• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Apple AirPods Max Review (Noise Cancelling Headphone)

MayaTlab

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
947
Likes
1,570
a rational design process.

I'm not certain that a lot of of the APM's design is that rational to begin with. The headband to cup attachment spring loaded pivot mechanism for example : I can't think of a lot of good reasons for it.

In the following patent, showing a part that looks very similar to the finished product's mechanism (figure 6 and on) : https://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum=0&docid=20190238963&IDKey=A9D47CF727DC&HomeUrl=http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2%26Sect2=HITOFF%26u=%252Fnetahtml%252FPTO%252Fsearch-adv.html%26r=10%26p=1%26f=G%26l=50%26d=PG01%26S1=(apple.AANM.%2BAND%2B20190801.PD.)%26OS=aanm/apple%2Band%2Bpd/8/1/2019%26RS=(AANM/apple%2BAND%2BPD/20190801)
They justify it by writing this :
Screenshot_2021-02-08_at_21.30.49.png


So the theoretical benefits would be that by eliminating the traditional yoke mechanism the spring loaded pivot could reduce the overall bulk of the headphones.

That's very theoretical because :
- As the XM4 shows a traditional yoke design can still result in a headband with a low profile and not stick out too much from the head (counter examples : HD350BT, H95, these make you look like Teletubbies). You just have to offset the yoke.
- Other headphones can also achieve a slim earcup profile (Huawei FreeBuds Studio for example).
- The total weight of the APM is among the highest in its class - and I'm ready to bet that the pivot mechanism alone is significantly heavier than ugly, cheap but still reliable plastic Y shaped yokes.
- The width and height of the cups is among the largest in its class (some of it is just because there's a lot of empty air in them though. When apple introduced the Macbook 12" they said they don't want to ship air, well that's very much what they're doing with the APM :D).

And the drawbacks are significant :
- It might be one of the most - if not the most - complicated mechanical piece ever put in a pair of headphones : https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/AirPods+Max+Teardown/139369
One of the reasons I got to use several copies of it is that a few of them would develop a mechanical "click" in that area after a while.
It must have been a nightmare to solve from a production / tolerancing perspective and probably adds quite a bit to the cost.
As a general rule the APM's design requires (often needlessly as simpler solutions were available) super-tight tolerances to even work, but the pivot particularly so.
- More importantly it severely compromises the capacity of the APM to properly seal in edge cases. The beauty of a well-designed (I'm afraid most aren't), traditional yoke mechanism is that "it just works" in the sense that it naturally applies the clamping force of the headband in the right area on the earcup, allowing the latter's range of motion to evenly compress the pads around the ear with no need for a spring or a complicated mechanism. With Apple's solution you have two forces fighting against each others : the headband's clamping force, applying pressure at the top of the cups, and the spring loaded mechanism, applying pressure at the bottom. Since this is fixed at the design stage, it results in a sub-optimal pad compression for everyone as we all have a different head shape (some people will have too much pressure at the top, others at the bottom for example). While my ex Bose 700 would consistently seal regardless of how much I bended my neck, with the AirPods Max seal gets broken when I significantly rotate it (although it's nowhere near as bad as the K371, another example of a poor hinge design). The only way I found to improve that problem is to forcefully bend the headband outwards to reduce clamp pressure - thereby alterating the ratio between these two contradicting forces in a way that suits my head shape better. Thankfully the feedback mechanism maintains a more or less constant FR curve regardless of that design as long as I'm not hitting edge situations.

I'm actually very impressed that Apple made that irrational design decision decently work for most people (I'm still getting a decent seal most of the time), but I can't even imagine the amount of resources that must have been wasted in it for very few benefits in the end to the user.
As ugly as it is, the QC35II (and most likely the upcoming QC45) is for me a much simpler way to make a design that flat-out works better in nearly every way as portable, ANC over-ears (comfort, consistency of seal, packability, ease of deployment, etc.).

Apple has a history of taking some rather weird decisions that may not be that rational to begin with. The AirPods Pro's flush venting hole for example, for which Apple took the rather unusual (for them) step to make an explicit hardware revision (now it's slightly recessed, to reduce its chance of it getting clogged up with ear wax and result in this : https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211147.
When you look at he previous revision you just go "why did they not think of that :/ ?"

