Apple lossless official announcement

[Rottmannash]

Wow didn't know Spotify has never made a profit! That's wild, considering mostly what I hear is that Spotify doesn't pay artists enough, but maybe it simply can't? Assuming they're already in the red paying artists what they do now...

I don't think any of the streaming services turn a profit on their own. But I could be wrong.

 

[_thelaughingman]

Not me. I don't care for the Apple ecosystem and will persist with Qobuz for as long as it's available in the US.

I feel like qobuz is going to be the last bastion of genuine hi res offerings and that’ll be the only place to buy good stuff

 

[Ata]

I was referring more to the UI/UX perspective and the delivery architecture (i.e. bridge, endpoints, etc.).

I agree about the lack of Apple Music Connect-like feature. As for endpoints and bridges, there are likely more Airplay/Airplay2 compatible devices than any other technology out there. If one accepts that they don't need more than 48K/16-bit sound, this should meet their needs sound quality wise.

Or am I missing something?

 

[wgb113]

Same reason we car guys obsess over having a 200 mph capable car in a 70 mph world. LOL

My point exactly.

 

[Slayer]

I don't think any of the streaming services turn a profit on their own. But I could be wrong.

That's just crazy. It's simple big business knowing how to work the system. Make yourself an employee, pay yourself an astronomical salary and declare the company has not made a profit. Simple way to cheat the system, it's done in all countries around the world.

Take one of the founders, Daniel Ek, look at his net worth before Spotify. Now look at his net worth, spoiler- Billions. He is now even wanting to buy a football club.
No profit LOL.

 

[restorer-john]

it's going to be really difficult to come up with A vs B numbers, but 50% of the world is connected to the internet. meaning that 50% of the population on this world has access to music via youtube or spotify at least.

reading further between the lines, green house gases emissions from the music industry is indeed record high, it is fair to assume that consumption is equivalently rising.

source: https://pitchfork.com/news/emissions-from-music-consumption-reach-unprecedented-high-study-shows/

As for my point for the artists making peanuts out of the music itself.

'The research also shows that while the environmental cost of music consumption has never been higher, the price consumers are willing to pay for music has never been lower. In 1997, consumers were willing to pay roughly 4.83% of an average weekly salary. That percentage decreased to roughly 1.22% of an average weekly salary in 2013. Since the advent of streaming, the research shows that consumers now pay only just over 1% of their weekly salary to listen to a vast library of music.'

Interesting, but somewhat flawed "research" IMO.

When people were buying/consuming/listening to physical music on walkmans, FM/cassette, portable CD-Discmans, they were buying and disposing of billions of toxic, single use batteries in landfill every single year. Nobody was recycling them. Even all those millions of NiCad and NiMH AAs went into landfill after a short time. And the players themselves. Don't see much consideration for that environmental impact do we? We now have Li-Ion batteries in our portable devices which have a much greater energy density and a much longer life. They are also actively recycled. We carry a single device for our music, instead of multiple devices for multiple formats. More efficient, less waste and lower materials cost and energy usage to produce in the first place.

The classic percentage of income comparison is flawed too IMO. It's not an apples to apples comparison as there are new players, new technologies and a complete shift in the delivery and scope of electronic entertainment. In 1997, high speed data lines were the province of businesses and the only way to get music via the internet was perhaps a low quality mp3 over a dialup connection which took 4 times longer to download than listen to. No option for streaming real time content of audio, letalone video. Monitors were 640x480 or maybe 1024x768 if you were lucky, dialup was 33.6k or 56k and computers were still 486s or early Pentiums, and they were expensive.

You had the radio (free) and CDs (expensive). Not a lot of choice so people paid the money.

For me, I paid my way in the CD era and have the t-shirt (and the CDs to prove it). I'll never get on a subscription model for music. I like the ownership and usage rights that come with physical media.

 

[mongobot]

I may have missed it but now that lossless / hi-res is officially going to be supported, I wonder if the ability to have sample rate and bit depth adjusted on the fly will be part of the implementation.
On the desktop this has required the use of third party apps such as "BitPerfect"...

