Apple Music Hi-Res Audio Playback Methods Agglomeration

[NiagaraPete]

I can add a bit to this thread. I ended up buying three pretty decent lightning to USB cables for lossless. I get about 4 hours on either device before low battery.

I do have the camera kit and a drawer full of Apple connectors that I could use but don’t.

 

[Jazz]

I find 16/44.1 fine as most music is that anyway. When I find something I like that was engineered right (most important thing of all) and has great detail, I might hook it up Lightning to USB to Schiit from iOS to hear it real good. But 99% of the time, with my old ass ears (anyone over 20 years old), Airplay to an Airport Express then Toslink to Schiit sounds very very fine.
Those Dutch and Japanese engineers knew what they were doing in the late 1970s.
There are many 16/44.1 recordings that sound incredible too.

 

[amadeuswus]

The following delivers bit perfect hi-res to my RME:

iPad>Apple Lightning to USB-3 Camera Adapter>RME ADI-2 DAC

View attachment 138567
View attachment 138571
View attachment 138572

Hello acbarn (or other members who connect their ipad > Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adaptor > self-powered DAC),

Using the same Apple adaptor, I tried to hook up my iPad Mini 2, which runs the latest software for it (12.5.5), to an Oppo BDP-105 (functioning as a USB DAC). I get the error message "Cannot use accessory. OPPO USB Audio Device. This accessory requires too much power." (??? Obviously the OPPO itself is plugged into a power outlet.) If I try to stream Amazon HD Music, nothing is passed through to the OPPO. I hear only the iPad's own speaker.

Is my Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adaptor defective? Any suggestions for what to try? (The OPPO works fine as a USB DAC when connected to my laptop with the same USB cable.) Thanks for your help.

 

[Zensō]

Hello acbarn (or other members who connect their ipad > Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adaptor > self-powered DAC),

Using the same Apple adaptor, I tried to hook up my iPad Mini 2, which runs the latest software for it (12.5.5), to an Oppo BDP-105 (functioning as a USB DAC). I get the error message "Cannot use accessory. OPPO USB Audio Device. This accessory requires too much power." (??? Obviously the OPPO itself is plugged into a power outlet.) If I try to stream Amazon HD Music, nothing is passed through to the OPPO. I hear only the iPad's own speaker.

Is my Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adaptor defective? Any suggestions for what to try? (The OPPO works fine as a USB DAC when connected to my laptop with the same USB cable.) Thanks for your help.

I’m guessing you need a powered USB hub for your OPPO device. John Seaber at JDS Labs says some devices that are self powered lack the “self power flag”, causing iOS devices to throw the error message. This is from his blog:

Self-Power (iOS/Android Connectivity): All current JDS Labs DACs are designed to use their own AC power adapter, and consume no power from the USB port. Nevertheless, some operating systems default to confusing power management settings for USB devices declared as Self-Powered. For this reason, we programmed Element II, EL DAC II, and Atom DAC to boot by default without the self-power flag. This choice is meant to simplify setup with Win10 and MacOS. For iOS, lack of the self-power flag means that a USB hub is required so that the phone or tablet’s battery is not utilized. Enabling the self-power flag eliminates the need for a USB hub to establish a UAC2 connection. Connection with Win10 is supported with the self-power bit, although you may need to disable USB Selective Suspend.

I believe this is true not just for the JDS devices mentioned above, but also for a number of other self powered devices that don’t have the self power flag activated. Your OPPO is likely one of them.

 

[Tom C]

That’s helpful information. Thank you for the post.
I have a self powered DAC (Topping D10 Balanced) that won’t work even with a powered hub, but my JDS Atom does work. I think some just won’t function with an iOS handheld, no matter what you do.

 

[amadeuswus]

I’m guessing you need a powered USB hub for your OPPO device. John Seaber at JDS Labs says some devices that are self powered lack the “self power flag”, causing iOS devices to throw the error message. This is from his blog:

Self-Power (iOS/Android Connectivity): All current JDS Labs DACs are designed to use their own AC power adapter, and consume no power from the USB port. Nevertheless, some operating systems default to confusing power management settings for USB devices declared as Self-Powered. For this reason, we programmed Element II, EL DAC II, and Atom DAC to boot by default without the self-power flag. This choice is meant to simplify setup with Win10 and MacOS. For iOS, lack of the self-power flag means that a USB hub is required so that the phone or tablet’s battery is not utilized. Enabling the self-power flag eliminates the need for a USB hub to establish a UAC2 connection. Connection with Win10 is supported with the self-power bit, although you may need to disable USB Selective Suspend.

I believe this is true not just for the JDS devices mentioned above, but also for a number of other self powered devices that don’t have the self power flag activated. Your OPPO is likely one of them.