Because it doesn't conform to the Harman curve

Sound-wise, I encourage you to actually try them.
 
Last edited:

JJB70

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
2,905
Likes
6,151
Location
Singapore
I'm not certain that a lot of of the APM's design is that rational to begin with. The headband to cup attachment spring loaded pivot mechanism for example : I can't think of a lot of good reasons for it.

In the following patent, showing a part that looks very similar to the finished product's mechanism (figure 6 and on) : https://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum=0&docid=20190238963&IDKey=A9D47CF727DC&HomeUrl=http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2%26Sect2=HITOFF%26u=%252Fnetahtml%252FPTO%252Fsearch-adv.html%26r=10%26p=1%26f=G%26l=50%26d=PG01%26S1=(apple.AANM.%2BAND%2B20190801.PD.)%26OS=aanm/apple%2Band%2Bpd/8/1/2019%26RS=(AANM/apple%2BAND%2BPD/20190801)
They justify it by writing this :
View attachment 151063

So the theoretical benefits would be that by eliminating the traditional yoke mechanism the spring loaded pivot could reduce the overall bulk of the headphones.

That's very theoretical because :
- As the XM4 shows a traditional yoke design can still result in a headband with a low profile and not stick out too much from the head (counter examples : HD350BT, H95, these make you look like Teletubbies). You just have to offset the yoke.
- Other headphones can also achieve a slim earcup profile (Huawei FreeBuds Studio for example).
- The total weight of the APM is among the highest in its class - and I'm ready to bet that the pivot mechanism alone is significantly heavier than ugly, cheap but still reliable plastic Y shaped yokes.
- The width and height of the cups is among the largest in its class (some of it is just because there's a lot of empty air in them though. When apple introduced the Macbook 12" they said they don't want to ship air, well that's very much what they're doing with the APM :D).

And the drawbacks are significant :
- It might be one of the most - if not the most - complicated mechanical piece ever put in a pair of headphones : https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/AirPods+Max+Teardown/139369
One of the reasons I got to use several copies of it is that a few of them would develop a mechanical "click" in that area after a while.
It must have been a nightmare to solve from a production / tolerancing perspective and probably adds quite a bit to the cost.
As a general rule the APM's design requires (often needlessly as simpler solutions were available) super-tight tolerances to even work, but the pivot particularly so.
- More importantly it severely compromises the capacity of the APM to properly seal in edge cases. The beauty of a well-designed (I'm afraid most aren't), traditional yoke mechanism is that "it just works" in the sense that it naturally applies the clamping force of the headband in the right area on the earcup, allowing the latter's range of motion to evenly compress the pads around the ear with no need for a spring or a complicated mechanism. With Apple's solution you have two forces fighting against each others : the headband's clamping force, applying pressure at the top of the cups, and the spring loaded mechanism, applying pressure at the bottom. Since this is fixed at the design stage, it results in a sub-optimal pad compression for everyone as we all have a different head shape (some people will have too much pressure at the top, others at the bottom for example). While my ex Bose 700 would consistently seal regardless of how much I bended my neck, with the AirPods Max seal gets broken when I significantly rotate it (although it's nowhere near as bad as the K371, another example of a poor hinge design). The only way I found to improve that problem is to forcefully bend the headband outwards to reduce clamp pressure - thereby alterating the ratio between these two contradicting forces in a way that suits my head shape better. Thankfully the feedback mechanism maintains a more or less constant FR curve regardless of that design as long as I'm not hitting edge situations.

I'm actually very impressed that Apple made that irrational design decision decently work for most people (I'm still getting a decent seal most of the time), but I can't even imagine the amount of resources that must have been wasted in it for very few benefits in the end to the user.
As ugly as it is, the QC35II (and most likely the upcoming QC45) is for me a much simpler way to make a design that flat-out works better in nearly every way as portable, ANC over-ears (comfort, consistency of seal, packability, ease of deployment, etc.).

Apple has a history of taking some rather weird decisions that may not be that rational to begin with. The AirPods Pro's flush venting hole for example, for which Apple took the rather unusual (for them) step to make an explicit hardware revision (now it's slightly recessed, to reduce its chance of it getting clogged up with ear wax and result in this : https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211147.
When you look at he previous revision you just go "why did they not think of that :/ ?"