 

[dmac6419]

That's just crazy. It's simple big business knowing how to work the system. Make yourself an employee, pay yourself an astronomical salary and declare the company has not made a profit. Simple way to cheat the system, it's done in all countries around the world.

Take one of the founders, Daniel Ek, look at his net worth before Spotify. Now look at his net worth, spoiler- Billions. He is now even wanting to buy a football club.
No profit LOL.

He worth money on paper,Spotify close tomorrow he's broke.

 

[Ata]

This may be a mundane comment but I have to get it off my chest...

The metaphor that comes to mind regaring this announcement is "Apple has gone nuclear when it comes to music". Why? Because of the combination of the following:

1. Because it will offer lossless at no extra cost;
2. Because it has better device playback infrastructure that few if any of its competitors have (think Apple TVs and Airplay/Airplay2 compatible devices), and it owns a whole ecosystem;
3. Because it will also provide High Resolution, for those who care;
4. Because it is available on all platforms that matter (Windows, Mac, iOS, Android, ChromeOS, web);
5. Because they have embraced multi-channel music, Dolby Atmos being arguably a great choice for it.

It is also a puzzling decision on Apple's part, as it does not fit with Apple's long-term stance on AAC vs lossless, and none of their current (wireless) headphones and speakers support lossless, though some support surround sound. It feels like a hasty move to neutralise Spotify's move to lossless, rather than a pre-meditated strategy to appease the audiophile community.

 

[_thelaughingman]

This may be a mundane comment but I have to get it off my chest...

The metaphor that comes to mind regaring this announcement is "Apple has gone nuclear when it comes to music". Why? Because of the combination of the following:

1. Because it will offer lossless at no extra cost;
2. Because it has better device playback infrastructure that few if any of its competitors have (think Apple TVs and Airplay/Airplay2 compatible devices), and it owns a whole ecosystem;
3. Because it will also provide High Resolution, for those who care;
4. Because it is available on all platforms that matter (Windows, Mac, iOS, Android, ChromeOS, web);
5. Because they have embraced multi-channel music, Dolby Atmos being arguably a great choice for it.

It is also a puzzling decision on Apple's part, as it does not fit with Apple's long-term stance on AAC vs lossless, and none of their current (wireless) headphones and speakers support lossless, though some support surround sound. It feels like a hasty move to neutralise Spotify's move to lossless, rather than a pre-meditated strategy to appease the audiophile community.

This is all part of the product strategy to become the biggest name in entertainment to make movies and shows that are on Apple TV+ and music for Apple Music. Having the framework in place bit by bit Will enable Apple to fight off competition such as Prime, Netflix and Spotify.

 

[JuliaCoder]

This fits Apple's need to keep up with camera quality and their need to be the leader in audio and video editing. I also think fears of Apple putting hi res DACs in their phones, pads and laptops can be put aside until they can be shrunk to the size of their current DACs. They could offer an ultimate soundcard for desktops though.

 

[_thelaughingman]

This fits Apple's need to keep up with camera quality and their need to be the leader in audio and video editing. I also think fears of Apple putting hi res DACs in their phones, pads and laptops can be put aside until they can be shrunk to the size of their current DACs. They could offer an ultimate soundcard for desktops though.

As a former Apple Genius, it used to drive me nuts that the latest technology was not incorporated into Apple products. But overtime the design philosophy and functionality purpose of products clicked in to place. You are correct, until that DAC can be fit into the a small form of iphone and the thermal and power draw is optimized Apple will not put it into their products.

 

[oryan_dunn]

This fits Apple's need to keep up with camera quality and their need to be the leader in audio and video editing. I also think fears of Apple putting hi res DACs in their phones, pads and laptops can be put aside until they can be shrunk to the size of their current DACs. They could offer an ultimate soundcard for desktops though.

They are already that small. The DAC in the $9 dongle has a 24/192 DAC.

 

[Ata]

This fits Apple's need to keep up with camera quality and their need to be the leader in audio and video editing. I also think fears of Apple putting hi res DACs in their phones, pads and laptops can be put aside until they can be shrunk to the size of their current DACs. They could offer an ultimate soundcard for desktops though.

