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Apple is forced to allow installation of 3rd party Apps (outside of their official store) in the EU

Do you believe this development is a positive/negative step for consumers?

  • Positive

    Votes: 25 55.6%
  • Negative

    Votes: 11 24.4%
  • Doesn’t matter to me, I’m on Android.

    Votes: 9 20.0%

  • Total voters
    45
People go to Android, because Apple's approach of locking down apps is their own enemy.
Like I said before, this move will bring back a lot of Apple former users who switched to Android previously, because their Apple experience was limited.

I think you’re making up an alternate reality that agrees with your preformed notions. In this reality, the Apple app store has several Youtube player apps, most of them with built-in Youtube ad blocking.
 
I think you’re making up an alternate reality that agrees with your preformed notions. In this reality, the Apple app store has several Youtube player apps, most of them with built-in Youtube ad blocking.
Why do people choose Android OS vs iOS?
Other than cost of course.

They always say that the user experience is limited on iOS.
Bingo!

So, no, it's not an alternate reality. It is the reality.

I have both iOS and Android OS just for this reason, since my iPhone can't do everything I want.
 
Threat actors are just exploiting a vulnerability (or better yet multiple stacked vulnerabilities) in some Apple's product/service.
So they're bypassing Apple's protection...The fact that your phone also supports the ability to side-load applications is almost irrelevant then. It's already too late.

That's a little glib and a lot unconvincing. It should be obvious to everyone that stripping away a layer of protection - especially for less technologically sophisticated users - has the unfortunate real world effect of easing the path for a TA.

People go to Android, because Apple's approach of locking down apps is their own enemy...this move will bring back a lot of Apple former users who switched to Android previously, because their Apple experience was limited.

The data does not support your assertion. See, e.g. https://explodingtopics.com/blog/iphone-android-users# or https://www.pcmag.com/news/why-do-people-switch-between-mobile-operating-systems

First, while both ecosystems/echo-chambers are very sticky, it seems to be quite a bit more common for people to migrate for a more curated experience than for more individualized control. Which makes sense, do more people want to play with technology, or use technology to do stuff?

"18% of iPhone users are former Android users, while only 11% of Android users made the switch from Apple."

"Better features, for example, is cited by 24 percent of respondents as the motivation to go from iOS to Android, and 25 percent from Android to iOS"

Admittedly, I'm not sure of the time horizon for those numbers. For a while iPhones were limited by carrier - does someone who had an Android phone but upgraded to an iPhone 4S in 2011 (when their carrier was finally able to offer iPhones) count in that number?

The other interesting tidbit there: Gen X is the least likely to use iOS.
 
"Better features, for example, is cited by 24 percent of respondents as the motivation to go from iOS to Android, and 25 percent from Android to iOS"

Not sure if that is true. Take a look at this:

1706249132284.png


I can mirror the screen of my phone on my Windows PC desktop. I can do anything I like with it - send messages, make phone calls, download files from the phone or send files to it, and launch any app. If I am on the road and have no wi-fi, I can use the phone's 5G connection.

1706249223704.png


And more impressively, you may have noticed I have a Samsung Fold 4. When I unfold the screen, it is automatically mirrored on the Windows desktop.

I don't think any iOS device can do that in Windows.

1706249790584.png


And did I mention that I can split the screen so that I can run two apps at the same time when unfolded in tablet mode? I do this when I am driving, maps on the left, and Tidal on the right.
 
Not sure if that is true.

I neither know nor care if it's true. It was a quote from the PC Magazine article covering a survey of phone users. It's also beside the point IMO. A trillion "features" are just who-cares-whatevers unless a user can make good use of them. Maybe people generally think iPhones have the edge in "features" (however they define that) simply because more of what they can do is easy to use and thus relevant to normal people?

I can mirror the screen of my phone on my Windows PC desktop. I can do anything I like with it - send messages, make phone calls, download files from the phone or send files to it, and launch any app. If I am on the road and have no wi-fi, I can use the phone's 5G connection.

Apple does something similar but in simpler and better way - you simply click on a number on your Mac and a dialog box pops up to ask if you want to make the call on your iPhone. Messages (including SMS), photos, notes, shared drives, and so from your phone (and any device on the same iCloud account) just sync without having to cope with a UI-inside-a-UI.

You can also mirror screens from your iDevice or Mac to your AppleTV, etc.

The biggest audio flaw (IMO) one encounters when out of the Apple ecosystem/echo-chamber is that you have to pair headphones to each device. That really really really really sucks. With the Apple stuff you can just automagically move your (e.g.) AirPod Pros over from your phone to your Mac to the nearest AppleTV, etc. No pairing and re-pairing of BT.
 
