Apple HomePod (2nd Gen) (2023)

[sarumbear]

It seems like you’re interested in having very precise arguments over language use then making very imprecise conclusions. Is there a reason you are doing this?

How can anyone communicate with imprecise language use?

I’m simply refuting what anyone says as a fact when that is not the case, like what you said below. Apple does not have untethered playback system for 3rd party services, like Spotify. They only offer untethered playback for Apple Music. If I’m wrong please explain so that I learn.

Apple does have an API for untethered and voice-controlled playback for 3rd party music services, but Spotify has not implemented it.

 

[Axo1989]

How can anyone communicate with imprecise language use?

I’m simply refuting what anyone says as a fact when that is not the case, like what you said below. Apple does not have untethered playback system for 3rd party services, like Spotify. They only offer untethered playback for Apple Music. If I’m wrong please explain so that I learn.

Assuming I understand what you are saying, I provided a link to an Apple developer resource that describes what you are asking about and I've quoted the introductory description previously, if you watch (or read the transcript) you'll find specifics like:

On iPhones, iPads or Apple TV, when you ask Siri to play media in your iOS app, you either handle intents directly or via an extension in your app bundle. Typically, when someone asks Siri to play content from your app, Siri processes this request, identifies your app bundle as the target of the intent and loads your app extension, which implements the intent resolution. Your extension can communicate with your services, and the handling of the intent will trigger launching of your app to begin playback or just signal it to handle changes. With Cloud Extension, the process of resolving those intents moves from your extension implementation on device to an API on your service as the HomePod directly reaches out to your Cloud Extension Intent endpoints instead.

... and ...

Let's review again what happens when a person asks Siri to play media on a HomePod. The request is processed by Siri, and our Cloud Media Service extension is chosen to handle it on behalf of your service. The HomePod uses the Cloud Extension APIs implemented by your service to resolve an intent. Once we have resolved the intent, a Cloud Media Player component will contact your service's queue endpoints, and it's those queue endpoints which determine what content to play. In most services, a content distribution service often provides the actual audio files to play.

... and so on. So, if Spotify implements the relevant APIs, extensions &etc then you would expect be able to ask your HomePod to play media from their service, independently from (say) a Spotify app on your phone. I'm not sure why you keep repeating the questioning though, you appear to be disputing facts already in evidence.

 

[dufferdan]

I purchased the original HomePod rather late in the game as OWC was blowing them out at times for $199 USD. I bought one, and when I liked it way more than I expected, I went back to buy a second and they were gone. Aftermarket pricing , when I looked on EBAY, was crazy. So we limped along with the one. My wife uses it in her sewing room in the basement, and once it is tuned in. It sounds pretty damn good in a very live environment (on a hard table surrounded by hard walls and windows.) We used it in the backyard outdoors several times during the summer and it was excellent.

My hearing is getting worse as I age and I have thought about getting two HomePod Mini’s as speakers for the kitchen TV via Apple TV, but these HomePod might be the winner there. Still trying to decide that. Most likely they would be a really decent bedroom system to play via Apple TV as well.

I, for one, am glad they are back.

 

[dshreter]

I’m simply refuting what anyone says as a fact when that is not the case, like what you said below. Apple does not have untethered playback system for 3rd party services, like Spotify. They only offer untethered playback for Apple Music. If I’m wrong please explain so that I learn.

https://help.pandora.com/s/article/Pandora-on-Apple-HomePod?language=en_US#:~:text=To%20set%20up%20Pandora%20on%20Apple%20HomePod%20from,HomePod%20.%204%20Then%20tap%20Use%20in%20Home.

Pandora is a good example. It does not require an iDevice to be present for playback, it plays untethered from the HomePod.

 

[AdamG]

Only after I pointed out to you. Here is your original post, pretty authoritative with no caveat of assuming in place.



Contrary what you said above (highlight mine) Spotify is using Apple method of sending audio to an AirPlay device.

It’s obvious you are not familiar with Apple mobile devices (you can’t even recognise a basic OS setting) why post about it in the way you did above?

