Apple lossless official announcement

[Red@]

I am not sure that lossless will make people drop Spotify. Their interface and predictions are good and the envy of the Music Streaming Industry.
I am somewhat surprised by my stance toward lossless: I no longer care about it. Now I have lost all of my previously diminished audiophiles creds

And ... I am not alone. I would dare advance that less than 5% Apple Music subscribers care one bit about lossless.

This comment would be more appropriate in other subjective forums.

In my case and all of my close entourage, we are all migrating from spotify to apple music because of the 24/48 for the same price (in my specific case, I also finally have an alternative to tidal, so I just cancelled their subscription too).

In general, I agree that people who do not have high performing equipments (good dedicated dac + good dedicated amp (if needed) + very resolving headphones (which pro max are not) will probably not notice a difference. But that doesn't mean they won't care.
Shifting the entire mass consumer focused music industry towards 24/48 will push audio manufacurers to up their game too, so will probably see in the next 5 years a dramatic decrease in the price of hifi equipments because of that.

And let's not invent numbers (5%) to make an impact shall we.

 

[sabbot]

practically every Atmos track is downmixed, regardless of how many channels you have. (well unless you have 32 channels)

when you mix using Atmos you don't mix for channels but rather objects (32 objects in this case) that are 'represented' through your setup's channels.

an Atmos track can be decoded to any number of channels, thus all Atmos tracks are mono, stereo and multichannel at the same time. and it sounds quite good on stereo imo.

Sure, these are downmixed to whatever setup is used, but is this process under "artistic control" so that the result can be the same as in a genuine stereo mix? I still would like to have the choice. On top of that there is still the open question of which stream will be provided lossless.

 

[abdo123]

Sure, these are downmixed to whatever setup is used, but is this process under "artistic control" so that the result can be the same as in a genuine stereo mix? I still would like to have the choice.

I actually rather we don't have that choice.

instead of spending resources on two different masters (one for stereo and one for multichannel) effectively making multichannel absolutely nonexistent as a result (because it's not economically feasible). I'm in full support of industry wide adoption of object based audio, everyone gets a piece of the pie this way.

 

[Red@]

I actually rather we don't have that choice.

instead of spending resources on two different masters (one for stereo and one for multichannel) effectively making multichannel absolutely nonexistent as a result (because it's not economically feasible). I'm in full support of industry wide adoption of object based audio, everyone gets a piece of the pie this way.

As long as the reproduction in a basic stereo set-up is well tested, then it makes a lot of sens.
It's just that it is not always the case at the moment in my extreamly limited experience with surround.

 

[FrantzM]

This comment would be more appropriate in other subjective forums.

In my case and all of my close entourage, we are all migrating from spotify to apple music beceause of the 24/48 for the same price (in my specific case, I also finally have an alternative to tidal, so I just cancelled their subscription too).

In general, I agree that people who do not have high performing equipments (good dedicated dac + good dedicated amp (if needed) + very resolving headphones (which pro max are not) will probably not notice a difference. But that doesn't mean they won't care.
Shifting the entire mass consumer focused music industry towards 24/48 will push audio manufacurers to up their game too, so will probably see in the next 5 years a dramatic decrease in the price of hifi equipments beceause of that.

And let's not invent numbers (5%) to make an impact shall we.

Do you expect to hear a difference?
Have you subjected yourself to a test , somewhere here on here, to verify that you can reliably distinguish 320 mb/s mp3 from lossless?
I have objectively good equipment, some of these superlative objectively and Subjectively:
HiFiMan HE6
HiFIMan HE-560
Stax SR-007 with its SS Energizer
JDS Labs Atom Amplifier
Khadas Tone Board and Topping D-10 for DACs. I went to the Topping because the Khadas was ugly and the case was broken... Not sonic differences: There are none, Sciences says :There can't be any

I can't reliably distinguish using Foobar ABX app mp3 320 from lossless.

You are however right 5%, is an invented number. I would guess the real number to be closer to 2%

 

[Jimbob54]

I think they're offering up to 192/24 as long as the publisher provides it.

I would hazard a guess there may be some form of fee/higher tier for anything above the new lossless. They don't say hi res is included in the no extra fee tier.

 

[abdo123]

Do you expect to hear a difference?

Tbh clipping is a huge issue in lossy formats, any sounds that 'gently' clips the track (like clapping or drums) can be completely botched on lossy formats.

