthwhile to pay the extra for more RAM/SSD storage than you think you need.

 

[Beershaun]

Curious what you ended up doing? Have you bought an M1 Mac mini and set it up? If not there are now some prebuilt raspberry pi-like options that are much cheaper than a Mac mini and silent. Here is a link to the Songbird music streamer. Would this meet your needs?

https://www.andoveraudio.com/products/songbird-hi-res-internet-audio-streaming-device

 

[Dimifoot]

I am using an M1 as a dedicated-always on Roon Core for 3 days now. Haven't heard a thing.

 

[carlob]

Mine is dead silent but also the previous (Intel) one was so.

 

[mononoaware]

Curious what you ended up doing? Have you bought an M1 Mac mini and set it up? If not there are now some prebuilt raspberry pi-like options that are much cheaper than a Mac mini and silent. Here is a link to the Songbird music streamer. Would this meet your needs?

https://www.andoveraudio.com/products/songbird-hi-res-internet-audio-streaming-device

I am looking for more a all-in-one local player solution, so locally stored files played back natively.

Someone else in this thread did suggest a "Pi" solution, which could get quite messy and complex when adding an external drive + all the available 3rd party OS options to handle all of it. (I had a look at Pi options before and it feels a bit too DIY and technical)
I can see how "Pi's" appeal to those who have programming knowledge and love customization etc.

Maybe I have become one of those "dumb" customers, but I like the idea of a Mac that just "works" out-of-the-box & updates its OS regularly for security, then just installing iTunes/or Jriver Media Center to handle the audio archive playback. (I am at least capable of installing software and managing archive files on a computer)

I already have a "streaming" AirPlay solution which I have been using for many years. The problem is I am limited by how many tracks I can fit on an old iPhone. So I just thought for the same price as a new iPhone I could get an all-in-one local playback solution (M1 Mac Mini), with the added benefit of advanced "EQ" and bit-perfect local playback all remote controlled by the iPad (with remote App).

I am currently waiting for a possible further price drop on the M1 Mac Mini which was released end of 2019 I believe, and since some M2 Mac's are about to be released I am hoping the price may drop further. . .

 

[30 Ounce]

I have a 2019 Mac mini SSD that I use a a dedicated music server/streamer and I have never heard it make any noise at all and it’s 3-4 feet from my listening seat. I didn’t even know it had a fan until this thread!

 

[Loathecliff]

Can't you just use a Raspberry Pi. Cheaper and no fan.

Yes, you could. I have done similar with a Minisforum N40, & I can't fault it.
However, I know my place.
There was (& still is) ordinary silence, but now there is Apple Silence:- 'It Doesn't Make a Sound'
It has to be a great leap forward, doesn't it?
Otherwise there is no point of (in my case comparison) there being a circa 250% price differential.

 

[tgray]

The Pi will definitely be more fiddly, but isn’t too difficult to implement. The web interfaces on the audio Pi distributions are not as nice in my opinion as the Remote app.

The M1 Mini came out in November 2020. I personally would not expect to see a price drop with new hardware, but just better specs.

 

[carlob]

A M1 Mac Mini is a bit overkill if you use it only as a dedicated music server/streamer

 

[mononoaware]

To even things out. . .

A video about issues (common use) with M1 Mac Mini.

Video Summary:
- Built-in Bluetooth has dropout issues (I heard this elsewhere also with lagging mouse cursor which is important when "scrubbing" while audio/video editing)
- 8GB RAM option is a bottle-neck for the system when doing high-demand tasks
- A lot of software/plugins not yet optimized for M1 Processor (depends on software you use - some are already optimized).
- Lack of ports (less than previous Intel Mac Mini)

After hearing about "software optimization" issues, maybe I will have to stick with iTunes as a player at least until Jriver Media Center is fully-optimized for M1 Processor.

 

[mononoaware]

The Pi will definitely be more fiddly, but isn’t too difficult to implement. The web interfaces on the audio Pi distributions are not as nice in my opinion as the Remote app.

Thank you for the feedback regarding hands-on user experience with "Pi".

The way I understand it the Pi is a micro-computer which is designed to run simple software which is easily and quickly coded by an individual with enough experience.
In other words made for "tweakers" with which one can write up a program for in a matter of minutes and easily share their "solution" to their community/friends which runs on a standardized, easy to purchase/low-cost piece of hardware.

In terms of what it is capable of, I am sure many have come up with multiple "solutions" for basic tasks. After watching a YouTube video of a Pi running its own dedicated Pi OS dropping frames by just playing a YouTube video, and lagging many seconds to make the video full-screen, I thought it is more of a "niche" product which fits it's particular purpose of being extremely "modular" in it's functionality/programmability.
In other words it is not fully capable of running main-stream OS (such as Windows 10 or Mac OS).

I understand it can be a budget option for many, with it's attractive possibilities of multiple use-case scenario's other than/after it's use as a "music streamer".

After other consideration's I concluded the M1 Mac Mini is a good option with minimal setup/maintenance required and likely to last more than a decade being used as just an "audio source" device for local playback.
Another bonus with Apple seems to be the way thing's just reliably "work" with minimal interaction/adjustments (at least in my limited experience with their iOS devices), that and it all comes pre-built in a simple easy to manage device.

 

[mononoaware]

A M1 Mac Mini is a bit overkill if you use it only as a dedicated music server/streamer

Yes I agree, but I believe worthwhile if it provides an experience that requires minimal interaction (proper OS with auto-updates) and likely to withstand use as an audio source for over a decade.