Apple has made an official announcement about this:

It's a big article, so if you don't have time to read it, that's okay.
I've asked Copilot (using ChatGpt 4.0) to summarize instead:
------------------------------
Apple has announced changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store in the European Union (EU) to comply with the Digital Markets Act (DMA)¹². The changes include:

- More than 600 new APIs¹².
- Expanded app analytics¹².
- Functionality for alternative browser engines¹².
- Options for processing app payments and distributing iOS apps¹².

These changes aim to reduce privacy and security risks for EU users³. However, Apple acknowledges that the new options for processing payments and downloading apps on iOS open new avenues for malware, fraud and scams, illicit and harmful content, and other privacy and security threats¹². To mitigate these risks, Apple is introducing protections including Notarization for iOS apps, an authorization for marketplace developers, and disclosures on alternative payments¹².

Developers can learn about these changes on the Apple Developer Support page and can begin testing new capabilities today in the iOS 17.4 beta¹². The new capabilities will become available to users in the 27 EU countries beginning in March 2024¹².

Apple Fellow, Phil Schiller, stated that these changes comply with the DMA's requirements in the EU, while helping to protect EU users from the unavoidable increased privacy and security threats this regulation brings¹². He emphasized that Apple's priority remains creating the best, most secure possible experience for their users in the EU and around the world¹².

Developers now have access to new tools and terms available for alternative app distribution and alternative payment processing, new capabilities for alternative browser engines and contactless payments, and more¹². Importantly, developers can choose to remain on the same business terms in place today if they prefer¹².

In March, Apple will share new resources to help EU users understand the changes they can expect¹. This includes guidance to help EU users navigate complexities the DMA’s changes bring — including a less intuitive user experience — and best practices for approaching new risks associated with downloading apps and processing payments outside of the App Store¹.
------------------------------



Here's the developer page about this:

It's a big article, so if you don't have time to read it, that's okay.
I've asked Copilot (using ChatGpt 4.0) to summarize instead:
------------------------------
Apple has announced changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store to comply with the European Union's Digital Markets Act (DMA). These changes, which impact developers' apps in the EU, include:

1. **New options for app distribution**: Developers can now offer their iOS apps for download from alternative app marketplaces¹.
2. **Payment processing**: Developers have new options for processing app payments².
3. **Alternative browser engines**: Functionality for alternative browser engines has been expanded².
4. **App analytics**: Developers now have access to expanded app analytics¹.
5. **User data transfer**: Developers can now transfer App Store user data¹.

These changes are available for developers who distribute apps in any of the 27 EU member countries and only apply to apps available and distributed to users in the EU¹. Developers can get started with these options in the beta release of Xcode 15.3 and iOS 17.4¹. The changes will become available to users in the 27 EU member countries beginning in March 2024¹.

However, Apple warns that these changes introduce new risks, including new avenues for malware, fraud and scams, illicit and harmful content, and other privacy and security threats¹. To mitigate these risks, Apple is introducing protections, including Notarization for iOS apps, an authorization for marketplace developers, and disclosures on alternative payments¹. Despite these safeguards, many risks remain¹.
------------------------------


My thoughts:
Over new 600 APIs? Jesus, it will take someone a week to understand all of the changes.
 
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1st announcement after this:

Fortnite on iPhone and Epic Games Store Coming to Europe

Fortnite has remained unavailable on iOS for over three years, a consequence of Apple’s decision to remove the game. That was because Epic Games added unauthorized third-party in-app payment systems. Following the ban, Epic Games sued Apple and ultimately lost the case as revealed last week.

As for the rest of us outside of Europe? Don’t expect Fortnite to come back to the iPhone here anytime soon.
 
I believe I have the answer for how Apple will check whether you're in the EU or not.


CoPilot (ChatGPT 4.0) said about "countryd" (which i've seen people talking about, on reddit)
-----

The "countryd" feature is a new system that Apple introduced in iOS 16.2¹². It's designed to restrict specific features based on the user's location¹². Here's how it works:

- The system combines multiple data such as the current GPS location, the country code from the Wi-Fi router, and information obtained from the SIM card to determine the country the user is in¹².
- This makes it harder for users to bypass these restrictions, but at the same time, it makes it easier for the device to automatically ignore them when you travel to another region¹.
- The system is designed to set restrictions determined by government regulators¹.

One potential use case for "countryd" is to enable app sideloading in Europe¹². Sideloading is the process of installing third-party apps by alternative methods other than the official ones – in this case, the App Store¹. With the new "countryd" system, Apple will be able to easily determine if the device is being used in an EU country to allow sideloading¹. If other countries also force Apple to allow sideloading, a simple update to this system should enable the feature in other regions¹.

-----

My thoughts:
Which means, there's no way to bypass this 'countryd' telemetry data. So it's really only for the EU. No way around this.
 
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Apple documentation isn't very clear, but I believe major browsers (such as Firefox, Chrome) may be bringing their own engine implementations.
In other words, WebKit engine may no longer be required as the underlying technology for a browser in iOS.
 
