Apple's first high-end headphones

[Beershaun]

Eh even at home wireless headphones make perfect sense to me; and I’m a huge speaker nut to the point where I have speakers installed in every single room in my house, including my bathroom. I’ve been sufficiently privileged to enjoy speakers long before I even considered headphones, and despite having owned the Sennheiser HD600, HD650, HD800 and HD800S; I always return to wireless headphones.

The first reason for this is that I’m a strong proponent for all-in-one solutions. I’ve said it before in another thread: but once I’m spending this amount of money — and it doesn’t even matter if we’re talking about speakers or headphones — I expect a product delivered to me where the engineers have done their homework to deliver to me the most optimal out-of-the-box performance experience to the best of their ability. This means to me that it shouldn’t be my job to mix and match amplifiers and the like (this is all just money-wasting audiofool bullshit to me) and active speakers and wireless headphones with built-in amplification are thus the ideal products in my opinion.

The second reason is that if for whatever reason I prefer to use headphones over speakers, I still want to experience the key benefit of speakers which is to not be shackled down to a specific location. I like to listen to music while doing laundry and other household chores for instance, or sometimes I just like to get up and momentarily enjoy the greenery outside my window.

I’m a huge music-lover first and foremost, and my equipment exists purely to deliver that love to me. I listen to the vast majority of my music outside of what everyone would consider the “optimal listening position,” but that’s fine by me. And likewise I place a much bigger emphasis on my comfort and flexibility to go where I please over minuscule and barely noticeable differences in frequency response and the like. Trust me, when you’re doing laundry you really don’t care about losing — or even gaining in the LF regions — several decibels here and there, you just want your music to keep you company while you’re going about your day.

And likewise I will sooner own a Bose QC 35 II over a Sennheiser HD800S for precisely these reasons, and I did in fact do exactly that: I sold my HD800S and went wireless to never look back (though I have since sold my Bose but only because I’ve been moving my entire life to USB-C and hence why I am looking to get either the Apple AirPods Max or Bang & Olufsen Beoplay H95).

At the end of the day everyone has their preferences, and look I get why many prefer wired headphones. I absolutely enjoyed my time with my HD800S and its siblings (I still maintain that the HD800S is the most comfortable pair of headphones to ever grace our lands), but ultimately I had other priorities. As long as you’re happy, you do you.

Also don’t forget that in our current climate with “Work From Home” having become a lot more accepted than in the past headphones of all kinds have become a lot more important for a lot more people; in my case my partner is around a lot more often these days and thus wireless headphones allow me the flexibility of enjoying my hobby without sacrificing what’s important to me.

Can't agree more on the reasons and benefits of wireless. I have some great wired headphones and dongle dac for my phone but what I use most for freedom and flexibility are my Sony WF-1000XM3. Convenience in the consumer marketplace is king.

 

[Zensō]

Hey everyone! Is there anyone here who owns the AirPods Max who also has experience with the Bang & Olufsen Beoplay H95?

I’m looking for a new pair of wireless ANC headphones and my choice is strictly limited to these two headphones only; reason being I’m on an iPhone and because I already own a bunch of B&O products I also already have the B&O app installed and I really don’t want yet another app to manage the headphones from another brand. At least with the AirPods Max it can be managed natively with an iPhone so I’m open to giving them a try.

My number one priority is comfort followed by sound quality. I don’t really care too much about ANC since I’ll be using these at home.

Also how much of a dirt magnet is the headband of the AirPods Max? I’m a little bit skeptical that they’ll last especially since my experience with these kind of rubbery surfaces isn’t very good. I find that over time they start to get a little sticky and become huge dust and dirt magnets, which is especially concerning for something that’s going to be on your head a fair bit; so any input on its quality is also welcome.

Thanksies!~

The build quality of the AirPods Max is very good, better than all of the more expensive “audiophile” headphones I’ve owned. So far I’m not seeing any soiling on the rubber coating of the headband.

After making adjustments in “Headphone Accommodations” on iOS, the sound quality competes pretty well with mid-tier wired headphones such as the Sennheiser 660S.

I haven’t tried the H95, but I’m very happy with the APM; it’s become my most used headphone due to the combination of better than average comfort, pretty good sound quality, amazing noise cancellation, and the freedom of wireless.

 

[617]

The wireless headphones have build in dsp equalization and noise cancelling. Their sound quality is better than wired headphones in most cases. The biggest disadvantage of wireless headphones is that most of them are closed designs. I prefer my Razer Opus with a tweaked bass response to any of my old Sennheisers.

If someone made a fully open headphone with bluetooth and proper EQ I would be all over it.

I'm finding that setting equalization on my phone is ironically an easier and less annoying process than eqing on my PC. The wavelet app is way better than APO/Peace.

I haven't heard that many high end headphones - just the older Sennheisers, some Sonys, Beyers, Grados and AKGs. None of them sound particularly neutral except the Sennheisers. The Grados and Beyers are train wrecks, to me. The Sonys are clearly tools for monitoring recordings. The AKGs were ok but dark. The idea that you can put an unfiltered full range driver in a little enclosure and expect anything close to high fidelity is frankly insane. DSP is required to make headphones work, and wireless headphones are the most elegant way to achieve this. I will concede that high end passive headphones have the edge with spatial effects and very clean bass - sometimes. Most of them just suck though.

 

[Saidera]

Some very deep discussions in the preceding posts!

In addition, I wonder whether the effect of me being put down elsewhere when I enthusiastically proposed that 'wireless is the future' and 'DSEE Extreme' upscaling would solve everything for wireless (it doesn't) prevents me now from accepting wireless. XM3, XM4 is all fine and good but is it not possible for Sony to put their own S-Master DAC in it? That is, to achieve another MDR-1ADAC whereby you can listen to analogue sources via 3.5 mm AUDIO IN, digital DAC via USB cable, and also do what XM4 does which is wireless and passive modes...this could be so versatile that Sony's other products would become obsolete. The point of Sony's marketing last year was to get people to buy, try, and use both, though I saw a clear division and the majority stuck to wired for quality. S-Master HX and their current QN1 chip are mutually exclusive; MDR-1ADAC was also not the best at implementing the S-Master DAC.

There are many limitations we want to see overcome: XM4 can only use AAC with most products, and that is unfortunate because LDAC+DSEE Extreme happens to be incredibly good (for wireless anyway). Clearly they want LDAC to be taken up. In comparisons of specific details, XM4 cannot win against wired headphones. But considered overall, as an all-in-one, I would agree that these are great for people who don't get caught up over details.

The engineers say that the QN1 has the lowest SNR and distortion in the market. QN1's good measurements also improve the noise cancelling accuracy and function. Meanwhile ASR measurements clarified again the fact that XM3 and XM4 both aren't suitable for passive use without EQ.

 

[A Surfer]

If someone made a fully open headphone with bluetooth and proper EQ I would be all over it.

Here you go, the HiFi Man Ananada. Been on the market for close to two years I believe, certainly more than a year. Not sure what you mean by a proper EQ though. I assume you mean with the accompanying app that Sony uses. I never bother with those apps. I use Onkyo HF Player Pro or Neutron, both of which provide excellent equalizers and they allow LDAC to be used as well. I use the Sony XM3 bass adjusted to clean up the terrible muddy stock signature and I end up with a fantastic sounding headphone. I also have and think the KEF Space One Wireless sounds better; however the ANC is nowhere near the Sony and I would never use the KEF with ANC enabled.

Headphones & portable audio - HIFIMAN.com

 

[617]

Here you go, the HiFi Man Ananada. Been on the market for close to two years I believe, certainly more than a year. Not sure what you mean by a proper EQ though. I assume you mean with the accompanying app that Sony uses. I never bother with those apps. I use Onkyo HF Player Pro or Neutron, both of which provide excellent equalizers and they allow LDAC to be used as well. I use the Sony XM3 bass adjusted to clean up the terrible muddy stock signature and I end up with a fantastic sounding headphone. I also have and think the KEF Space One Wireless sounds better; however the ANC is nowhere near the Sony and I would never use the KEF with ANC enabled.

Headphones & portable audio - HIFIMAN.com

A little expensive for gardening, but a unique product! Thanks for pointing these out.

 

[Victoria]

The build quality of the AirPods Max is very good, better than all of the more expensive “audiophile” headphones I’ve owned. So far I’m not seeing any soiling on the rubber coating of the headband.

After making adjustments in “Headphone Accommodations” on iOS, the sound quality competes pretty well with mid-tier wired headphones such as the Sennheiser 660S.

I haven’t tried the H95, but I’m very happy with the APM; it’s become my most used headphone due to the combination of better than average comfort, pretty good sound quality, amazing noise cancellation, and the freedom of wireless.

Thanks for your response and everyone else who contributed to this thread and my replies! In what’s a really big “d’oh” moment for me I just got my new headphones… and I ended up buying the Bose QC 35 II… again. Where I’m from it’s easy to get them for about 260US$ and at the end of the day as mentioned in my earlier responses comfort is my absolute number one priority, and it’s not like these headphones don’t measure well:

*ahem* … https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...5-ii-review-noise-cancelling-headphone.20584/

I decided to just suck it and have one lone USB-A charger and micro USB cable sitting around the house just for these headphones (this is actually why I sold them originally, I’ve really been trying to get everything on USB-C and it actually blows my mind how these headphones even use micro USB given that they aren’t actually that old, ugh). Oh well, better than having headphones which are easy to charge but not easy on my head.

I had actually forgotten how good these sound, you really get a hell of a lot of headphones for 260US$. I ultimately ruled out the BeoPlay H95 due to cost (they’re beautiful but without measurements they are a little hard to justify for the money, plus the cost also meant I’d dare not touch them lol). The AirPods Max went out partly due to cost, partly due to aesthetics, and partly due to me not liking the materials they’re made with.

I did consider the Bose NC 700 but it was a downgrade in the comfort department and also the new facist app requiring a login to use was a big no-no for me. And this is how I ended up buying the Bose QC 35 II… twice.

GG.

Oh and also physical controls rule over all else, no one is going to be able to change my mind here but the physical controls on the Bose QC 35 II are superior in every way compared to all the touch nonsense.

 

[phrwn]

Thanks for your response and everyone else who contributed to this thread and my replies! In what’s a really big “d’oh” moment for me I just got my new headphones… and I ended up buying the Bose QC 35 II… again. Where I’m from it’s easy to get them for about 260US$ and at the end of the day as mentioned in my earlier responses comfort is my absolute number one priority, and it’s not like these headphones don’t measure well:

*ahem* … https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...5-ii-review-noise-cancelling-headphone.20584/

I decided to just suck it and have one lone USB-A charger and micro USB cable sitting around the house just for these headphones (this is actually why I sold them originally, I’ve really been trying to get everything on USB-C and it actually blows my mind how these headphones even use micro USB given that they aren’t actually that old, ugh). Oh well, better than having headphones which are easy to charge but not easy on my head.

I had actually forgotten how good these sound, you really get a hell of a lot of headphones for 260US$. I ultimately ruled out the BeoPlay H95 due to cost (they’re beautiful but without measurements they are a little hard to justify for the money, plus the cost also meant I’d dare not touch them lol). The AirPods Max went out partly due to cost, partly due to aesthetics, and partly due to me not liking the materials they’re made with.

I did consider the Bose NC 700 but it was a downgrade in the comfort department and also the new facist app requiring a login to use was a big no-no for me. And this is how I ended up buying the Bose QC 35 II… twice.

GG.

Oh and also physical controls rule over all else, no one is going to be able to change my mind here but the physical controls on the Bose QC 35 II are superior in every way compared to all the touch nonsense.

Well that might just have tipped me over the edge into trying the QC35's. I've been thinking about it for ages, then reading all your comments on the inconvenience of wired headphones and agreeing with all of it... All I really want is to enjoy my music and not think about the delivery mechanism at all. Sounds like the QC35's may get the closest to just melting into the background.

 

[16/44]

I decided to just suck it and have one lone USB-A charger and micro USB cable sitting around the house just for these headphones (this is actually why I sold them originally, I’ve really been trying to get everything on USB-C and it actually blows my mind how these headphones even use micro USB given that they aren’t actually that old, ugh). Oh well, better than having headphones which are easy to charge but not easy on my head.

