"Apple Homepod: a Speaker to Reinvent Home Music"

[12B4A]

I just couldn't help m'self and preordered a pair just because it looks like there's really good potential here hardware-wise. There's lots to criticize about it though:

-If one wants to integrate a subwoofer with it, there's going to be a lot of wifi gymnastics involved...even if it's all possible.
-To integrate 2 for stereo studio pairing, Airplay 2 must be enabled. Oh yeah, did we mention Airplay 2 won't be released until later this year?
-No mention at all about the possibility of using 5 or more for home theater
-No technical explanations at all how their room correction functions
-Only supports Apple music natively
-Requires a wifi connection to play any music. Power is corded but no hardware connections for audio inputs

Edit: sorry but my search of the forums for HomePod didn't show this thread. Feel free to move/delete this

( moderator; posts moved to this original thread )

 

[oivavoi]

I actually think this can potentially be great news for audio and stereo in the home. I own sonos gear. Two Sonos One actually play very decently in stereo, not to mention when you add a Sonos sub. If the homepod plays even better, then it's a significant step up for smart speakers in the home. I read somewhere that Apple raided some talent from Harman some years back. I believe that shows in the technology here.

Also, Apple has a knack for getting people to buy stuff. If they decide to push the stereo side of things, and not content themselves with mono, then it will vastly increase the reach of stereo reproduction, which is now threatened by new listening habits. I'm optimistic about this!

 

[12B4A]

The thing that concerns me a bit though are the initial glowing reports of sound quality and how they potentially may not translate to fidelity. They give me the cynical impression that these folks are reacting like the speaker was given something similar to a bass/treble boost so they formed a preference based on loudness. Schiller's WWDC presentation talked about remixing the audio and beam-forming based on how the algorithm detected vocals, direct energy, and ambient information.

 

[oivavoi]

Who cares about fidelity in the purist sense? Exctraction and re-beaming of ambient sound is actually very cutting edge in research on audio engineering. Wasn't aware that they use such technology, and frankly it makes me even more impressed. According to research, separation of ambient sounds can help create a stronger sense of witnessing an actual acoustic event. What I would assume is that Apple is sending the direct sound forward to the listener, and the ambient sounds backward and in other directions where it starts bouncing around, in order to increase the sense of spaciousness and witnessing an actual acoustic event taking place. Or something like that. In any case, this is really cool.

 

[12B4A]

Heh, point taken on the fidelity worry since it does go out the window once you put any acoustic emitter in a variably reflective environment. My optimism is greater than my cynicism though since I did plunk down a $700 bet that it will work.

 

[Thomas savage]

I just couldn't help m'self and preordered a pair just because it looks like there's really good potential here hardware-wise. There's lots to criticize about it though:

-If one wants to integrate a subwoofer with it, there's going to be a lot of wifi gymnastics involved...even if it's all possible.
-To integrate 2 for stereo studio pairing, Airplay 2 must be enabled. Oh yeah, did we mention Airplay 2 won't be released until later this year?
-No mention at all about the possibility of using 5 or more for home theater
-No technical explanations at all how their room correction functions
-Only supports Apple music natively
-Requires a wifi connection to play any music. Power is corded but no hardware connections for audio inputs

Edit: sorry but my search of the forums for HomePod didn't show this thread. Feel free to move/delete this

( moderator; posts moved to this original thread )

Please pop back once you have them and give us the low down , my mum is badgering me about what they are like lol

 

[12B4A]

From the audio tech specs:

• High-excursion woofer with custom amplifier
• Array of seven horn-loaded tweeters, each with its own custom amplifier
• Six-microphone array for far-field Siri
• Internal low-frequency calibration microphone for automatic bass correction
• Direct and ambient audio beamforming
• Transparent studio-level dynamic processing

On this edition of the "reading too much in to vague marketing speak" corner, it looks like there are several levels of signal manipulation here: EQ bass correction, separating the signal in to vocal/direct energy/ambient energy for beam forming, and perhaps a little targeted compression? I dunno, it seems like the signal is getting put through a blender here. Hopefully it ends up like steak tartare instead of pink slime.

Edit: and just to indulge OCD futher, it's a little concerning that the correction is based on measurement at the speaker location vs. at a listening position.