Why so Grumpy Bro? Dial back the Snark please! We all have bad days but we don’t need to make them contagious

 

[sandifop]

I dropped my initial HomePod 2 impressions earlier; this is a followup after four days. The summary: two HomePod 2s make an outstanding $600 wireless ATMOS soundbar for AppleTV 4K users.

- Software updates cleared up the totally unacceptable ‘bucket of mud’ sound I had out of the box.
- Resetting both HomePods certainly improved the sibilant “S” sound, but some materials still show a slightly harsh “S.” My basement might be hard to handle? (“Hot Tip:” do not put your HomePods in front of your TV’s 60” panel of glass. I placed the front of my HPs on a line flush with my TV (but 7” away) and liked the sound better) (Pictures below)
- These things are computers. Restart, run the updates, and reset if you must when they are not working right.
- Audio performance with Dolby ATMOS encoded material is really good at the price point. Really good. I mean worth the price good.
- Audio performance with materials that are not encoded for ATMOS can sound nice, but doesn’t standup to critical listening. Details seem lost. For example: Listening to Tchaikovsky Symphony No. 6 by Teodor Currentzis (Sony Classical 2017), the sound was pretty good; however, it was hard to ‘hear’ what instrument was making which sound. Was a low bass rumble a Tympani? Some brass instrument? Impossible to say. Nice rumble but by what? With my headphones I can clearly identify the instrument. If this work was recorded for ATMOS I suspect you would be able to tell what was playing what.

Use case 1: Two HomePod 2s for your home theater. For Apple TV 4k users this will save all the expense, mess and hassle of amplifiers, room treatments, running wires and hanging side, back and high channel speakers. There are benefits to all of the complexity of a 5.1/7.1/9.1 home theater but I don’t need all of that just to hear bullets wiz over my head. The HomePod puts you in the environment really well. “[ATMOS] for the rest of us.”

Use case 2: A mix of HomePod and HomePod minis would do the job for those with an Apple TV or into the Apple ecosystem and need whole house ‘ambient audio’ system and a home control hub.

Do not use case: Audiophiles in their sound room.

Sophomoric guess here - Give the computer something encoded and it knows what to do with all of those drivers. However, give the computer two channels of unencoded stereo and the drivers just do whatever their physical design allows…with DSP for room acoustics. (Or something)

I know nothing but what I hear. A pair of HomePod 2 make an outstanding $600 wireless ATMOS soundbar with a bonus of perfectly serviceable ambient audio source for non-critical listening.

 

[sarumbear]

https://help.pandora.com/s/article/Pandora-on-Apple-HomePod?language=en_US#:~:text=To%20set%20up%20Pandora%20on%20Apple%20HomePod%20from,HomePod%20.%204%20Then%20tap%20Use%20in%20Home.

Pandora is a good example. It does not require an iDevice to be present for playback, it plays untethered from the HomePod.

I’m in UK and Pandora is not available for us, hence didn’t know how they work. Are there any other services out there that doesn’t require tethering?

Pandora had been a personalised radio station but I read that it’s now like any other music service. Does Siri accepts commands to select a song like with Apple Music or do you need an app to do that?

 

[sarumbear]

I dropped my initial HomePod 2 impressions earlier; this is a followup after four days. The summary: two HomePod 2s make an outstanding $600 wireless ATMOS soundbar for AppleTV 4K users.

Can you clarify what you meant by ATMOS? Where and how the height information is perceived?

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I have no need for this speaker but I would like a proper ASR review of this thing. It could be much better than we want to believe or admit

My views on the current audio landscape:

I am getting more and more surprised by the sound quality that is produced by some commercial, regular no-for-audiophile-but-for-regular-folks audio products. SONOS comes to mind but also Apple and Google.. and Amazon and ...
This past year past year, I have come across products that have no right to sound as good as they do and for less than I would have thought.. a few:
1) The TCZ IEM at $50.oo
2) SONOS Beam, ARC and 5 soundbar and speakers
3) My own Hifiman HE6Se, in my honest opinion after EQ, an endgame headphones and, yes can be acquires for less than $500.oo
4) this is the most surprising and mostly anecdotic, subjective, an IEM, that was thrown in in a wireless studio monitoring system from Takstar WPM-200 In Ear Stage UHF .. the 5 transmitted kit is about $400.oo and the IEM are just thrown in.. Subjectively better than the usual, very expensive model from COMMTEC, GALAXY , etc that are mainstays in studios.. No I didn't measure it. Subjectively better than the AM sounding COMMTEC buds ... THese IEM, for the purpose of in-ear-monitoring in a studio, are surprising.
5) To throw everybody off track: Aren't you a little surprised by how decent an iPad sound? Seriously, this flat slab of glass, has no rights to suggest that there is some bass and treble in music.. Mine does. Not enough to not want the buds but ..