Sound-wise, I encourage you to actually try them.

To be honest I personally don't like these. They're too heavy and bulky to be good travel and mobile headphones and for home use I don't really consider ANC to be necessary and prefer wired. However I did think sound quality was good and although it is not really my cup of tea I thought it well done. My main objection if I was thinking of buying a pair would be the price. They're very good but unless you really want the Apple brand thing you can get excellent wireless ANC headphones for a lot less from Bose and Sony especially. I think a lot of the design choices are just to differentiate it in the market and provide a premium feel to match the high price.
But that's the thing, different people have different opinions. Although they're not something I would buy I can see why others will. And compared to many headphones the price isn't particularly high anymore (which says more about the headphone market than this particular model). However the one bit I really wouldn't criticise is sound quality as although it is not my preference it seemed to do what it does very well.
 

tusing

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Messages
85
Likes
186
I hated the sound when I tried these.

These would have been god-tier if Apple selected a somewhat sane target curve. What the hell was Apple thinking? The AirPods Pro had a reasonable target, after all. Why did they regress?
 

Rayman30

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
801
Likes
637
With EQ the sound is acceptable, I found the bass to be good, the treble is acceptable, my only reservation is the mid range, it has a honky characteristic to it. I am using Oratory's EQ, but I detect some upper midrange shout, not sure but maybe it could be EQd out.
 
Last edited:

MayaTlab

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
947
Likes
1,570
With EQ the sound is acceptable, I found the bass to be good, the treble is acceptable, my only reservation is the mid range, it has a honky characteristic to it. I am using Oratory's EQ, but I detect some upper midrange shout, not sure but maybe it could be EQd out.

With Oratory's profile ? If so for a start try to experiment by reducing the correction in the 1-3kHz region (but maintain the 4kHz correction). Unfortunately Oratory's preset filters doesn't make it easy to do so so you may need an extra negative filter.
 

Rayman30

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
801
Likes
637
With Oratory's profile ? If so for a start try to experiment by reducing the correction in the 1-3kHz region (but maintain the 4kHz correction). Unfortunately Oratory's preset filters doesn't make it easy to do so so you may need an extra negative filter.

It could be placebo, but things like high hats have a honky sound to them. Il mess around with EQ and see what can be done.
 

Darwin

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2017
Messages
304
Likes
139
I'm pretty in love with spatial audio/Atmos so loving the Max as well as the Pros with these. Atmos movies on Apple TV are really good too with the Max. I'm Atmos all the way now. I have no issues with sound quality after tweaking the EQ a little. But I'm sure I'm not as discerning as some of you here not having had super high quality headphones in the past. I find spatial/atmos audio to be far more interesting than lossless.
 
Last edited:

Darwin

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2017
Messages
304
Likes
139
To be honest I personally don't like these. They're too heavy and bulky to be good travel and mobile headphones and for home use I don't really consider ANC to be necessary and prefer wired. However I did think sound quality was good and although it is not really my cup of tea I thought it well done. My main objection if I was thinking of buying a pair would be the price. They're very good but unless you really want the Apple brand thing you can get excellent wireless ANC headphones for a lot less from Bose and Sony especially. I think a lot of the design choices are just to differentiate it in the market and provide a premium feel to match the high price.
But that's the thing, different people have different opinions. Although they're not something I would buy I can see why others will. And compared to many headphones the price isn't particularly high anymore (which says more about the headphone market than this particular model). However the one bit I really wouldn't criticise is sound quality as although it is not my preference it seemed to do what it does very well.
I don't find Sony or Bose, especially Bose, to sound anywhere near as good. It didn't surprise me in a way because I thought the bass was out of control on the latest Sonys and even with all the EQ options it just created even more of a muddled mess. I bought the XM4 when they came out and returned them for this reason. I'm not alone in this opinion. Sony's really need LDAC in my view to sound good which isn't an option for lots of people if you don't have an LDAC capable device. I've worn the Max for hours with no issues and I have a big pumpkin head. I find the mesh band distributes the weight well at least for me. Love the build quality. Bought mine new and shrink wrapped on eBay for $400. ANC is great with these and I have it on even at home. Same with the Pro's. Would like a better case of course and am pretty annoyed these aren't USB-C too. But there are a bazillion cheap cases on Amazon.
 

