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Apple HomePod (2nd Gen) (2023)
- Thread starter TK750
- Start date
I don't do Spotify these days: I assume the web player can use AirPlay in the normal way, but their iOS app (for example, looks like there's a Mac app* too) has a Spotify Connect button but no AirPlay button/option/fallback. Apple provides API for software developers and MFi licensing for accessories (preamps, speakers etc) which Spotify could use to add this functionality. Mentioned upthread by a few people iirc.
*but you download it from them, not via Mac app store
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Interesting that you commented about something seemingly authoritatively even though you only assume.
You don’t need an AirPlay button because Apple handles streaming at OS level. See below. You can send the audio of any app to an AirPlay device, hence Spotify doesn’t have such a button as it is not required.
That's why I used the English words "I assume". Can I do that? I also assumed it wasn't a trick question.
Note that I didn't say they "needed a button" because that's not what "button/option/fallback" means. But if the Spotify app (assuming again that's what you are showing and/or talking about) isn't broken and works normally with AirPlay, then what's the problem (and what was the point of your question)?
Only after I pointed out to you. Here is your original post, pretty authoritative with no caveat of assuming in place.
Contrary what you said above (highlight mine) Spotify is using Apple method of sending audio to an AirPlay device.
It’s obvious you are not familiar with Apple mobile devices (you can’t even recognise a basic OS setting) why post about it in the way you did above?
Not my original post. You are quoting @dshreter not me.
Your exchange with them gave me the impression that the Spotify app didn't do the AirPlay thing for some unspecified reason—why ask what method they could use if they were already using it? My reply was meant to be informative, not adversarial.
Replying to me now I guess you mean feature, not setting? At least that's what we would usually refer to, settings UI is generally in-app on macOS, but separate in iOS.
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dshreter
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You might have missed the original context of this discussion. Because HomePod does not support untethered playback from Spotify, the user interface is lacking in comparison to something like an Echo speaker or Sonos endpoint for Spotify users. I am aware of AirPlay support, but like many I far prefer the use of Spotify Connect over the experience I get from using AirPlay.
Apple does have an API for untethered and voice-controlled playback for 3rd party music services, but Spotify has not implemented it.
Not speaking to @sarumbear's intent but I side-tracked a bit thinking how I would play Spotify to a HomePod. Hence iOS app or Mac web player discussion and AirPlay which wasn't the right answer. Haven't used Spotify Connect so not familiar with/haven't formed any preferences there. You've answered my question about what Spotify wasn't doing though, so thanks. We would dive into MusicKit and related API I guess (not sure the exact reference for third-party music services/libraries) not AirPlay so much.
Edit: had to look for it SiriKit Media Intents would be an essential building block ...
... yada, yada, that would be the stuff Spotify hasn't bothered with, and more likely the correct answer to @sarumbear's question.
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I’m sorry for not realising that you were replying to my comment to someone else.
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dshreter
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The method is via SiriKit
With SiriKit Media Intents on HomePod, streaming music services can integrate directly with HomePod to deliver a seamless playback experience. People can simply ask Siri to access music and playlists from your service and play them on one or multiple HomePod speakers throughout the home.
Integrate your music streaming service
Siri - Apple Developer
Siri is the world’s most popular intelligent assistant. With App Intents and SiriKit, your apps can help people get things done with Siri, Spotlight, and Shortcuts.developer.apple.com
If you’d like to integrate your service with HomePod, let us know.
I’m aware of SiriKit but other than voice control what would have changed? Wouldn’t the Spotify app on the Apple device stream the audio to an AirPlay device unlike Spotify Connect where the AirPlay device streams the audio independently once it gets instructions from the app.
dshreter
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Voice control with untethered playback is the main benefit as far as I know. With the components Apple has made available today to 3rd parties, the experience is lacking in comparison to Spotify Connect at least from my perspective.
Which is unfortunate. With 3 PCs, 2 Sonos Amps, 2 LG TVs, 2 iPhones, an iPad, an Echo, and a Triby all in the household, I'm quite used to Spotify Connect spanning all of the endpoints I use. I'm interested in HomePod hardware, but it's an annoyance that it won't be similarly compatible. I would expect it's a similar story for a lot of other Spotify customers.