So, let's be clear about it: Accurate preproduction is readily available, it is becoming , yes , a commodity (Thanks God!!) .
Apple (and Google and Amazon and yes Microsoft) but let focus on Apple , who recently buil one of the largest anechoic room in the USA .... The Homepod is just one product they are looking into. They have the wherewithal to offer an entire and serious Atmos system with Homepods, LCR, Surround and elevation, since these have their own microphone ... DRC would be included controlled by AI/Cloud ... Placement could be guided by that as well as audio performance. The mind boggles, and the technology is likely available...
Yep People .. Big Tech is looking at serious, accurate sound reproduction. It is not their first foray, either. Our gracious host comes from there

Calling... @amirm .. for a review ....

peace

 

[sandifop]

Can you clarify what you meant by ATMOS? Where and how the height information is perceived?

In this case I was referring to soundbars that can process Dolby ATMOS encoded recordings.

I'm only speaking to my perception and don't want to expose my ignorance too much. (Opinion ahead) I doubt any front emitters on the market today will provide a sound source beside, behind, or above the listener; a great many people do not want to commit space and other resources but still want good environment around their center channel. My HomePod 2 fakes surround transducers during processing adequately for me and my wife. Yeah, it all happens in front, not quite as good at faux "surround" as the AirPod Max for the obvious reason the emitter is in front v. the Max's on-ear placement.

 

[Paolo]

Hi

I have no need for this speaker but I would like a proper ASR review of this thing. It could be much better than we want to believe or admit

I’m genuinely not sure you could have a proper ASR review. How can this computational DSP can be measured? And, if measured, how you would relate to the data? It seems to me that the speaker will try to adapt how it sounds to the specific room…

Apart from that, you’re on point, good gear is getting cheaper and cheaper and cheap gear is getting better and better.
Many producers are either aligning to the Harman research, even when they don’t want to declare it (HD660S2 anyone?), or they’re making their own research as Apple is doing with the diffuse field.

It’s a pretty good time to be an audiophile and things are getting better by the days.

 

[sarumbear]

In this case I was referring to soundbars that can process Dolby ATMOS encoded recordings.

I'm only speaking to my perception and don't want to expose my ignorance too much. (Opinion ahead) I doubt any front emitters on the market today will provide a sound source beside, behind, or above the listener; a great many people do not want to commit space and other resources but still want good environment around their center channel. My HomePod 2 fakes surround transducers during processing adequately for me and my wife. Yeah, it all happens in front, not quite as good at faux "surround" as the AirPod Max for the obvious reason the emitter is in front v. the Max's on-ear placement.

So it’s STEREO reproduction but the source is labelled as ATMOS?

The so called ATMOS sound bars have upwards angled speakers like the hybrid ATMOS speakers but I read that (but not experienced) some manipulate audio in such a way that it fools listener as if the sound is coming from above. On most sound bars the 2D surround effect is similarly achieved, however, I do not know whether HomePod has that facility even, let alone 3D. Is there a control to select the modes like it is with an AVR or sound bar?

 

[dshreter]

I’m in UK and Pandora is not available for us, hence didn’t know how they work. Are there any other services out there that doesn’t require tethering?

Pandora had been a personalised radio station but I read that it’s now like any other music service. Does Siri accepts commands to select a song like with Apple Music or do you need an app to do that?

I don’t know. Apple talks about Pandora and Deezer, which makes me think they have few premier music partners.

The commands for Apple Music seems like they generally apply to 3rd parties.