Likewise i used to think 320kbps was good enough, then i accidently noticed the difference and now i can never unhear it.

 

[FrantzM]

Tbh clipping is a huge issue in lossy formats, any sounds that 'gently' clips the track (like clapping or drums) can be completely botched on lossy formats.

Likewise i used to think 320kbps was good enough, then i accidently noticed the difference and now i can never unhear it.

I am not saying that there aren't conditions under which you could detect the differences. True. I need however to ask you under what Protocol you conducted those tests. if it was not blind, it's not valid.

 

[Red@]

Do you expect to hear a difference?
Have you subjected yourself to a test , somewhere here on here, to verify that you can reliably distinguish 320 mb/s mp3 from lossless?
I have objectively good equipment, some of these superlative objectively and Subjectively:
HiFiMan HE6
HiFIMan HE-560
Stax SR-007 with its SS Energizer
JDS Labs Atom Amplifier
Khadas Tone Board and Topping D-10 for DACs. I went to the Topping because the Khadas was ugly and the case was broken... Not sonic differences: There are none, Sciences says :There can't be any

I can't reliably distinguish using Foobar ABX app mp3 320 from lossless.

You are however right 5%, is an invented number. I would guess the real number to be closer to 2%

Hahaha 2% is more like it

I do have good high res files: when listening in high volume (either in speaker set-up or more frequently in headphones setup) I can without any shred of doubt recognise an mp3 compressed file as it gets heavily distorded to my ears.
In low volume it gets a lot harder depending on the quality of the master itself

 

[Red@]

Tbh clipping is a huge issue in lossy formats, any sounds that 'gently' clips the track (like clapping or drums) can be completely botched on lossy formats.

Likewise i used to think 320kbps was good enough, then i accidently noticed the difference and now i can never unhear it.

Very well put. I do have the same experience myself when blind testing.
The high frequencies are also cut off, Which alter the experience (depending on age)

 

[blueone]

Is airplay 2 similarly restricted? Been a while since I did Apple.

I believe it is.

 

[Jim Matthews]

This is great progress. Will have to seriously consider what to do about my Qobuz plan

Just don't expect a refund.

My first, and only experience with their customer support was not positive.

 

[Andysu]

So this apple lossless will it have Star Wars released in 70mm (uncompressed audio) six-track Dolby Stereo A-type so that we can all get a flashback that we have all been begging for last 25 years. ... I think somehow Not. appel can shove their fruit up its .... I couldn't care less about that evil company or windows evil company they both parasites.

 

[mrbungle]

in this case your phone (iPad, Apple TV .etc) will decode Atmos to whichever channel setup you have.

you don't need an 'Atmos Setup'.

I assume with the supported AirPods, the sound is fixed when you move your head? Sounds gimmicky, but probably still fun.

 

[Zensō]

I assume with the supported AirPods, the sound is fixed when you move your head? Sounds gimmicky, but probably still fun.

Yes, this is correct. I’ve tried it on a few AppleTV+ movies using my Airpods Max, it’s pretty fun. Definitely more immersive.

 

[Red@]

Very well put. I do have the same experience myself when blind testing.
The high frequencies are also cut off, Which alter the experience (depending on age)

@FrantzM @abdo123 I would like to add that there are some lossless formated masters that are heavily compressed (in electronic music for exemple), as we saw in amir's videos for instance.
In my opinion, you will indeed not hear any difference in sound for those songs no matter the format chosen.

 

[tmtomh]

I would hazard a guess there may be some form of fee/higher tier for anything above the new lossless. They don't say hi res is included in the no extra fee tier.

The only footnote about high-res in the press release is that it requires additional equipment (outboard DAC etc). Anything is possible, but it seems like high res is also included, just not supported with Apple-only stock hardware.

 

[sabbot]

I don't care anymore about lossless as there won't be any relevant service thats not offering it, it's the standard, making this point obsolete when selecting an streaming service. That's how I understood @FrantzM anyways, and I definitely agree with that. AppUX on the other hand is a different topic...

 

[Soniclife]

The only footnote about high-res in the press release is that it requires additional equipment (outboard DAC etc). Anything is possible, but it seems like high res is also included, just not supported with Apple-only stock hardware.

I read their careful wording as there are at least 2 tiers.

 

[Jimbob54]

The only footnote about high-res in the press release is that it requires additional equipment (outboard DAC etc). Anything is possible, but it seems like high res is also included, just not supported with Apple-only stock hardware.

I'm sure all will become clear