Thank you acbarn for your helpful reply. I thought the Apple adaptor was cumbersome enough on its own... adding a powered usb hub starts to sound kludge-squared. Ugh.

1. Would it be safe to assume that the $29 lightning-to-usb camera adaptor would have the same issue when used with the Oppo BDP-105? https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD821AM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter
Likewise with the non-Apple adaptor from Amazon that another member suggested further up in this thread?

Apple Music Hi-Res Audio Playback Methods Agglomeration

Pardon the “public radio vocabulary.” (Agglomeration = a bringing together, sort of. I had to use Google to find a single word for that.) Given the arduous and frustrating lengths that ASR members and others around the world have taken to get Lossless and/or Hi-Res audio out of the Apple...

www.audiosciencereview.com

2. Could you or another member recommend a good basic powered usb hub that I might try? It doesn't have to be audiophile-approved (Audioquest calling....).
Thank you.

 

[Zensō]

Thank you acbarn for your helpful reply. I thought the Apple adaptor was cumbersome enough on its own... adding a powered usb hub starts to sound kludge-squared. Ugh.

1. Would it be safe to assume that the $29 lightning-to-usb camera adaptor would have the same issue when used with the Oppo BDP-105? https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD821AM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter
Likewise with the non-Apple adaptor from Amazon that another member suggested further up in this thread?

Apple Music Hi-Res Audio Playback Methods Agglomeration

Pardon the “public radio vocabulary.” (Agglomeration = a bringing together, sort of. I had to use Google to find a single word for that.) Given the arduous and frustrating lengths that ASR members and others around the world have taken to get Lossless and/or Hi-Res audio out of the Apple...

www.audiosciencereview.com

2. Could you or another member recommend a good basic powered usb hub that I might try? It doesn't have to be audiophile-approved (Audioquest calling....).
Thank you.

1. Yes, I believe so. This seems to be an issue with the device, not the Apple adaptor.

2. John Seaber recommends this hub in the FAQs on the JDS site:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XMD7KPU/

It’s not powered though, so I’m not 100% convinced it would work for you. If you can easily return it to Amazon, you could order this one and the equivalent powered hub from Anker (below) and send back the one you don’t end up using.

https://www.amazon.com/Anker-7-Port-Adapter-Charging-iPhone/dp/B014ZQ07NE/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=Powered+usb+hub+Anker&qid=1633744505&s=electronics&sr=1-3

I’ve generally had good luck with Anker hubs.

 

[Zensō]

That’s helpful information. Thank you for the post.
I have a self powered DAC (Topping D10 Balanced) that won’t work even with a powered hub, but my JDS Atom does work. I think some just won’t function with an iOS handheld, no matter what you do.

I’m curious, which iOS device are you using with the D10?

 

[Tom C]

I’m curious, which iOS device are you using with the D10?

I tried iPhone 12 mini updated to iOS 15, and an old iPad Air 2 running iOS 14.7.1. Tried with low watt iPad power cube, higher watt iPhone power cube, and multi hub USB power strip. No luck.

 

[amadeuswus]

1. Yes, I believe so. This seems to be an issue with the device, not the Apple adaptor.

2. John Seaber recommends this hub in the FAQs on the JDS site:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XMD7KPU/

It’s not powered though, so I’m not 100% convinced it would work for you. If you can easily return it to Amazon, you could order this one and the equivalent powered hub from Anker (below) and send back the one you don’t end up using.

https://www.amazon.com/Anker-7-Port-Adapter-Charging-iPhone/dp/B014ZQ07NE/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=Powered+usb+hub+Anker&qid=1633744505&s=electronics&sr=1-3

I’ve generally had good luck with Anker hubs.

Not to turn this thread into my person Apple soap opera... but help!! Before getting a powered usb hub as @acbarn had advised upthread, I thought, why not try a simple usb-powered DAC I had put aside--a Schiit MODI. (Said in a stricken whisper.)

This is strange. Now I have digital output from iPad > Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adaptor > Schiit. But I have no control over volume. My iPad Mini 2 won't let me adjust volume from its right side buttons. When I press the volume buttons, nothing changes. It sounds to me like the IPad's volume is maxed out. (Fortunately the track I played was in a quiet spot.)

Thanks for any further guidance!

 

[Zensō]

Not to turn this thread into my person Apple soap opera... but help!! Before getting a powered usb hub as @acbarn had advised upthread, I thought, why not try a simple usb-powered DAC I had put aside--a Schiit MODI. (Said in a stricken whisper.)

This is strange. Now I have digital output from iPad > Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adaptor > Schiit. But I have no control over volume. My iPad Mini 2 won't let me adjust volume from its right side buttons. When I press the volume buttons, nothing changes. It sounds to me like the IPad's volume is maxed out. (Fortunately the track I played was in a quiet spot.)

Thanks for any further guidance!

This is the expected behavior. The assumption is that your Modi will either be feeding a headphone amp or preamp with a volume control.

 

[remlemasi]

That’s helpful information. Thank you for the post.
I have a self powered DAC (Topping D10 Balanced) that won’t work even with a powered hub, but my JDS Atom does work. I think some just won’t function with an iOS handheld, no matter what you do.

I’m curious, which iOS device are you using with the D10?

I tried iPhone 12 mini updated to iOS 15, and an old iPad Air 2 running iOS 14.7.1. Tried with low watt iPad power cube, higher watt iPhone power cube, and multi hub USB power strip. No luck.

I just received a Topping D10s and have some interesting observations after using it with my iPhone 12 Pro for a day.

• With the Lightning CCK adapter, the S/PDIF (coax, did not check optical) works fine WITHOUT an additional Lightning cable plugged into the adapter for power. However, the analog RCA outputs did not work. No sound.
• To get analog RCA output to work, I had to plug the USB from the DAC last. Both CCK and Lighting cable must be plugged in and fully acknowledged (green charging indicator) before plugging in the DAC. It does not matter if the CCK is plugged into the phone first or the Lightning cable is plugged into the CCK first. If this is done correctly, analog RCA outputs works fine to a power amp.
• Interestingly, if I unplug the DAC but leave the CCK and Lighting cable attached, but then replug in the DAC, it reverts to S/PDIF only. I need to either unplug/replug the CCK from the phone OR unplug/replug the Lightning cable from the CCK (doing both is not necessary), THEN replug the DAC before it will work again.
• You basically want power to flow from the Lightning cable direct to the DAC and the only way to make that happen is by following the steps above. I confirmed this is happening because if I unplug the Lightning cable with the full setup connected and working properly, I see the display on the D10s flash and reboot, indicating that it is switching power source from the Lightning cable to the phone battery, which is insufficient to power the analog RCA outputs.

With my iPad Pro, which uses a USB-C connector, there are no power limitations. Both S/PDIF and analog RCA outputs work just fine off of the internal battery. I used both a USB-C to USB-B cable and the included USB-A to USB-B cable with a USB-C to USB-A adapter.

Hope this helps and I'm curious to know if this solves your issue with the D10 Balanced.

 

[NiagaraPete]

I just received a Topping D10s and have some interesting observations after using it with my iPhone 12 Pro for a day.

• With the Lightning CCK adapter, the S/PDIF (coax, did not check optical) works fine WITHOUT an additional Lightning cable plugged into the adapter for power. However, the analog RCA outputs did not work. No sound.
• To get analog RCA output to work, I had to plug the USB from the DAC last. Both CCK and Lighting cable must be plugged in and fully acknowledged (green charging indicator) before plugging in the DAC. It does not matter if the CCK is plugged into the phone first or the Lightning cable is plugged into the CCK first. If this is done correctly, analog RCA outputs works fine to a power amp.
• Interestingly, if I unplug the DAC but leave the CCK and Lighting cable attached, but then replug in the DAC, it reverts to S/PDIF only. I need to either unplug/replug the CCK from the phone OR unplug/replug the Lightning cable from the CCK (doing both is not necessary), THEN replug the DAC before it will work again.
• You basically want power to flow from the Lightning cable direct to the DAC and the only way to make that happen is by following the steps above. I confirmed this is happening because if I unplug the Lightning cable with the full setup connected and working properly, I see the display on the D10s flash and reboot, indicating that it is switching power source from the Lightning cable to the phone battery, which is insufficient to power the analog RCA outputs.

With my iPad Pro, which uses a USB-C connector, there are no power limitations. Both S/PDIF and analog RCA outputs work just fine off of the internal battery. I used both a USB-C to USB-B cable and the included USB-A to USB-B cable with a USB-C to USB-A adapter.

Hope this helps and I'm curious to know if this solves your issue with the D10 Balanced.

Is this not explained here?

 

[remlemasi]

Is this not explained here?

Perhaps.... but that limitation might be assuming you are attempting to use power via the OTG interface, not via an external power source.

Additionally, my experience is with the D10s, which is single-ended, not the D10 Balanced, which might require more power for the differential output.

In any case, I am able to use the D10s with my iPhone, but only taking the steps I mentioned above. D10s with iPad Pro (USB-C) has no issues with or without external power.

 

[Tom C]

I just received a Topping D10s and have some interesting observations after using it with my iPhone 12 Pro for a day.