Control audio with Siri on HomePod

Use Siri on HomePod to play audio, control multiple speakers, get news, and more.

support.apple.com

The lack of Spotify, Tidal, and Amazon Music makes me suspect Apple may be requiring more than technical partnership and requires certain App Store terms and rev sharing. But that’s just speculation

 

[Jeromeof]

I’m in UK and Pandora is not available for us, hence didn’t know how they work. Are there any other services out there that doesn’t require tethering?

Pandora had been a personalised radio station but I read that it’s now like any other music service. Does Siri accepts commands to select a song like with Apple Music or do you need an app to do that?

I imagine TuneIn Radio is using the same API

 

[sarumbear]

I imagine TuneIn Radio is using the same API

TuneIn and iHeart are baked in HomePods. They work out of the box with nothing to set for.

 

[sandifop]

So it’s STEREO reproduction but the source is labelled as ATMOS?

The so called ATMOS sound bars have upwards angled speakers like the hybrid ATMOS speakers but I read that (but not experienced) some manipulate audio in such a way that it fools listener as if the sound is coming from above. On most sound bars the 2D surround effect is similarly achieved, however, I do not know whether HomePod has that facility even, let alone 3D. Is there a control to select the modes like it is with an AVR or sound bar?

I do not know you, so please forgive me if I'm being condescending.

To your question about "STEREO:" It is two emitters (six transducers, I believe, per emitter). In that context it might be considered "stereo." But, to my mind, stereo is actually two signal channels. I believe by the very nature of virtual ATMOS you are dealing with something much more complex by nature of the encoding.

On the point of fooling a listener as if the sound is coming from above; (you likely know better than me that) even well designed and properly amped stereo speakers can make the listener think he perceives sound above the emitter. These instruments go beyond that, however. I suspect the beam forming tweeters play a roll in the case of the HomePod to produce this effect. I would say not as successfully as the AirPod Max, but you can sit with a friend and get (in my case) close enough with the HomePod.

There are no controls, to speak of. (Not surprising, since it is Apple) I think the target is for those after a plug-n-play solution. Apple can (and has) tweaked the heck out of these. I've seen a great deal of change from two updates they have pushed out in the last few days. However, there is nothing for the user, other than a toggle to reduce the bass. The "speaker" detects whether a signal is encoded for ATMOS, or not, and will process the playback accordingly without user intervention.

Listening to a friend's setup might be the best way to decide if these are anything special. I think they are very much like the 2D soundbar I had previously, only simpler, more 'automatic,' and with better effect. Oh, and without a center channel speaker covering my Cc text.

I hope I understood you point. (?)

 

[sarumbear]

I do not know you, so please forgive me if I'm being condescending.

Thank you for the detailed reply. So many things they say on the marketing sounds like voodoo to an engineer like me but reading your experience it’s been delivered. I wish Apple had explained what they are doing so that we don’t rely on subjective experiences like yours.

 

[Paolo]

Oh, and without a center channel speaker covering my Cc text.

Can you please describe how clear is the speech in movies compared to other systems like sound bar or headphones?

 

[sandifop]

Can you please describe how clear is the speech in movies compared to other systems like sound bar or headphones?

...about that...

Short answer is it sounds better than the center channel transducer in the soundbar I had.

Before now; at first I had both HomePod 2s in front of the TV glass panel, which worked about a badly as you might expect. And the center channel effect sounded like speakers in a tube. Sounded like poo.

Next, I moved the both speakers 6.5" away from the TV edge, but still in front. Not a great deal of improvement.

Then I looked in the Home app for an update. Four downloads later (two speakers * two updates) much of the mush was gone. Center channel sounded "centered" but still a bit in a tube and always had sibilant "S"s up to this point. Then...

I moved the speakers back behind the glass panel. (My earlier photos, above, show the move) and performed a reset. (Unpair, reset, repair) and ATMOS effects sound 'virtually' great - though in front and not surrounding the listener. The sibilance is no longer objectionable.

I repeat that my room is an acoustic nightmare. Also, don't judge your center channel by dialog recorded inside a car: one can really hear how bad that sounds accurately.

 

[Paolo]

Thanks