Apple Spacial Audio Questions

[luft262]

I'm currently trying out Apple Music primarily for the spacial audio. Over headphones I have not been super impressed. At least not enough to continue with the service. I'm contemplating getting an Apple TV streaming device so I can play spacial audio over my 5.1 surround sound system via my AVR.

1. Has anyone tried this? Is it real multichannel music or just up conversions?

2. Is it significantly better than just up converting stereo using the AVR?

3. Is there a large library of music in spacial audio, including classical?

4. Is any of the multichannel music also lossless?

5. Is all of Apple's spacial audio music Dolby Atmos or is it a blanket term for various formats they offer?

Thank you for your experience with the platform and info.

 

[Keith_W]

I too have some questions about Apple Spatial Audio. I hope you don't mind if I piggyback your thread.

1. How does it work?
2. How effective is it? (Guess the OP partially answered my question)
3. Does it work better with a certain type of headphone, e.g. IEM, closed back, open back?
4. If you don't use Apple, are there alternatives that do a similar job?

 

[luft262]

I too have some questions about Apple Spatial Audio. I hope you don't mind if I piggyback your thread.

1. How does it work?
2. How effective is it? (Guess the OP partially answered my question)
3. Does it work better with a certain type of headphone, e.g. IEM, closed back, open back?
4. If you don't use Apple, are there alternatives that do a similar job?

With headphones I know Amazon Music and Tidal are similar. I've tried them and they work similarly. As far as I know the Apple TV device is the only way to stream it onto an AVR for speakers in Atmos. I've been mostly unimpressed with the headphone application, but I'd be willing to get and Apple TV device if others think it works better with speakers...

 

[iGude]

The experience with headphones doesn’t even come close to the experience with a multichannel speaker setup for the time being, even if it is “just” 5.1.

Is it real multichannel music or just up conversions?

It is real multichannel. Some recordings might be just upmixed stereo but this is not Apple’s fault and still sounds better than stereo in my opinion.

Is it significantly better than just up converting stereo using the AVR?

Yes, for the vast majority of recordings, see above.

Is there a large library of music in spacial audio, including classical?

Whether or not you consider the library large is a matter of taste so I recommend to check it out, search for Atmos or 3D-audio playlists.
In my opinion, it is large enough to go for it.

Is any of the multichannel music also lossless?

Dolby Atmos as implemented in Apple’s spatial audio is not lossless to my knowledge. I still prefer it over lossless stereo.

Is all of Apple's spacial audio music Dolby Atmos or is it a blanket term for various formats they offer?

For the time being it is Atmos only.

Since you own a 5.1 speaker system and enjoy classical music you should run, not walk to multichannel streaming, and Apple’s Spatial Audio is the best (only?) here.

 

[iGude]

Does it work better with a certain type of headphone, e.g. IEM, closed back, open back?

I’ll give you my personal opinion here: for music enthusiasts, immersive or spatial audio with a multichannel speaker setup is the real deal, for Apple it is a way to sell more headphones and streaming subscriptions…

 

[iGude]

…and to answer your question, this is independent from the type of headphones, you need a multichannel speaker setup to really enjoy it.

 

[Keith_W]

Okay. For a while I thought it was some kind of processing they were doing, so looks like I am wrong there. My system is set up for 2.2 only, and given that it is full DSP with digital crossovers I can't even imagine how I could convert that to 5.2.

 

[napfkuchen]

My Apple tv, the AVR, nine speakers and subwoofer are already waiting to play apple music. Unfortunately the new tv was delivered with an unwanted extra (broken screen). So it will take some time until I can test everything...

 

[iGude]

Okay. For a while I thought it was some kind of processing they were doing, so looks like I am wrong there. My system is set up for 2.2 only, and given that it is full DSP with digital crossovers I can't even imagine how I could convert that to 5.2.

Typically, you would use smaller and more cost-effective speakers for the side/rear/height, especially in case of multichannel recordings that “only” have reverberation in those channels.
And for music only, the need for a center speaker is questionable.

 

[Paolo]

…and to answer your question, this is independent from the type of headphones, you need a multichannel speaker setup to really enjoy it.

Have you tried with the AirPods max? I’m curious, they should be good for it, at least that’s what apple says

 

[Keith_W]

Typically, you would use smaller and more cost-effective speakers for the side/rear/height, especially in case of multichannel recordings that “only” have reverberation in those channels.
And for music only, the need for a center speaker is questionable.

Buying additional speakers is not the problem. The problem is how I am going to send sound to them.

 

[iGude]

Have you tried with the AirPods max?

I tried them once. They do a respectable job and sound is nice, but in no way they sound like a real multichannel speaker setup.

 

[luft262]

The experience with headphones doesn’t even come close to the experience with a multichannel speaker setup for the time being, even if it is “just” 5.1.


It is real multichannel. Some recordings might be just upmixed stereo but this is not Apple’s fault and still sounds better than stereo in my opinion.


Yes, for the vast majority of recordings, see above.


Whether or not you consider the library large is a matter of taste so I recommend to check it out, search for Atmos or 3D-audio playlists.
In my opinion, it is large enough to go for it.


Dolby Atmos as implemented in Apple’s spatial audio is not lossless to my knowledge. I still prefer it over lossless stereo.

For the time being it is Atmos only.

Since you own a 5.1 speaker system and enjoy classical music you should run, not walk to multichannel streaming, and Apple’s Spatial Audio is the best (only?) here.

Thank you that was an amazing answer!

 

[luft262]

The experience with headphones doesn’t even come close to the experience with a multichannel speaker setup for the time being, even if it is “just” 5.1.


It is real multichannel. Some recordings might be just upmixed stereo but this is not Apple’s fault and still sounds better than stereo in my opinion.


Yes, for the vast majority of recordings, see above.


Whether or not you consider the library large is a matter of taste so I recommend to check it out, search for Atmos or 3D-audio playlists.
In my opinion, it is large enough to go for it.


Dolby Atmos as implemented in Apple’s spatial audio is not lossless to my knowledge. I still prefer it over lossless stereo.

For the time being it is Atmos only.

Since you own a 5.1 speaker system and enjoy classical music you should run, not walk to multichannel streaming, and Apple’s Spatial Audio is the best (only?) here.

On Audioholics they said to get the most of apple Spacial Audio you need a 7.2.4 setup. I only have a 5.1. (l/r/c, 2 subs, and 2 rear ceiling speakers) do you think that's enough to get benefits from Atmos audio? I'm not willing to put more speakers into the walls of my living room so 5.1 is as far as I'll ever go.

 

[iGude]

do you think that's enough to get benefits from Atmos audio?

We talk music only, right? (For movie soundtrack my answer would be a bit different)
For music recordings containing some amount of reverberation, and especially for classical music, going from stereo to 5.1 is a massive improvement. More speakers would give you a bit more immersion, which is nice but not essential.
Exception: recordings that make full use of 3D sound with instruments in all directions. Naturally, this requires more speakers.

In this context we shouldn’t forget that multichannel music was “only” 5.1 for the last 15 years before Atmos was born. And nobody missed height speakers back then as far as I remember.

 

[Purplehazeffc]

On Audioholics they said to get the most of apple Spacial Audio you need a 7.2.4 setup. I only have a 5.1. (l/r/c, 2 subs, and 2 rear ceiling speakers) do you think that's enough to get benefits from Atmos audio? I'm not willing to put more speakers into the walls of my living room so 5.1 is as far as I'll ever go.

I'm in the same boat. Unable to do anymore that 5.1. On most albums it can make a huge difference, on others not so much.
But 85%-90% of the time I prefer the Atmos version. The only thing I don't know is if it works if you haven't got an Atmos capable receiver.
But for the cost of an Apple TV. It makes a great all-round video & music streamer. For me it works flawlessly.

 

[bevok]

Hi
I find the mixes often more spacious and less compressed on headphones but not significantly better than good stereo, I struggle to hear the claimed height etc.
On a surround speaker system it’s a different story and well worth pursuing (I bought an Apple TV for this reason). I only have a 5.1 speaker system but love the effect of a good Atmos mix (of course like any recorded music some mixes are better than others). Some mixes are very unadventurous and I’ve read that Apple Music actively remove ‘up sampled stereo’ mixes masquerading as Atmos. Tidal and Amazon Music also have Atmos, although Apple do seem to have more. They have really championed it and I suspect have got exclusives. Amazon will play over a Sonos Atmos system natively.
For the Apple tv (4K required) the receiver must support Atmos, the Apple tv won’t pass it to something that can’t decode it. Apple Music’s Atmos is lossy.

 

[palm]

With headphones the first seconds with spatial audio are a bit weird… but it also sounds weird when you switch it off.
But with a 5.1 setup it’s really great.
It‘s nice to see a lot more material released with the Atmos mix in the past months. Before that, 5.1 catalog was quite limited.

 

[Descartes]

I’ll give you my personal opinion here: for music enthusiasts, immersive or spatial audio with a multichannel speaker setup is the real deal, for Apple it is a way to sell more headphones and streaming subscriptions…

I agree having experienced well recorded multichannel music ron SACD and Blu-ray Audio, Apple is doing a good job with music in ATMOS!
I use a 9.2.4 system with KEF LS50 all around and KEF in ceiling speakers!

 

[luft262]

I have now tried Apple Spacial/Dolby Atmos music on both headphones and my 5.2 home theater. I think that it makes a bigger impact on the home theater. With headphones it's hit or miss. I've tried Qobuz, Spotify, YouTube Music, Tidal, and AmazonHD Music over the years and although they all have their advantages and disadvantages I'd say if you have a surround sound system and you want to give surround sound music a go Apple Music is the best platform for that by far. As far as I can tell it is not lossless, but they do offer lossless stereo tracks.