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Apple documentation isn't very clear, but I believe major browsers (such as Firefox, Chrome) may be bringing their own engine implementations.
In other words, WebKit engine may no longer be required as the underlying technology for a browser in iOS.
This is a very big benefit. Lots of times I've had WebKit mess up rendering a site and there's nothing you can do about it. On Android or a desktop, changing browser often fixes rendering problems.
 
Why do people choose Android OS vs iOS?
Other than cost of course.

They always say that the user experience is limited on iOS.
Bingo!

So, no, it's not an alternate reality. It is the reality.

I have both iOS and Android OS just for this reason, since my iPhone can't do everything I want.
By that logic, they always say that vinyl is superior to digital and tubes sound better than class D..
 
I see this as forcing a private business to meet the political goals of a regulator.

It's true that one should always be wary of such a deeply conservative and 'pro-business' institution as the EU. But in their unequivocal support for the ideals of market capitalism they do sometimes actually manage to promote something of benefit to the average consumer, namely free and fair competion, which is of course the first thing that suffers in any unregulated market. 'Private businesses' like Apple (and Google, Microsoft, Meta et al.) are not some local mom 'n' pop grocery store. They have the power and influence of nation-states and all the regulatory clout of supra-national democratic institutions like the EU are sorely needed to counter their monopolistic tendencies.

As a predominantly macOS/iOS user I'm very happy about this legislation although I feel it could have been stronger and less lenient. It's a step in the right direction. I have always avoided the Mac app-store where possible on my destop Macs. That said, I doubt I will be 'sideloading' boatloads of apps onto my phone unless there is some very persuasive use case that sideloading enables ...
 
Not sure if that is true. Take a look at this:

I’m seeing a lot of blurry fonts. Not something I’m used to from iOS or macOS ;)

I don't think any iOS device can do that in Windows.

Just like no Android device can do it in macOS. All iOS devices can do it macOS, of course. And go far beyond that simple parlour trick.
 
I’m seeing a lot of blurry fonts. Not something I’m used to from iOS or macOS ;)

I have so much screen resolution that when I take a screen capture, I downscale it to 1000 pixels wide and post it. I have a Lenovo X1 Carbon Extreme, it is a 15" laptop with an OLED screen. Check out the screen resolution:

1706267314666.png


What does the Macbook Pro max out at again?

1706267378454.png


I think you will find that the pixel density on this laptop will blow any Mac laptop out of the water. Also bear in mind: this laptop is 4 years old.
 
I think you will find that the pixel density on this laptop will blow any Mac laptop out of the water. Also bear in mind: this laptop is 4 years old.

Oh, it’s not a hardware limitation, just the way Windows handles fonts.
 
I think you will find that the pixel density on this laptop will blow any Mac laptop out of the water.

Judging by your screenshot the pixel density (i.e. resolution or ppi) of both the Mac and PC is essentially identical. The different pixel counts are due to the fact that Macs use a ~16:10 ratio screen and most PCs use a 16:9 ratio. I much prefer the taller and narrower 16:10 format which is sadly quite rare on PC laptops, although it does exist.
 
None (or few) of these big tech companies are based in the EU.
They have legal and financial offices in various European states and save a lot of taxes. Apple in the world adapts to government impositions (China). I don't see why it shouldn't respect European regulations that try to fight monopolies.
 
No, the EU should stop meddling and anyone who doesn't like a walled garden can buy and Android phone. Apple is not a monopoly. None (or few) of these big tech companies are based in the EU. This regulation is a form of coddling. It's I want an iPhone, but I want it my way.
Sure, monopoly never restricted customers from buying. But try to look at the problem from point of view of competition. For example Mozilla is providing location services:

Can you use Mozilla services on Apple iPhone or Google Android? I guess not, because location is monopolized by these 2 companies. Too much business depends on locating phone users, no monopoly would like to share this income. What EU is trying to do is to extend antitrust rules to digital services. IMHO noting wrong with it and you already see first results. Of course, no one is forced Apple to sell their phones in EU ;)
 
@Keith_W since you have a Samsung you should try out DEX mode. If you don't know, it turns any higher power/high end Samsung phone or tablet into a desk top.

when I replace my older Samsung tablet, I'm probably going to get a higher end Tab S model with keyboard cover for when I'm traveling. That will let me get rid of my laptop that only gets used while traveling.
 
Sure, monopoly never restricted customers from buying. But try to look at the problem from point of view of competition. For example Mozilla is providing location services:

Can you use Mozilla services on Apple iPhone or Google Android? I guess not, because location is monopolized by these 2 companies. Too much business depends on locating phone users, no monopoly would like to share this income. What EU is trying to do is to extend antitrust rules to digital services. IMHO noting wrong with it and you already see first results. Of course, no one is forced Apple to sell their phones in EU ;)
There is no Apple monopoly. Apple has just slightly over 20% of world mobile phone sales. As for Mozilla location services, don't guess, come back with the facts.
 
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