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Apple AirPods Max Review (Noise Cancelling Headphone)

oleg87

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I suspect the online reviews say its fantastic because it's actually a pretty darn good sounding headphone, graded on the ANC headphone curve. If there's something less tonally problematic it's certainly not made by Sony or Bose.
 
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Apple with more R&D and manufacturing resources than any headphone company gets a few things really right such as extra low distortion and excellent bass response. Alas, they either listened to Beats people, marketing or who knows who to through out all that energy in the 1 to 7 kHz. Don't they know our ears naturally amplify that region for a reason? What book did they read that said you want to have flat response there? I am amazed how many online reviewers said this thing sounds great. Really? What is your reference? The old wired home phones?

Without EQ, the Apple AirPods is one terrible sounding headphone. As much as I like bass, I hate it without balancing high frequencies. I paid for the full spectrum of the music I consume, not just the bass. So please give it all to me. With EQ, the sound becomes very good prompting me to recommend it such. How good, I can't quite tell because I can't get enough volume on Windows. It can range from good to great.

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.
That's your opinion. Let's all remember that.
I had Max, they sound very good. One of the best wireless NC's for music. Haven't heard Focal Bathys though.
I didn't keeped them because they leaked too much sound out.

Do a test; once in your life listen something without measuring it first? Give your opinion based on that.
Though i understand it's great to say that Apple sucks. ;) And also almost everything that has high price sucks, it's nice to give them bad reviews?

EDIT: btw, did you listen music with AAC with Max? Other codecs may ruin the sound also.
AAC from iPhone/iPad is the only right right way to use Max.
 
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MayaTlab

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RTings seems to have confirmed that there's a measurable difference.

Rtings' measurements also show a difference in passive isolation when ANC is turned off, which is unlikely to be affected by a firmware update. When looking at the delta between ANC off and on the difference is more similar between the firmwares. This could point to a methodological issue first and foremost.

Screenshot 2022-11-30 at 08.59.53.png
Screenshot 2022-11-30 at 08.59.59.png


I have very low trust in Les Numériques' measurements, but for what it's worth, they found very little difference : https://www.lesnumeriques.com/casqu...s-max-est-elle-moins-performante-n194771.html

The little meshes Apple uses to cover their mic cavities can get gunked up with skin oils and whatnot after some years, so I'd also take a close look at them if you find your mics or ANC no longer working well (haven't figured out a good way to clean them, though).

Is it happening to you with the AirPods Max ? On the first generation AirPods Pro it has been a significant issue but it seems to me that it would take quite a bit of effort to clog up all the meshes on the APM.
You can try Blu Tack to clean them.
 

MayaTlab

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EDIT: btw, did you listen music with AAC with Max? Other codecs may ruin the sound also.
AAC from iPhone/iPad is the only right right way to use Max.

I have found no difference when measuring them with SBC and AAC.
 

timblocktoom

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I guess that you've probably already checked, but are the pads in good working order ?

A good question and point - they should be as I've only had them 10 months or so and don't use them a ton necessarily.

I've thought about buying new ones, but it seemed like these should still be good (I'd hope!?) and the pads are pretty spendy so I haven't gone that route yet.

Now that I'm googling around, it does seem like the internet is full of people claiming Apple "nerfed" the ANC with firmware along the way here.
Not sure what to make of those reports ... but sure are a lot of people claiming something has happened there
 

oleg87

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I also wonder if the tonality changed with firmware updates from whenever this review was done? Or some other sneaky poorly-documented DSP playing tricks on me? (these headphones are a little too "smart" for their own good) I don't put great stock in such memories I remember these sounding considerably darker when I demoed them last year vs the pair I got on black friday, and Amir's boosts to the pinna gain are absolutely unlistenable with my set.
 

MayaTlab

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I also wonder if the tonality changed with firmware updates from whenever this review was done?

Probably not. I have not directly measured the APM before and after all firmware updates, but this is six traces of the APM taken over time (from November 2021 to November 2022) that include :
- four different samples
- several different firmwares
- pads in a different state (the most different trace was measured with brand new pads, the others are all broken in pads, for a few traces the same ones) - so far that's the most significant factor I've measured.
And, mind you, averages to averages differences even when measuring the exact same sample.

APM over time.jpg


Or some other sneaky poorly-documented DSP playing tricks on me? (these headphones are a little too "smart" for their own good)

Other than the feedback mechanism operating in ANC off mode and requiring a broad signal to update its filters (which can occasionally lead to inaccuracies when measuring them with sweeps in that mode with the usual multiple seatings, without priming them properly), I have not detected so far any DSP trick. The more recent H2 APP2 are a bit more complex but I don't think that it applies to the APM.

