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Four different iDevices I have - iPhone 6, iPhone 8, iPad Mini 2nd gen, and iPad 8th gen - all output up to 24/198 through its Lightning port (which is essentially a USB) to four different brands/models of USB DACs. Do it either through Qobuz or Tidal streaming apps, or as a Roon end-device running Roon app. Worked like this for years.
Wow, that's about how long it's been since I've own a Macintosh, before the Macintosh M1.
What about the iPhone/iPads? Are they still stuck at 48khz/96khz?
My last daily carry Macbook was the last 17" model.
Sorry for the confusion, I'm happy it's been working all this time...and you have been using Apple Music at 48k/96k [all those 20 years] since June 2015?
Now, if you all could find a solution for those AppleID problems, I'd sure appreciate it
So when did Apple devices start supporting 24/192?
And you all have been using Apple Music at 48k/96k all those 20 years?
Anyway, I'm glad Apple has finally gotten around to unlocking access to 24/192 Apple Music to match Apple's own devices' capabilities.
I checked and my Windows Apple iTunes App let me log in with my AppleID without complaining that I need to Unlock my AppleID again, so maybe Apple fixed that too?
I didn't ask the same question, I asked where you used the Dragonfly. You didn't say which hardware you used it. So you swap that Dragonfly between all of your Apple devices? Or, do you only use it on one one of them mostly? Does one work better (higher / lower bitrate) than the others?
Good for you not getting locked in by Apple's iTunes walled garden. Everytime I ask people why they keep buying Apple hardware they say they are locked in by iTunes, with thousands of $ of money tied up in Apple hardware, software, and Media. So they feel like they can't afford to stop buying Apple hardware.
Ok, starting to narrow in on when 24/192 support started working
Here's a post in Apple Forums of someone verifying 24/96k output in Sept 2018, after an iOS update:
24bit/192kHz Support - Apple Community
It's nice that, with recent iOS updates, recent iPhones (including the 6S) can now play 24bit / 96 kHz music. I was able to verify this with my Chord Hugo 2 - which bypasses the internal DAC and amp and also provides a visual indicator of the sampling rate (red = 44 kHz; green = 96 kHz, etc.).
Sadly, my true-audiophile 24-bit/192 kHz recordings are still not supported. When attempting to sync my Mac iTunes recordings I get error messages that the sampling rate isn't supported (this was also the case on my new iPhone XS).
Given that it is possible to bypass the internal DAC, I would assume that playback limitations must be software-, and not hardware related. Since many of us do now use external DACs, it would be really great if Apple could support higher-resolution recordings.
(The sample rate does make a big difference. This is because the human ear is very sensitive to transients down to about 8 µs - whereas CD-quality sound only resolves down to 23 µs - transients let one define the start and end of notes, as well as spacial information: the phase difference between Left and Right channels for example; better sampling opens up a wider soundstage with more detailed presentations and one can really hear the string tone in orchestral recordings.)
iPhone Xs, iOS 12
Posted on Sep 25, 2018 2:48 AM
So far all I see mentioned from Apple about 24/192k is this:
If somebody else knows when the 24/192k Apple hardware support began, please let us know...I'll keep looking...
Was it really as recently as 12 months ago?
How to play hi-res music on your iPhone | What Hi-Fi? (whathifi.com)
"Deep13 06 June 2020 17:56
I am using Fiio btr5 as usb dac on my ipad pro 2018 & Galaxy S9+. On ipad usb connection btr5 says 44.1khz and with Galaxy S9+ it says 384khz. I am tring to figure out how to enable ipad usb connection to stream music at 384khz. Using Tidal on both, playing the same song 'Mr Self Destruct' by 'Nine inch Nails' master quality audio album on tidal, btr5 with ipad says 88 khz and with galaxy s9+ says 192 khz, why is this difference?
Sound wise galaxy s9+ bass imact is less than ipad and sounds seems more clear and soothing on s9+ comparitively, both connected usb with btr5.
So i confused if usb connection is using only btr5's dac why is there difference sample rate?"
Maybe it was only newer hardware after 2018?
Well, at least todays new Apple hardware is supported.
I think in this case it might be a player issue, not hardware. Don’t know exactly when iOS was capable of outputting hd audio to an external DAC.. it’s kinda hard to find out, but I suspect it has been more than 5 years at least.
Let's clarify a few things. Apple Music didn't launch until 2015 and won't begin to support 96K audio until next month.
If you're asking about 96K USB audio output from a Mac, consider that Macs have been popular in pro audio music production for a long time.
