Apple lossless official announcement

[Thomas_bati]

No. Apple had a job posting a while back for a native Apple Music on Windows solution (iTunes replacement)

I haven't found anything online about Apple music for Windows. would you have something to send me?

 

[Taddpole]

I haven't found anything online about Apple music for Windows. would you have something to send me?

https://9to5mac.com/2021/01/14/appl...sic-and-podcasts-apps-on-microsoft-store/amp/

 

[vhild§]

I use an SMSL sanskrit 10th mkii and I also have a Loxjie D30 and it works with this too. They have both external power, so there is no problem with draining power from iphone.

I remember when I connected for the first time the iphone to the smsl dac through Apple cck, and i couldn't figure it out why it wasn't working.
I'm 100% serious, the problem was the volume of my iphone, too low, and nothing audible was coming out from my speaker. After more than an hour I turn the volume up from iphone and everything was ok...never felt that stupid in my life.

Eureka! I pumped up the volume on my iPhone and presto! Pro-Ject Head Box S2 Digital now works with iPhone and Apple Music. Thanks!

 

[mononoaware]

This is more interesting to me currently than Apple’s Atmos “Spatial Audio” through AirPods.

I know Sony is not quite what they used to be but still. . .
And there is no mention of “Atmos” branding. Great !

 

[kuka7]

Eureka! I pumped up the volume on my iPhone and presto! Pro-Ject Head Box S2 Digital now works with iPhone and Apple Music. Thanks!

Welcome to the club!
You feel a little bit stupid now, don't you?

 

[chelgrian]

The version that got downloaded looks to be the audio-atmos-2768 as well as the audio-stereo-256 version.

Another could of points from reading some stuff written by someone doing Atmos mixes targeting Apple Music.

The first is the bitrates are just too low which results in swirly mush in the decoded height channels apparently it sounds like the artefacts in early MP3 encoders. Resulting in the advice from the engineer never to solo the height channels (at least when playing back the encoded version) when the client is in the room.

The second is that whatever Apple is doing for binaural mixes they are entirely throwing away the distance metadata used to hint to the binaural render if an object is in the near mid or far field and treating everything as mid field.

It's unclear if this is intentional on Apple's part or why they would do this if it is intentional.

 

[hmscott]

This may be the "other shoe" to drop in the support of "Lossless Audio" over Bluetooth:

Qualcomm adds Bluetooth Lossless Audio Technology to Snapdragon Sound | Qualcomm

We'd need new headphones at least, probably new devices as well, and a more robust implementation that doesn't need to adapt speed to RF conditions would be best.

CD quality lossless, but Higher-Res would be lossy compress over the new implementation, so still not a >CD Hi-Res solution.

 

[Oceanvibe]

Not sure if it would have been better to open a new thread, but I’ll try here first.
Been having a few issues with playback from Apple Music. I get a static hissing type of sound during playback. All my Apple devices are up to date with the latest firmware.
I’m either airplaying from an iPhone to Apple TV 4K or playing directly from the Apple TV. I use the hdmi output on the Apple TV to feed the digital signa to my tv, and from there, optical output into the dac/amp/speakers.
Any idea what might be going on?

 

[chelgrian]

This may be the "other shoe" to drop in the support of "Lossless Audio" over Bluetooth:

Qualcomm adds Bluetooth Lossless Audio Technology to Snapdragon Sound | Qualcomm

We'd need new headphones at least, probably new devices as well, and a more robust implementation that doesn't need to adapt speed to RF conditions would be best.

CD quality lossless, but Higher-Res would be lossy compress over the new implementation, so still not a >CD Hi-Res solution.

It can't actually be always lossless. The problem is that you will always have problem samples which simply don't compress enough and Bluetooth can't do even the 1.5Mbit needed for uncompressed stereo CD quality under the best conditions you get around 1Mbit so to prevent audio dropouts all of these things over Bluetooth have to have a lossy fall back.

AptX lossless isn't new it existed as long ago as 2009 before Qualcomm bought A

https://www.fast-and-wide.com/images/stories/White_papers/apt-x-lossless.pdf

What is new is implementing it over Bluetooth.

 

[mononoaware]

I use the hdmi output on the Apple TV to feed the digital signa to my tv, and from there, optical output into the dac/amp/speakers.
Any idea what might be going on?

I understand your signal path is ATV>HDMI cable>TV>Optical cable>DAC.
Firstly I am aware that HDMI is known for being a noisy connection due to its design.
It might be your TV which is in between causing the issue, either resampling/converting or reclocking the signal.
It could be that your TV is adding high amounts of jitter to the signal giving your DAC a tough time.
What model DAC do you have? Does your DAC have DPLL setting which you can adjust? This usually helps with the jitter problem when using with TV.

In my previous setup I used ATV3>Optical cable>DAC and never experienced any issues with audio quality.
ATV3 was the last model to have optical output and still receives security updates to this day. You may want to try finding one for cheap as an alternate solution.