Untethered playback does have some advantages, main ones being that it doesn't drain the battery of the device that is streaming the music and you can listen to Atmos-tracks from Apple Music. The latter being surprisingly good with some material on the first gen.
Since AirPlay is real time, streaming audio over it prevents the source device from going into power saving mode. The drain is quite noticable on my phone. No issues with sound quality or playback realiability though. I can definitely see how this, from an end user's perspective, would be inferior to Spotify Connect which isn't realtime the same way, saving a lot of battery on mobile devices.
Since AirPlay is real time, streaming audio over it prevents the source device from going into power saving mode. The drain is quite noticable on my phone. No issues with sound quality or playback realiability though. I can definitely see how this, from an end user's perspective, would be inferior to Spotify Connect which isn't realtime the same way, saving a lot of battery on mobile devices.
sandifop
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Another impression.
Tl;dr
• HomePods are Apple’s foray into computational audio.
• The room analysis feature is an excellent work in progress.
• Bass is amazing for a 4” speaker but it is still a 4” speaker, you can only expect so much bass here.
• As an alternative to $500 soundbars, it’s fine for $600. No components to wire-up, no walking around the room with a mic; just plug and play.
• As a high quality hifi speaker HomePod is okay, not fine - but software updates may improve that to a degree. Sounded as if the speaker is in a tube and spoken “S” sounds had a sibilance issue until I updated and performed a reset on both ’Pods.
• As a smart speaker HomePod is good (not excellent bc “Siri”) but expensive.
• Love the software updates.
• Apple ecosystem only.
Koan 1: Your phone has a camera but there are better cameras for less money; therefore, your phone is not worth buying. (This logic works if you only need a camera but fails if you want a phone.)
What does that koan have to do with the HomePod? If you want a camera, buy a camera. If you want a stereo, buy a stereo. Apple's HomePod (and HomePod 2) is an exercise into computational audio, much like their iPhone cameras are exercises into computational photography. In the HomePod’s case, Apple has put okay hardware in an unconventional design, added a pretty good CPU, and designed software to try to correct issues inherent in all audio systems through programming. It worked pretty well for smartphone photography (after a few iterations); however, it was only interesting, not great, at first. The HomePod 2 is to audio what the iPhone XS was to pocket cameras - a good first step but we’re not there yet.
Bad News: The Sound - Let’s get this out of the way. HomePod 2 is a great sounding smart speaker but as a stereo speaker it doesn’t have the bass or detail for audiophiles, if that’s your thing. Oh, and the sibilant “S” is hard for me to ignore. [Added: performing a reset on both HomePods clean up the sibilance issue greatly, but it is still an issue on some material] Compared with headphones, I was amazed how much detail the HomePod missed. Entire instruments vanished into a sonic wash. You know, like a smart speaker. If you want to play audiophile, save your money because you will not be happy.
Good News: ATMOS - I replaced my (not ATMOS) wired soundbar with a HomePod 2 stereo pair and the HomePod sounded better enough I gave my soundbar away. My TV room is awful; hard floors, bare walls, low ceiling, and bad “L” geometry. (Mom; in Hell, send bass traps!) The HomePods sounded like mud out of the box and, along with my AppleTV, required software updates. After the updates, the HomePods performed auto EQ and sounded better in the room than anything I had tried to date. Bonus, fewer wires and it doesn’t block my CC text on the bottom of the screen. If Apple added the ability to gang 2 or 3 more, or at least a sub, and you might have a Sennheiser Ambeo replacement. However, as with my older sound bar, there is sibilance on spoken “S” sounds.
Last “Smart” Words - Out of the little white box I found the HomePod 2 to have muddy audio, glaring sibilant “S” issues, and the smart speaker performance was not “smart.” The second morning there were two updates. (16.0 and 16.3.1) The audio certainly improved a noticeable amount and some “smart” was added to the speakers. [Added: and the sibilant “S” was almost eliminated later]
That is why I am keeping both of my HomePod 2s: Apple can tweak the usability with software updates. A regular stereo setup doesn’t improve this much with an OTA update. The computational audio aspect is worth my support. Oh, and they are working very well as a soundbar.
The HomePod is not just a speaker; it’s a computational audio device. There are better/cheaper music systems. I see HomePod as something else. I hope they keep trying for the next 10 years, I’d like to see where this takes us.