It was working when I began to see 192kHz hi-res albums on Qobuz, probably 2019.
Let's clarify a few things. Apple Music didn't launch until 2015 and won't begin to support 96K audio until next month.
If you're asking about 96K USB audio output from a Mac, consider that Macs have been popular in pro audio music production for a long time.
I think in this case it might be a player issue, not hardware. Don’t know exactly when iOS was capable of outputting hd audio to an external DAC.. it’s kinda hard to find out, but I suspect it has been more than 5 years at least.
And, as you can see from the links at Apple and elsewhere I've posted, it may have only been a year or two ago, not 5 years. You are welcome to search and find definitive evidence and post it too, I'd appreciate finding the definitive hardware/software release/year.
I thought the hardware was long able to support 24/192 or higher, as it is in Android/PC hardware that does support higher rates.
I'm surprised more audiophiles that have Macintoshes can't nail down the date / hardware / software release(s) where Apple started supporting >48k/96k output from Apple devices... I'd think that would be a watershed moment for everyone that had been desiring it for years.
My excuse is that I moved off of Apple hardware when the 17" Macbook stopped being made, and Macbooks became pretty thin little ovens with loud piercing fans.
Anyway, I might buy one of those Macintosh M2 16"/17" Macbook Pro's when they come out, just to see how they hold up, and sound
I saw some of your posts regarding your AppleID problems. Pretty weird and clearly something is messed up with your Apple account (their fault). If you don't have much vested in that account (iCloud, messaging, etc), I would try creating and using a new Apple ID. I have multiple Apple accounts (work and personal) and products registered on them and never encountered such problems.
I saw some of your posts regarding your AppleID problems. Pretty weird and clearly something is messed up with your Apple account (their fault). If you don't have much vested in that account (iCloud, messaging, etc), I would try creating and using a new Apple ID. I have multiple Apple accounts (work and personal) and products registered on them and never encountered such problems.
Yup, that was their solution, if I refused to purchase an iPhone, create another AppleID - and no they won't transfer my media licenses, and no they cannot guarentee the same thing won't happen to the new AppleID. Sheesh.
Unfortunately even though I long ago stopped buying media from iTunes, I have enough that I don't want to "leave it behind".
Plus I have a long history developing for Apple hardware, and as a registered Apple Developer developing for 3rd-parties, and I've had that login since the first Apple Developer deal for Mac's was offered, and in some form before that for the Apple II hardware going back to the '70's.
Thanks for your understanding... it's ok, I was gonna return that M1 anyway due to the 13" screen - I only hope I don't have the same AppleID run-around when I get the M2 16"/17"...
Ok, starting to narrow in on when 24/192 support started working
Here's a post in Apple Forums of someone verifying 24/96k output in Sept 2018, after an iOS update:
24bit/192kHz Support - Apple Community
It's nice that, with recent iOS updates, recent iPhones (including the 6S) can now play 24bit / 96 kHz music. I was able to verify this with my Chord Hugo 2 - which bypasses the internal DAC and amp and also provides a visual indicator of the sampling rate (red = 44 kHz; green = 96 kHz, etc.).
Sadly, my true-audiophile 24-bit/192 kHz recordings are still not supported. When attempting to sync my Mac iTunes recordings I get error messages that the sampling rate isn't supported (this was also the case on my new iPhone XS).
Given that it is possible to bypass the internal DAC, I would assume that playback limitations must be software-, and not hardware related. Since many of us do now use external DACs, it would be really great if Apple could support higher-resolution recordings.
(The sample rate does make a big difference. This is because the human ear is very sensitive to transients down to about 8 µs - whereas CD-quality sound only resolves down to 23 µs - transients let one define the start and end of notes, as well as spacial information: the phase difference between Left and Right channels for example; better sampling opens up a wider soundstage with more detailed presentations and one can really hear the string tone in orchestral recordings.)
iPhone Xs, iOS 12
Posted on Sep 25, 2018 2:48 AM
So far all I see mentioned from Apple about 24/192k is this:
If somebody else knows when the 24/192k Apple hardware support began, please let us know...I'll keep looking...
Was it really as recently as 12 months ago?
How to play hi-res music on your iPhone | What Hi-Fi? (whathifi.com)
"Deep13 06 June 2020 17:56
I am using Fiio btr5 as usb dac on my ipad pro 2018 & Galaxy S9+. On ipad usb connection btr5 says 44.1khz and with Galaxy S9+ it says 384khz. I am tring to figure out how to enable ipad usb connection to stream music at 384khz. Using Tidal on both, playing the same song 'Mr Self Destruct' by 'Nine inch Nails' master quality audio album on tidal, btr5 with ipad says 88 khz and with galaxy s9+ says 192 khz, why is this difference?