I have the QC35 II as well. No need to use a USB-A charger, I just use a micro-USB to USB-C cable.

 

[jmos]

The sound quality and engineering gap between the AirPods Max and the rest of the audiophile world is monstrous. Just ask Sennheiser how hard it is to create a good sounding ANC headphone.

Their answer would be the momentum 3 wireless. Cheaper and better sounding. IMO

 

[Victoria]

Well that might just have tipped me over the edge into trying the QC35's. I've been thinking about it for ages, then reading all your comments on the inconvenience of wired headphones and agreeing with all of it... All I really want is to enjoy my music and not think about the delivery mechanism at all. Sounds like the QC35's may get the closest to just melting into the background.

And that’s what’s most important really: the music. Sometimes we get caught up worrying about our gear and all when the reality is that they’re just a means to the end. I’m a huge music-lover first and foremost so for me it’s quite easy to tune out from all the gadgetry that surrounds our hobby. I’m quite a bit of a geek as well so I visit this site often regardless just to see what’s new and exciting! But for me the music always comes first.

At the end of the day I’ve realised I gain a lot more happiness from expanding my already-ridiculous music collection and every penny saved from gear is an additional penny going towards supporting my favourite artists.

Do definitely give the Bose a try, at the end of the day they do measure well and they’re really fun headphones. Convenience plays a part and the comfort means you’ll never feel fatigued or inconvenienced by your music.

 

[phrwn]

And that’s what’s most important really: the music. Sometimes we get caught up worrying about our gear and all when the reality is that they’re just a means to the end. I’m a huge music-lover first and foremost so for me it’s quite easy to tune out from all the gadgetry that surrounds our hobby. I’m quite a bit of a geek as well so I visit this site often regardless just to see what’s new and exciting! But for me the music always comes first.

At the end of the day I’ve realised I gain a lot more happiness from expanding my already-ridiculous music collection and every penny saved from gear is an additional penny going towards supporting my favourite artists.

Do definitely give the Bose a try, at the end of the day they do measure well and they’re really fun headphones. Convenience plays a part and the comfort means you’ll never feel fatigued or inconvenienced by your music.

Yep agreed. Got some silver ones coming in. And with that we should let this thread return to topic.

 

[Darwin]

I don't agree with you at all. I have owned many very well regarded headphones and while not perfect, the Sony XM3 sounds fantastic once a little bass bloat is trimmed away. It took me about 10 minutes at most to find an equalization setting using Onkyo HF Player which has a pretty nice, user friendly FIR. It has only three eq points which hardly constitutes a lot of eq'ing. The XM3 are extremely comfortable, have extremely competent NC and in my opinion sound very nice with very modest effort equalizing. Yes, without trimming the bass bloat the stock signature is not flattering, but once liberated from that ridiculous tuning the XM3 is very competent sounding.

I’m talking about the M4s which I have recently heard. What a mess. DSP all over the place. Ugh. I have tried the 3s but they can’t be much better. Having to use a 3rd party dsp to get them to sound decent is not something I want to do. The AirPod max sounds dramatically better. DSP done right.

 

[A Surfer]

I’m talking about the M4s which I have recently heard. What a mess. DSP all over the place. Ugh. I have tried the 3s but they can’t be much better. Having to use a 3rd party dsp to get them to sound decent is not something I want to do. The AirPod max sounds dramatically better. DSP done right.

DSP done right for your preferences you mean, and I suspect the AirPod Max does sound quite good. My point remains, who cares where the DSP is done, totally irrelevant. For considerably less money somebody can buy the XM3 or 4, not be tied into the Apple Ecosystem, have a very comfortable headphone, enjoy class leading ANC and still use the DSP in their player software. Really not a big deal, it took all of 10 minutes to DSP the XM3 to sound very good.

 

[Hewbacca]

Just read through the whole thread. Don't think I'm interested in APM anymore.

Thread could have been 7 pages, instead of 21, if it was just about headphones

 

[A Surfer]

Just read through the whole thread. Don't think I'm interested in APM anymore.

Thread could have been 7 pages, instead of 21, if it was just about headphones

I'm sure you are familiar with how enthusiast site discussion threads go. Pretty rare that they don't go off topic.