Hi Res DACs no longer carry the premium they once had. Apple Macs have had 96/24 capable DACs for many years.

I am not on top of latest DAC chip footprints and thermals, but if Apple orders one from AKM/Cirrus/ESS, they will get it, within a year. Heck, they will probably build it into their next SoC.

 

[oryan_dunn]

Future AirPods update may enable Lossless audio via AirPlay

From the article:

The rumor: Streaming audio to AirPods will get a major update in the future, according to Jon Prosser (77.8% accurate) on the Genius Bar podcast.

• While Bluetooth is too technically limited to support lossless audio streaming, a different codec or firmware update could be released in the future to support the higher bandwidth needed to stream HiFi audio on AirPods
• Apple confirmed yesterday that no AirPods currently support lossless audio in any way, but used the word “currently”

Our take: Before announcing AirTag, Apple announced a broader Find My Network with support for 3rd party accessories: Prosser suggests that in light of recent anti-trust investigations, Apple is doing the same thing here. Announce support for lossless audio that works with 3rd-party devices weeks ahead of announcing a new proprietary Apple format for streaming HiFi music. To me, this makes a lot of sense as there’s no way Apple would intentionally misfire this intentionally.

I don't believe any current Airpods or Beats have Wifi, and since Bluetooth doesn't have the bandwidth, that leaves ultra wideband.

 

[blueone]

For me, I paid my way in the CD era and have the t-shirt (and the CDs to prove it). I'll never get on a subscription model for music. I like the ownership and usage rights that come with physical media.

I think your argument has merit, and I own, oh I don't know, about 2500 CDs, but for about the price of a new CD every month with streaming I get a really efficient and convenient way to sample different music than I own. Especially what I'll lump into a lot of modern jazz and popular music that I usually don't want to buy unless I love it, which isn't often and the liking is often ephemeral too. Personally, I think streaming from my iPad to my music system has reignited my listening, which had been declining over the years. And 16/44.1 is just fine for me, so all of this Hi-Res controversy can just pass me by.

 

[amper42]

I buy all the music I really love, but I find the ability to sample any song I read about via Qobuz is a wonderful option. The combination of CD ownership and streaming high quality music when desired is the best of both worlds. I can't imagine being without either one.

 

[restorer-john]

I think your argument has merit, and I own, oh I don't know, about 2500 CDs, but for about the price of a new CD every month with streaming I get a really efficient and convenient way to sample different music than I own. Especially what I'll lump into a lot of modern jazz and popular music that I usually don't want to buy unless I love it, which isn't often and the liking is often ephemeral too. Personally, I think streaming from my iPad to my music system has reignited my listening, which had been declining over the years. And 16/44.1 is just fine for me, so all of this Hi-Res controversy can just pass me by.

Totally agree and I may go down the streaming path one day when I get bored with my physical music. Especially when physical music isn't being made anymore (as it seems to be diminishing rapidly), I won't have a choice if I want to hear new stuff.

 

[Sal1950]

Not me. I don't care for the Apple ecosystem and will persist with Qobuz for as long as it's available in the US.

Same here, never owned anything Apple AFAIR. Computer wise i started on PC/Windoz but went Linux around 2000 and never looked back.

 

[Kalessin]

Since the only streaming service that I'm using is Apple Music, I'm happy with this news.

Except... I have decent 2.1 sound with the MacBook Pro headphone jack, Aiyima A07 and an old pair of Gallo Micros with a matching passive Gallo sub. A little equalization and they rock my little work-from-home office.

My wallet is cringing.. since I'm not into wearing headphones during my workday, I might need to build.. let me see here... 5.1.2 or 7.1.2 in a space roughly 5'w x 6'd x 7.5'h.. so that's a DAC/processor, enough more channels of amplification, let's say two or three more Gallo Micros (I have three extra ones, plus one that needs a driver replacement), and some wall brackets and ceiling mounts, software to get it all sounding right and... oh, I'm sure there's some other things I'm forgetting...