After setting it up initially, I plan on unplugging the monitor, keeping it unplugged and using the M1 Mac Mini "headless" as just a source device (audio player software controlled with corresponding iOS remote App via iPad).

 

[FooYatChong]

I had JRiver (controlled with JRemote) on a Mac Mini i5 and now on a Pi4.
The Pi handles it just fine with 2 to 3% CPU load when playing music from memory and a 15% load when decoding into memory.
JRemote is just as responsive as it was with the Mac Mini.

Downside is you have to install JRiver from the command-line but you can copy-paste the commands from the guides on the JRiver website.

Nevertheless, I'm looking for something more family-friendly now like the Bluesound Node.

 

[tmtomh]

In addition to being Apple's first in-house Mac chip, the M1 is alsothe entry-level offering, so it's going to have certain limitations, like the RAM ceiling and the limited number of thunderbolt ports.

That said, a few points worth noting in favor of a Mac mini as a music server:

• The recently refreshed M1 minis have added two USB 3 ports, so they now come with four multi-purpose ports instead of the original two they had back in November. Given that they also have an HDMI port, that's plenty for any use-case I can think of involving the computer as a music streamer and/or media center.
• The M1's integrated RAM configuration is more efficient than a conventional situation where RAM is not part of the main chip die. An 8GB M1 mini isn't going to stand up to a 64GB conventional machine, but the RAM limit is nevertheless somewhat deceiving, and the tests I've seen published online suggest that for most uses the M1 machines' RAM allocation is basically equivalent to having double that amount on an Intel-based Mac.
• Speaking of Intel-based Macs, a 2018, or even a 2012, Intel mini will work just fine as a music server. I have a 2012 as my main music server, and I can't hear its fan unless I walk up to it and lean over, putting my ear about 6-8 inches from the machine. Used 2012 minis can be had pretty cheaply, their performance is more than enough for a music server, and it's easy to put an SSD - or two - in them and upgrade the RAM.

Finally, anyone who uses an Intel mini headless as a server should get one of those $10 HDMI dummy plugs for it too, because if there's nothing plugged into the HDMI port, graphics acceleration will be disabled, resulting in dog-slow performance for many tasks, including the remote screen-sharing necessary to control and administer the computer. I don't know if M1 minis have this same issue or not.

 

[mononoaware]

I had JRiver (controlled with JRemote) on a Mac Mini i5 and now on a Pi4.
The Pi handles it just fine with 2 to 3% CPU load when playing music from memory and a 15% load when decoding into memory.
JRemote is just as responsive as it was with the Mac Mini.

Downside is you have to install JRiver from the command-line but you can copy-paste the commands from the guides on the JRiver website.

Nevertheless, I'm looking for something more family-friendly now like the Bluesound Node.

Interesting so JRiver + JRemote supports Raspberry Pi.

 

[tgray]

Thank you for the feedback regarding hands-on user experience with "Pi".

The way I understand it the Pi is a micro-computer which is designed to run simple software which is easily and quickly coded by an individual with enough experience.
In other words made for "tweakers" with which one can write up a program for in a matter of minutes and easily share their "solution" to their community/friends which runs on a standardized, easy to purchase/low-cost piece of hardware.

Yeah, I think if one looks at the M1 Mini as a $700-1000 audio component (which many don't seem to have an issue with buying), then it should be nice. You should get a good 5 years or more out of it.

The Pi is not *too* much hassle. Buy a Pi 4 with 2 GB of RAM and an SD card. Download either Volumio or MoOde image and flash the card with it and boot up the Pi. Once it's on your network, go to the webpage and point them to wherever your music is (either hard drive - get a Samsung T5 SSD, or some network location). And then play music. If you have a USB DAC, you should be able to plug it right into the Pi and use that as an output. If not, buy something like a HifiBerry DAC card, which plugs directly into the Pi board. It all sounds much more complicated than it really is.

I have a couple Pis for music. One has a copy of all my files on a connected SSD which I point all my other streamers to for playback (Sonos, etc.). The other Pi I'm using for music right now is hooked up to a DAC and headphone amp next to the sofa.

The Mac Mini will be much more capable, polished, plug and play, and expensive

 

[mononoaware]

the M1 is alsothe entry-level offering

Yes this is particularly of interest to me, since with M2 I imagine they will brag about "less power consumption + more performance" but usually in the long-run faster chips will run hotter more often and ruin the "silent" aspect.
I expect the M1 chip I think will do better in terms of "fan-noise" than M2 chips.

RAM allocation is basically equivalent to having double that amount on an Intel-based Mac.

Interesting, in the original post above, I took it (from the video) as for "high-demand" tasks. So I imagine the entire system is needing to squeeze every last bit of performance out of each component (CPU/GPU/RAM/SSD etc with heavy 4K video editing etc).
And they mention the 16GB RAM model helps free up the system to its full-potential.

I can't hear its fan unless I walk up to it and lean over, putting my ear about 6-8 inches from the machine.

I would prefer as silent as possible in a near-field situation. . .

get one of those $10 HDMI dummy plugs for it too, because if there's nothing plugged into the HDMI port, graphics acceleration will be disabled, resulting in dog-slow performance for many tasks, including the remote screen-sharing necessary to control and administer the computer. I don't know if M1 minis have this same issue or not.

Ok thanks for this important information.
I will read up on it for the M1 model.