Sound wise galaxy s9+ bass imact is less than ipad and sounds seems more clear and soothing on s9+ comparitively, both connected usb with btr5.
So i confused if usb connection is using only btr5's dac why is there difference sample rate?"
Maybe it was only newer hardware after 2018?
Well, at least todays new Apple hardware is supported.
I suspect if you had an external dac that the i device could talk to that could do 24/192 the issue will always have been app software. Not sure how long the VOX player has been available but think that could play 24/192 when the attached dac could.
If I were Roon I would be scrambling to try and get a deal with Spotify or Apple. Deezer won't cut it. But they need a major new lossless minimum provider.
Although neither of those services have any reason to buddy up with Roon. And Spotify have already said no before.
If I were Roon I would be scrambling to try and get a deal with Spotify or Apple. Deezer won't cut it. But they need a major new lossless minimum provider.
Although neither of those services have any reason to buddy up with Roon. And Spotify have already said no before.
I am using Fiio btr5 as usb dac on my ipad pro 2018 & Galaxy S9+. On ipad usb connection btr5 says 44.1khz and with Galaxy S9+ it says 384khz. I am tring to figure out how to enable ipad usb connection to stream music at 384khz. Using Tidal on both, playing the same song 'Mr Self Destruct' by 'Nine inch Nails' master quality audio album on tidal, btr5 with ipad says 88 khz and with galaxy s9+ says 192 khz, why is this difference?
To me, your quote is a typical example of MQA confusion. And has nothing to do with iPad’s USB datarate “limitation”. But is an example of [a combination of] (a) the datarate difference between stages of MQA unfolding and it’s reporting, (b) difference in Tidal app implementations on different platforms, and (c) often difference in ’the same song’ streamed by Tidal to different apps/platform (depending on settings/preference).
For starters, MQA always arrives to the Tidal app as either a 44.1ksps (kilo samples per second) or 48ksps file, never above it! Some apps report this actual ‘transport’ rate, while others report the ‘final datarate this MQA stream can be unfolded to’. And neither has anything to do with the USB datarate between the phone and the DAC: A properly configured Tidal app (on the phone) will perform ‘the core, the first’ unfold, doubling the incoming rate to 88ksps or 96ksps. This - 88 or 96ksps - is the PCM sample rate the USB interface will see with a MQA stream, but never higher! (And if your app is configured not to unfold MQA - eg, if you have a ‘full’ decoding+rendering MQA DAC - then the USB interface will only see the original 44.1 or 48ksps.)
Now, a MQA rendering DAC would internally upconvert the incoming stream to 192ksps and sometimes even to 384ksps (with so called ‘second unfold’), and report it. But this too has little to do with the phone-DAC USB interface sample rate…
Bottom line, if you want to test your phone-DAC USB interface, don’t use the MQA-compressed data. Use a traditional high-res PCM FLAC - eg, from Qobuz streaming service or your personal NAS stash… (Or, don’t use MQA, period. )
To me, your quote is a typical example of MQA confusion. And has nothing to do with [iPad’s] USB datarate limitation. But is an example of [a combination] of (a) the datarate difference between stages of MQA unfolding and it’s reporting, (b) difference in Tidal app implementations on different platforms, and (c) often difference in ’the same song’ streamed by Tidal to different apps/platform (depending on setting/preference).
Start by realizing that MQA always arrives to the Tidal streaming app as either a 44.1ksps (kilo samples per second) or 48ksps file, never above it. And some applications report this actual ‘transport’ rate, while others report the ‘final datarate this MQA stream can be unfolded to’. And neither has much to do with the USB datarate between the phone/app and the DAC: As a properly configured Tidal app (on the phone) will only perform ‘the core, the first’ unfold, doubling the incoming rate - to 88ksps or 96ksps - but never ever higher! This is the PCM datarate the USB interface will see. (And if your app is configured not to unfold MQA - eg, if you have a ‘full’ unfolding+rendering MQA DAC - then the USB interface will only see the original 44.1 or 48ksps.)
Now, an MQA rendering DAC would internally upconvert the incoming stream to 192ksps and sometimes even to 384ksps, and report it. But again, this has nothing to do with the phone-DAC USB interface datarate/limitation…