I don't put great stock in such memories I remember these sounding considerably darker when I demoed them last year vs the pair I got on black friday, and Amir's boosts to the pinna gain are absolutely unlistenable with my set.

For me as well, for a fairly simple reason : most of the measurements I've seen so far are not representative of how they actually behave on my head.

This is the sample I have at home currently vs two different ways to guesstimate what the Harman target is meant to sound like, one an average of several large open headphones EQed to the target according to Oratory's presets, the other one an average of several high-scoring passive headphones from Harman, and my own preference :

APM vs targets estimations.jpg


If I compare the error curve vs these estimations and my own target, and the error curve vs Harman from measurements performed on 711 systems, including ASR (in red), I get this :

APM error curves.jpg


In other words as far as I'm concerned (and it could be different for someone else... or not, we'd need to actually measure the APM's on head behaviour on a cohort of real humans) the situation, while still not ideal, is a lot less problematic than what the ear simulator measurements would suggest, and it isn't a question of sample variation.

A recent presentation from Sean Olive on the question of coupling issues : https://danishsoundcluster.dk/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Olive_DSD_2022.pdf
 

Robbo99999

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Probably not. I have not directly measured the APM before and after all firmware updates, but this is six traces of the APM taken over time (from November 2021 to November 2022) that include :
- four different samples
- several different firmwares
- pads in a different state (the most different trace was measured with brand new pads, the others are all broken in pads, for a few traces the same ones) - so far that's the most significant factor I've measured.
And, mind you, averages to averages differences even when measuring the exact same sample.

View attachment 246980



Other than the feedback mechanism operating in ANC off mode and requiring a broad signal to update its filters (which can occasionally lead to inaccuracies when measuring them with sweeps in that mode with the usual multiple seatings, without priming them properly), I have not detected so far any DSP trick. The more recent H2 APP2 are a bit more complex but I don't think that it applies to the APM.



For me as well, for a fairly simple reason : most of the measurements I've seen so far are not representative of how they actually behave on my head.

This is the sample I have at home currently vs two different ways to guesstimate what the Harman target is meant to sound like, one an average of several large open headphones EQed to the target according to Oratory's presets, the other one an average of several high-scoring passive headphones from Harman, and my own preference :

View attachment 246981

If I compare the error curve vs these estimations and my own target, and the error curve vs Harman from measurements performed on 711 systems, including ASR (in red), I get this :

View attachment 246982

In other words as far as I'm concerned (and it could be different for someone else... or not, we'd need to actually measure the APM's on head behaviour on a cohort of real humans) the situation, while still not ideal, is a lot less problematic than what the ear simulator measurements would suggest, and it isn't a question of sample variation.

A recent presentation from Sean Olive on the question of coupling issues : https://danishsoundcluster.dk/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Olive_DSD_2022.pdf
Thanks for that Sean Olive presentation pdf link, that was very interesting, got through to Test Fixtures vs Real Humans part and then couldn't resist posting an idea I had (still have the rest of presentation to read). This idea is based the following slide:
Humans vs Test Fixtures.jpg

I reckon it's possible that this difference has contributed to the Harman 2018 Target that was created. The Harman 2018 Target has more treble and more bass than a "neutral" at eardrum measurement in a dummyhead in their Harman listening room (the Harman 2013 Curve is actually the neutral one, highlighting this for a later point). The fact that headphone measurements were overestimated in energy above 2kHz would mean that the Target Curve would have to have more energy above 2kHz in comparison to the at eardrum measurement in the dummy head in order to equate to the "same" experience of a human wearing that headphone - which corroborates with the fact that the Harman 2018 Curve has more treble above 3.5kHz than the 2013 Curve. I think the same can be explained re the increased bass in the Harman 2018 Curve, if I'm correct in thinking that Harman measured & equalised their headphones on "flat plates with pinna", then effectively this means that headphone measurements on that fixture shows around 2-4dB more bass than the headphones on a real human, so therefore it makes sense that the Harman Target has more bass than what would be considered a neutral eardrum in mannequin head measurement of neutral speakers (ie the Harman 2013 Curve). I know the Harman 2013 Curve is the previously theoretical neutral one because I worked out using REW that it is exactly equal to the slope of the Harman Speaker Curve applied to the the following at eardrum of mannequin measurement from Harman:

Harman target baseline, GRAS 45CA.png


And for reference to previous points made in this post following graph is showing the difference between Harman 2013 and Harman 2018, which shows the increased energy of Harman 2018 Curve vs Harman 2013 Curve above 3.5kHz, as well as increased bass:
Overlay-of-Harman-over-ear-headphone-and-in-ear-monitor-curves.-1100x589.jpg

EDIT: so the Harman 2018 Curve is often accused of being non-neutral due to increased bass & treble, when in fact this just happens to correlate with "flat plate pinna" measurements of headphones showing excess treble & bass - so if measuring a headphone on such a device then it would have to have this excess bass & treble baked into the target to allow for this - and indeed the Harman 2018 Curve does happen to have that baked in vs the what would have previously been worked out neutral Harman 2013 Curve.

EDIT #2: it's possible that even the 2015 Harman Curve is the more neutral one as it has increased energy starting from around 2.3kHz which would seem to match the "above 2kHz increased treble" of test fixture measurements vs humans, whereas the 2018 Curve only has increased treble starting from 3.5kHz.

EDIT#3: I know we normally explain away the increased bass of the Harman 2018 Curve by stating "lack of tactile bass" in headphones as the reason, but it seems that the theories I brought up earlier in the post also support the idea of increased bass.

EDIT#4: If you want to try the Harman 2015 Curve then add the following filters to your current Harman 2018 EQ:
Peak 2700 Hz Gain 2 dB Q 2
Low Shelf 1000 Hz Gain -0.4 dB Q 0.707
Peak 153 Hz Gain -0.8 dB Q 1.7

So, those are my thoughts on it, there seems to be some correlations.

EDIT #5: Well, we'd have to know which coloured line in the graph (at the beginning of my post) was the GRAS line in order to extrapolate whether my idea was valid, as one of the flat plate pinna fixtures was under-reading the treble and the other one was overreading it.
 
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Axo1989

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... Now that I'm googling around, it does seem like the internet is full of people claiming Apple "nerfed" the ANC with firmware along the way here.
Not sure what to make of those reports ... but sure are a lot of people claiming something has happened there

The internet is an effective generator/amplifier for folie à plusieurs.
 

timblocktoom

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The internet is an effective generator/amplifier for folie à plusieurs.

No question -- but I honestly had noticed this quite a bit myself before ever looking for others seeing similar online
I think there's some merit to something going on here
 

Axo1989

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No question -- but I honestly had noticed this quite a bit myself before ever looking for others seeing similar online
I think there's some merit to something going on here

I have APM also, haven't noticed a change, but I don't listen to them (or headphones generally) a whole lot (as headphones go, I think they are pretty good). I didn't even know that they update themselves, but I'm going to check the firmware version and see where mine are up to.
 

tusing

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Has anyone tried these with Personalized Spatial Audio? I’m absolutely loving them now whereas I had a lukewarm impression before personalizing. The sub-bass response on Apple’s AirPods line is to die for
 

oleg87

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Ugh, ended up returning mine after a week. As nice they are in most respects, somehow for all the R&D that clearly went into them, these are by far the most uncomfortable headphones I've ever owned. Tried to stretch the headband out a bit and now I can go for 2 hours before getting a headache instead of 30 minutes, and I fear I'll break them before I can wear them for an entire workday. Really hope they improve the ergonomics with Gen2, if that happens.
 

juliangst

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I didn‘t know we had measurements for the AirPods Max here.

Tested them yesterday and today in the Apple Store. The tonality is ‚dark’ but I actually liked it with pop music (not so much with classical music).

The problem is volume. I checked all settings and tried several AirPods Max but all of them didn’t get loud enough.

I want really high SPL to make sure that I’ll never have to turn the volume to 100%.

Some tracks were fine but others (classical music but also pop music with Dolby atmos turned on) were barely loud enough at 100% volume which is unacceptable.
 

majingotan

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I didn‘t know we had measurements for the AirPods Max here.

Tested them yesterday and today in the Apple Store. The tonality is ‚dark’ but I actually liked it with pop music (not so much with classical music).

The problem is volume. I checked all settings and tried several AirPods Max but all of them didn’t get loud enough.

I want really high SPL to make sure that I’ll never have to turn the volume to 100%.

Some tracks were fine but others (classical music but also pop music with Dolby atmos turned on) were barely loud enough at 100% volume which is unacceptable.

With Apple, there are seriously convoluted accessibility options that strictly limit listening levels capped at 85 dB SPL especially when it detects extended listening at its bogus 85 dB SPL per its app
 
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