 

[oivavoi]

FWIW, B&O has done the same kind of bass eq from the speaker location in their high-end models since Beolab 5 was introduced in the early 2000s. Seems to have worked well for them!

My assumption about the homepod is that it will probably sound better than average-sized passive speakers for a majority of listeners and for a majority of the program material people listen to (i.e. studio-mixed popular music with vocals in the front). Again, sociologically speaking, I think this kind of thing is what will save a musical culture based on more than earphones and the inbuilt speakers in iPads and laptops. People want simplicity!

 

[Thomas savage]

FWIW, B&O has done the same kind of bass eq from the speaker location in their high-end models since Beolab 5 was introduced in the early 2000s. Seems to have worked well for them!

My assumption about the homepod is that it will probably sound better than average-sized passive speakers for a majority of listeners and for a majority of the program material people listen to (i.e. studio-mixed popular music with vocals in the front). Again, sociologically speaking, I think this kind of thing is what will save a musical culture based on more than earphones and the inbuilt speakers in iPads and laptops. People want simplicity!

It’s a ‘super’ amazon echo by the look of it. Perfect for a bedroom or kitchen , any room really though maybe not your lounge for various reasons.

 

[Thomas savage]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidp...ou-about-apples-homepod-secrets-release-date/

 

[12B4A]

That's a very interesting peek in to their audio facilities. It was expected they'd have the deep pockets to build appropriate facilities but that article indicates they are really pumping Apple-sized capital in to their audio measurement and interpretation ability. Now if they'd just quit screwing around with dinky 4" woofers...

 

[oivavoi]

Wow. I'm impressed. This got me really curious:

"...traditional measurements were telling us something but there wasn't a really good correlation between what you would measure and what you would actually hear. So the team had to develop their own measurements and metrics that had a better match with what you would actually hear when you measured something".

What are the chances Apple will release these metrics with others once they've firmly established the homepod in the market?

 

[Thomas savage]

Wow. I'm impressed. This got me really curious:

"...traditional measurements were telling us something but there wasn't a really good correlation between what you would measure and what you would actually hear. So the team had to develop their own measurements and metrics that had a better match with what you would actually hear when you measured something".

What are the chances Apple will release these metrics with others once they've firmly established the homepod in the market?

Sounds like marketing bs , makes you belive the wheels been reinvented in a way no one else can do.

 

[oivavoi]

Perhaps. But the same finding has been found in several studies - thd seems to do a poor job for example in explaining preference, while something called "non-coherent distortion" (which I don't know what is) apparently is highly correlated with preference. So Apple is definitely saying stuff which is in line with research. Can nevertheless be marketing speak, of course.

 

[Thomas savage]

Perhaps. But the same finding has been found in several studies - thd seems to a poor job for example in explaining preference, while something called "non-coherent distortion" apparently is highly correlated with preference. So Apple is definitely saying stuff which is in line with research. Can nevertheless be marketing speak, of course.

It’s very vague though, it puts me on bs red alert

 

[12B4A]

What are the chances Apple will release these metrics with others once they've firmly established the homepod in the market?

 

[Don Hills]

"Non-coherent distortion" means to me distortion that is not related, for example harmonically, to the correct signal. For example, noise (random signal fluctuations).

Regarding their 4" woofer, it would not surprise me if their DSP includes bass synthesis of the type where bass below the woofer cutoff is frequency doubled with the correct harmonic amplitudes. This fools your auditory system into "hearing" the missing fundamental. It's not a new technique, and is quite effective if the speaker performs well in its passband and doesn't mess up the generated harmonics.

The attached YouTube clip is an illustration of this. The bass includes notes down to open B (31 Hz), but the recording is rolled off sharply below 50 Hz. Yet you still "hear" the notes.

 

[DonH56]

IMD is generally much more audible than HD because the tones do not fall on the harmonic series (natch) and so stick out more. IMD adds dissonance.

Haven't read the thread or anything else but "non-coherent" is a little puzzling to me as well without them providing a definition. Seems pretty incoherent of them...

 

[Blumlein 88]

Sounds like marketing bs , makes you belive the wheels been reinvented in a way no one else can do.

 

[astr0b0y]

Apple already ‘reinvented home-stereo’ so it makes sense they move onto ‘home music’.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060302121949/http://www.apple.com:80/ipodhifi/