 

[mononoaware]

Bluetooth can't do even the 1.5Mbit needed for uncompressed stereo CD quality

I agree. In my opinion the best you are going to get with Bluetooth is LDAC with forced high bitrate mode (under developer settings on Android) and it is not technically Lossless.
Bluetooth simply does not have the throughput for Lossless.

 

[jae]

So Android app now has all the same bells and whistles as the iOS version: Lossless, hi-res and Atmos. The only and major trouble is Android’s internal sampling, which basically prevents getting bit perfect hi-res out of Android.

Earlier in this thread people were calling for a Class Action Suit against Apple for not allowing full access to their hardware capabilities. Here we have Android inhibiting that in a different way and yet those people are quiet.

Apple and Google aren’t significantly better or worse in comparison to each other when it comes to their business practices, so I never got those feuds.

Possible to bypass this by rooting

 

[Oceanvibe]

I understand your signal path is ATV>HDMI cable>TV>Optical cable>DAC.
Firstly I am aware that HDMI is known for being a noisy connection due to its design.
It might be your TV which is in between causing the issue, either resampling/converting or reclocking the signal.
It could be that your TV is adding high amounts of jitter to the signal giving your DAC a tough time.
What model DAC do you have? Does your DAC have DPLL setting which you can adjust? This usually helps with the jitter problem when using with TV.

In my previous setup I used ATV3>Optical cable>DAC and never experienced any issues with audio quality.
ATV3 was the last model to have optical output and still receives security updates to this day. You may want to try finding one for cheap as an alternate solution.

many thanks for your reply!

I originally had a different signal path but with the same error. ATV > HDMI > Audio Extractor > optical cable > dac.
I removed the audio extractor as I thought it was maybe the problem, but I get the same issue through the TV.


I can’t change the dac settings unfortunately, it’s built into my speakers (avi dm10).

I have temporarily switched over to quobuz and I’m not having any issues.
I may try signing out of Apple Music on the ATV and just airplaying to it - haven’t tried that.

 

[mononoaware]

I may try signing out of Apple Music on the ATV and just airplaying to it - haven’t tried that.

I incorrectly thought you were using AirPlay from your first comment.

Regarding Apple Music, I remember from the moment they introduced the Atmos/Spatial Audio option on Apple Music that there were a few bugs affecting Apple Music playback.
Make sure your Apple devices are updated to the latest iOS/tvOS as I recall they fixed the issues with updates.

 

[BitPerfect_]

You can stream Apple Music to an RPi running Ropieee XL via Airplay.

You’ll need a HAT or rPi as is?
Will deliver 16/44.1 bit perfect? Thanks,

 

[Zensō]

You’ll need a HAT or rPi as is?
Will deliver 16/44.1 bit perfect? Thanks,

Rpi as is, if you have a USB DAC (USB out is solved on the Rpi4). If you don’t, you can add a DAC HAT for analog output.

Ropieee is using Shairport Sync which is an open source version of Airplay 1. It will perform exactly the same as Airplay 1.

If you’re interested in Ropieee, this is an excellent guide: https://codexwilkes.com/downloads/ropieee-guide-for-beginners.pdf

 

[BitPerfect_]

I guess not but … using this configuration will be possible to deliver more than 16/44.1 (e.g 24/192)?

iPhone Apple Music > rPi with Ropieee (XL) which is AirPlay 1 according to your post > usb out > DAC

I am interested to find a way to emulate the iPhone and to control the rPi for example with the iPad. Using the iPhone/ iPad via USB we are able to achieve 24/192 as we already know.

 

[Zensō]

I guess not but … using this configuration will be possible to deliver more than 16/44.1 (e.g 24/192)?

iPhone Apple Music > rPi with Ropieee (XL) which is AirPlay 1 according to your post > usb out > DAC

I am interested to find a way to emulate the iPhone and to control the rPi for example with the iPad. Using the iPhone/ iPad via USB we are able to achieve 24/192 as we already know.

Airplay will not deliver 24/192 in any configuration. According to a couple of fairly reliable sources, Airplay 2 now maxes out at 24/48, Airplay 1 at 16/44.1.

I’m pretty sure what you’re trying to do is not possible. Hardwired from the source device is the only way.

 

[BitPerfect_]

Thanks, all clear now.

 

[amper42]

Airplay will not deliver 24/192 in any configuration. According to a couple of fairly reliable sources, Airplay 2 now maxes out at 24/48, Airplay 1 at 16/44.1.

I’m pretty sure what you’re trying to do is not possible. Hardwired from the source device is the only way.

While Airplay is limited to CD quality, you can use JRiver, Roon or Audirvana software with a laptop computer over UPnP connection to support 192Hz HiRes music wirelessly with the RPi4 using Moode or Ropieee. I prefer this method as HiRes 24/192 music files are not compressed during playback.