Tl;dr
• HomePods are Apple’s foray into computational audio.
• The room analysis feature is an excellent work in progress.
• Bass is amazing for a 4” speaker but it is still a 4” speaker, you can only expect so much bass here.
• As an alternative to $500 soundbars, it’s fine for $600. No components to wire-up, no walking around the room with a mic; just plug and play.
• As a high quality hifi speaker HomePod is okay, not fine - but software updates may improve that to a degree. Sounded as if the speaker is in a tube and spoken “S” sounds had a sibilance issue until I updated and performed a reset on both ’Pods.
• As a smart speaker HomePod is good (not excellent bc “Siri”) but expensive.
• Love the software updates.
• Apple ecosystem only.
Koan 1: Your phone has a camera but there are better cameras for less money; therefore, your phone is not worth buying. (This logic works if you only need a camera but fails if you want a phone.)
What does that koan have to do with the HomePod? If you want a camera, buy a camera. If you want a stereo, buy a stereo. Apple's HomePod (and HomePod 2) is an exercise into computational audio, much like their iPhone cameras are exercises into computational photography. In the HomePod’s case, Apple has put okay hardware in an unconventional design, added a pretty good CPU, and designed software to try to correct issues inherent in all audio systems through programming. It worked pretty well for smartphone photography (after a few iterations); however, it was only interesting, not great, at first. The HomePod 2 is to audio what the iPhone XS was to pocket cameras - a good first step but we’re not there yet.
Bad News: The Sound - Let’s get this out of the way. HomePod 2 is a great sounding smart speaker but as a stereo speaker it doesn’t have the bass or detail for audiophiles, if that’s your thing. Oh, and the sibilant “S” is hard for me to ignore. [Added: performing a reset on both HomePods clean up the sibilance issue greatly, but it is still an issue on some material] Compared with headphones, I was amazed how much detail the HomePod missed. Entire instruments vanished into a sonic wash. You know, like a smart speaker. If you want to play audiophile, save your money because you will not be happy.
Good News: ATMOS - I replaced my (not ATMOS) wired soundbar with a HomePod 2 stereo pair and the HomePod sounded better enough I gave my soundbar away. My TV room is awful; hard floors, bare walls, low ceiling, and bad “L” geometry. (Mom; in Hell, send bass traps!) The HomePods sounded like mud out of the box and, along with my AppleTV, required software updates. After the updates, the HomePods performed auto EQ and sounded better in the room than anything I had tried to date. Bonus, fewer wires and it doesn’t block my CC text on the bottom of the screen. If Apple added the ability to gang 2 or 3 more, or at least a sub, and you might have a Sennheiser Ambeo replacement. However, as with my older sound bar, there is sibilance on spoken “S” sounds.
Last “Smart” Words - Out of the little white box I found the HomePod 2 to have muddy audio, glaring sibilant “S” issues, and the smart speaker performance was not “smart.” The second morning there were two updates. (16.0 and 16.3.1) The audio certainly improved a noticeable amount and some “smart” was added to the speakers. [Added: and the sibilant “S” was almost eliminated later]
That is why I am keeping both of my HomePod 2s: Apple can tweak the usability with software updates. A regular stereo setup doesn’t improve this much with an OTA update. The computational audio aspect is worth my support. Oh, and they are working very well as a soundbar.
The HomePod is not just a speaker; it’s a computational audio device. There are better/cheaper music systems. I see HomePod as something else. I hope they keep trying for the next 10 years, I’d like to see where this takes us.
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Don't worry mate, in the meantime I came across a reprint of Men Explain Things to Me and had a good laugh.
Hence you said Spotify couldn’t do anything to improve the experience, unlike your original premise.
dshreter
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I didn’t say Spotify couldn’t do anything to improve the experience. I said they could integrate with SiriKit to enable voice control and untethered playback.
I also said Apple’s solution for 3rd parties lacks functionality in comparison to Spotify Connect, which it does.
It seems like you’re interested in having very precise arguments over language use then making very imprecise conclusions. Is there a reason you are doing this?
I seem to have unintentionally been drawn into an argument with you and I don’t even know what point you’re trying to make.