• With the Lightning CCK adapter, the S/PDIF (coax, did not check optical) works fine WITHOUT an additional Lightning cable plugged into the adapter for power. However, the analog RCA outputs did not work. No sound.
• To get analog RCA output to work, I had to plug the USB from the DAC last. Both CCK and Lighting cable must be plugged in and fully acknowledged (green charging indicator) before plugging in the DAC. It does not matter if the CCK is plugged into the phone first or the Lightning cable is plugged into the CCK first. If this is done correctly, analog RCA outputs works fine to a power amp.
• Interestingly, if I unplug the DAC but leave the CCK and Lighting cable attached, but then replug in the DAC, it reverts to S/PDIF only. I need to either unplug/replug the CCK from the phone OR unplug/replug the Lightning cable from the CCK (doing both is not necessary), THEN replug the DAC before it will work again.
• You basically want power to flow from the Lightning cable direct to the DAC and the only way to make that happen is by following the steps above. I confirmed this is happening because if I unplug the Lightning cable with the full setup connected and working properly, I see the display on the D10s flash and reboot, indicating that it is switching power source from the Lightning cable to the phone battery, which is insufficient to power the analog RCA outputs.

With my iPad Pro, which uses a USB-C connector, there are no power limitations. Both S/PDIF and analog RCA outputs work just fine off of the internal battery. I used both a USB-C to USB-B cable and the included USB-A to USB-B cable with a USB-C to USB-A adapter.

Hope this helps and I'm curious to know if this solves your issue with the D10 Balanced.

Well, that was a dandy bit of detective work on your part! It works perfectly, if I follow your method. Thanks so much!

 

[remlemasi]

Well, that was a dandy bit of detective work on your part! It works perfectly, if I follow your method. Thanks so much!

Awesome! Glad I could help.

 

[Transmaniacon]

Just to add my experiences here:

I stream Apple Music Hi-Res Lossless from my iPhone 6S+ to my Topping D30 via the USB3 powered camera adapter. It’s the genuine apple one that’s like $30, and it will work without being plugged in to the wall, but I keep it plugged in so it’s charged up. I don’t have a way to verify the sampling rate but it should be passing full 24/192 audio when available.

Previously I was using Airplay2 to stream to my Apple Airport Express connected via optical to the D30. I feel like there is less noise when using the USB connection from my iPhone, but it could be placebo effect.

The one downside however is convenience. Sometimes I like to browse around and play various songs, and with my iPhone player sitting on my audio rack, I have to stand there and find a song without being able to do so while in my listening position. For playing a whole album, it’s fine, but I have a Bluetooth remote on the way today and it should let me play/pause/skip tracks, adjust volumes on my iPhone while sitting down. I’ll let everyone know how it works, I hope apple introduces Airplay3 that allows full hi-res lossless streaming so I can go back to wireless.

Edit: here is the remote: Satechi R2 Bluetooth Multimedia Remote Control – Presentation & Media Mode – Compatible with MacBook Pro 2020, 2020 MacBook Air M1, 2020 iPad Air, 2020 iPad Pro https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08VF1VJRB/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_WSYMJZMNSPRX6FK85DY6

 

[Transmaniacon]

I got the Satechi R2 remote in, and it's surpisingly nice for the $35 I paid for it. I can play/pause, change the volume, skip tracks, and pull up Siri to find new things in Apple Music. It plugs in to charge like other Apple remotes using USB-C, and feels very premium with the aluminum case. It paired with my iPhone 6S+ right away and is very responsive.

I think this will be my long term streaming solution as I can do just about everything I need to do while seated with a nice glass of bourbon. Highly recommend one of these if you need a way to control your iPad/iPhone from a distance.

 

[Sal1950]

Wish I could add some knowledge to this thread but I'm totally Apple ignorant and run Linux on the desktop.
When Apple came out with all the Atmos and multich music I knew I had to have it so I purchased a Gen 1 4k box for $100. I just plugged the HDMI cable into my Marantz pre/pro and I was in business.. Almost. I hate this remote and the whole Apple UI for Apple Music.
When I really want to search for something I'll fire up the browser access in Firebox and type in what I want on the keyboard. Then I'll get a email from them complaining that I'm accessing my account from 2 different devices and I need to upgrade to Family to do this. LOL, NOT
I'm perfectly happy with the stereo sound quality and thrilled with the Atmos and Dolby Surround multich files.
Still keeping my fingers crossed that Spotify will bring something similar out and I can go back to using their great UI to play the music I love.

 

[Zensō]

I got the Satechi R2 remote in, and it's surpisingly nice for the $35 I paid for it. I can play/pause, change the volume, skip tracks, and pull up Siri to find new things in Apple Music. It plugs in to charge like other Apple remotes using USB-C, and feels very premium with the aluminum case. It paired with my iPhone 6S+ right away and is very responsive.

I think this will be my long term streaming solution as I can do just about everything I need to do while seated with a nice glass of bourbon. Highly recommend one of these if you need a way to control your iPad/iPhone from a distance.

View attachment 169934

That’s really cool, and makes for a really compact and clean system.