Darwin

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2017
Messages
304
Likes
139
Thank you! That helped a lot! Amir’s right. Sounds much better with a treble boost, and when you turn the compensation off, it really sounds dull.
I still prefer the sound of my JBL in-ear Club Pro though.
That really helped me alot too and I also selected reduce bass in the EQ. Loving them especially with all the spatial audio coming out on apple music. They are great with apple tv and movies with atmos too.
 

Darwin

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2017
Messages
304
Likes
139
The manual clearly says you can use it with non-Apple products:

View attachment 146498


Until they change that, that is how I treat it.

BTW, I forgot to gripe about the readability of the manual in the review. Why on earth do they use that gray, low contrast font for the manual? My eyes were hurting trying to read the stupid thing. Of all companies, I expect Apple to get this right. Instead it seems they went for style as opposed to functionality.
It's not optimal though and a measurement with apple devices would be pretty interesting. Then again I don't get too wound up over measurements. I get the impression Apples DSP means a lot of the measurements aren't necessarily valid anyway. Agree on the font, vestiges of Ive.
 

Darwin

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2017
Messages
304
Likes
139
Amazing. I have to assume it is the same factory apple is using producing these after dark....
Doubtful since some are $19...what a mess over there on Ali Express. Makes eBay look solid. Then again I got my Max on eBay shrink wrapped and perfect for $400. Maybe fell off a truck I dunno...
 

Darwin

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2017
Messages
304
Likes
139

Rayman30

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
801
Likes
637
Amir's EQ settings sound better to me than Oratory on this set, the latter had an annoying upper midrange (snares were intolerable)
 

platimn

Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2021
Messages
33
Likes
16
How is the spatial audio on these compared to other offerings like Hesuvi (also Impulcifer), Waves NX (with head tracker or Mobius), Immerse, Super X-Fi, etc., etc. Smyth Realizer will of course be superior due to using precise methods to actually determine room-corrected HRTF and adding IR for better than IMU tracking. But as a one size fits all general solution can the Airpods Max and Apple TV be assumed to be the absolute best virtual surround implementation yet?
 

NewCoke

New Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Messages
4
Likes
1
How is the spatial audio on these compared to other offerings like Hesuvi (also Impulcifer), Waves NX (with head tracker or Mobius), Immerse, Super X-Fi, etc., etc. Smyth Realizer will of course be superior due to using precise methods to actually determine room-corrected HRTF and adding IR for better than IMU tracking. But as a one size fits all general solution can the Airpods Max and Apple TV be assumed to be the absolute best virtual surround implementation yet?

To me, with all of the gains of the excellent bass and semi-haptic feedback from the bass for APM on tvOS, the APM really falls on its face and substracts from those gains with it's lack of soundstage and volume. At least for me, I'm always wanting more juice for non-action scenes.

I personally prefer Atmos on XBOX with a set of cans with huge soundstage and good bass. I much rather have things sound way more left and right for immersiveness, than have head tracking with a relatively narrow soundstage. Volume should not be much of an issue for movies, too.
 

Terry

New Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Messages
1
Likes
4
Have had the Max for two weeks now and in my opinion they are great for casual listening, music and films. They are not marketed as audiophile headphones ( whatever that is supposed to mean ), just good quality sounding bluetooth headphones especially if you are in the Apple eco system. If I want to go up a gear or two I listen to my Sennheiser HD650's via Roon or CD, Headphone Amp. People sometimes want to compare apples to oranges.
 

Merkurio

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2018
Messages
301
Likes
512
Received my pair today (got them for under $440).

@amirm You're spot on with the EQ, it dramatically improves the sense of clarity and openness, making them a joy to listen now.

From pasable to outstanding with just two filters (although I was more conservative with the gain, 1-2 dB less than you in both cases), but wow.

Easily my favorite closed-back now and one terrific sounding headphone overall (with all the benefits of being a wireless ANC set), thanks boss! :)
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom