• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

apparently we and certain audiophile reviewers (NRD) are listening to completely different things when we review DACs

DanielT

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
1,073
Likes
721
Location
Sweden
I sometimes experience the Hifi world is a bit like being in some kind of parallel universe, bizzar o world. I mean take, say, basically any other test in terms of electronics, mechanics: cars, boats, washing machines, refrigerators, drills and so on. Then be sure to read the technical specifications. HiFi and evaluations and its technology. Seems to be Voodoo at times. Not here at ASR, luckily.
 
Last edited:

Mart68

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Messages
419
Likes
689
Location
England
This thing he talks about with the length of time it takes a cymbal to decay - absurd. How can he possibly determine that the cymbal decay is longer on one of the DACs when - even if it was a real phenomenon - at best the decay might linger for a fraction of a second longer?

So listen on one DAC, get up, unplug the DAC, plug in the other one, listen again. Takes at least a couple of minutes to do. And yet that memory of how long the decay lasted is still so strong that he can be sure it lingers on for less time on one of them? Yeah, of course he can.

Fact is he just thinks he can because claiming to be able to spot things like that is one of the accepted audiophile merit badges.

The reason other people don't hear it is because it's a) not real and b) even if it was it would still be impossible to perceive it. Nothing to do with them 'listening for different things.'

What actually separates golden ears from the rest of us is their heightened ability to kid themselves along. I think it comes from reading too many magazine reviews at an impressionable age.
 

Jimbob54

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
7,333
Likes
8,701
Could it be that it is not Loxjie D50 in itself that it is wrong but that he has not managed to connect it in the best way?

There really isnt that much you can do wrong! If sound is coming out of the system, its connected right.
 

DanielT

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
1,073
Likes
721
Location
Sweden
There really isnt that much you can do wrong! If sound is coming out of the system, its connected right.
Hypotheses, although these are far-fetched. When he compares DACs:
The same kind of signal into them?
Something very strange problem with grounding?

Or he imagines. Or he compares them and has different volumes, as you know the highest volume tends to sound best.

Can be a lot of different explanations.

Put him in a serious and according to all rules correctly performed blind test. Then we'll see.:cool:
 

Jimbob54

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
7,333
Likes
8,701
Hypotheses, although these are far-fetched. When he compares DACs:
The same kind of signal into them?
Something very strange problem with grounding?

Or he imagines. Or he compares them and has different volumes, as you know the highest volume tends to sound best.

Can be a lot of different explanations.

Put him in a serious and according to all rules correctly performed blind test. Then we'll see.:cool:
More likely, as you say, he just wants to like the other more. Let's not try and sidestep that by even suggesting outside factors at play. Get the controlled testing sorted, then if a difference is reliably detected start looking at reasons why.

It's the same story on this site day in, day out.
 

RHO

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Nov 20, 2020
Messages
562
Likes
383
Location
Belgium
Has anybody suffered through enough of Ron's NRD videos to get an idea of Ron's preferred configuration of his HoloAudio May DAC? When he is reviewing a DAC and pitting it against the May, does Ron take advantage of the May's oversampling features or does he use the May in NOS mode? If it is NOS mode is the ant-alias LPF also disabled?
I could handle about 4 minutes of the guy. I can't imagine anyone being able to watch a whole 9 minute video of him babbling nonsense.
... but apparently there are people who can. I don't know how they keep their stomach contents where it's supposed to be.
 

GimeDsp

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
409
Likes
341
Location
Earth
Wow, I sense serious animosity here!
Almost has the feel of a cult leader fighting to maintain control over the brainwashing of it's members, I am just saying this subjectively, subjectively it feels like a cult.
 

PatentLawyer

Active Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2021
Messages
149
Likes
195
Location
Deep in the Soundstage
Every time he says "time domain" to refer to something that is not any sense the "time domain", I want to put my fist through the screen.
 

Plcamp

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Messages
363
Likes
298
Fact is he just thinks he can because claiming to be able to spot things like that is one of the accepted audiophile merit badges.
Heh

Also factual that his raison d’être vaporizes if he claimed differently. Credible measurements threaten everything!
 

DanielT

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
1,073
Likes
721
Location
Sweden
Nope....

index.php


[URL unfurl = "true"] https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/loxjie-d50-review-stereo-dac.19528/ [/URL]



[URL unfurl = "true"] https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...olo-audio-may-probably-the-best-discrete-r2r- dac.10161/[/URL]



JSmith
However, what may be interesting in a comparison between Holo Audio May DAC and Loxjie D50 are concrete tangible aspects, such as general functionality (how is the volume control for example), user-friendliness, technical support, reliability, build quality, ability to integrate, guarantee, perhaps second-hand value and so on.
 
Last edited:

bo_knows

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2020
Messages
310
Likes
275
Location
Dallas, Texas USA
This thing he talks about with the length of time it takes a cymbal to decay - absurd. How can he possibly determine that the cymbal decay is longer on one of the DACs when - even if it was a real phenomenon - at best the decay might linger for a fraction of a second longer?

So listen on one DAC, get up, unplug the DAC, plug in the other one, listen again. Takes at least a couple of minutes to do. And yet that memory of how long the decay lasted is still so strong that he can be sure it lingers on for less time on one of them? Yeah, of course he can.

Fact is he just thinks he can because claiming to be able to spot things like that is one of the accepted audiophile merit badges.

The reason other people don't hear it is because it's a) not real and b) even if it was it would still be impossible to perceive it. Nothing to do with them 'listening for different things.'

What actually separates golden ears from the rest of us is their heightened ability to kid themselves along. I think it comes from reading too many magazine reviews at an impressionable age.
"So listen on one DAC, get up, unplug the DAC, plug in the other one, listen again. Takes at least a couple of minutes to do. And yet that memory of how long the decay lasted is still so strong that he can be sure it lingers on for less time on one of them? Yeah, of course he can." Is this is a joke? My audio memory is maybe good for a second or two MAX!
 

Mart68

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Messages
419
Likes
689
Location
England
"So listen on one DAC, get up, unplug the DAC, plug in the other one, listen again. Takes at least a couple of minutes to do. And yet that memory of how long the decay lasted is still so strong that he can be sure it lingers on for less time on one of them? Yeah, of course he can." Is this is a joke? My audio memory is maybe good for a second or two MAX!
It's a joke that he thinks he can.

I was actually doing some DAC comparisons with a friend this last week. I won't swap them out with power up since I use a Krell, and Krell specifically say in the manual not to do this. (The manual is basically 4 pages of Krell saying 'Don't cock about with this thing, it's not a toy').

By the time the DAC disconnection and hook up had been done and the amp re-started I just found it impossible to recall the details of the sound of the first DAC, He, on the other hand, was still pretty sure that one DAC had better bass. I find such confidence....unsettling. Both DACs are blameless measurement-wise.

Interestingly my perception in the swaps (we did a few) was that DAC 'A' sounded brighter and his was that DAC 'B' sounded brighter. The perils of uncontrolled subjective comparison ;)
 

DanielT

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
1,073
Likes
721
Location
Sweden
I compared a DVD vs CD player. The same input signal, ie the same recording. Two identical recordings at the same time, switching between them, one on AUX the other on CD input (tested with different amplifiers and speakers, same result each time). The same level of the output signal, synchronized.

Results:I could not hear a shit difference. With resrvation to be able to generalize these results that I probably have no gold ears and also have kind of a lo fi system. :D

Wrote about this: https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/what-is-this-no-golden-ears.26353/

Edit:
A tip for Ron, New Record Day

It's tricky to get it synchronized. Here's a song about it:

If you act as you think
The missing link
Synchronicity



By the way, I do not mind that people think they hear differences. People get to experience what they want. If it's about fooling yourself then hey it's a free world. Everyone is happy in their own faith.:)

Just do not make the subjective experience an objective fact
 
Last edited:

Siwel

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 24, 2020
Messages
124
Likes
179
Location
Nashville
I find his elocution stilted and pretentious. Also, his voice has no presence and his sound stage minimal and distracting.
He has the unique ability to project an air of superiority and pomposity while simultaneously making one feel incredibly sorry for him. You get the distinct impression he was always the very last person to be chosen for the team at every neighborhood tag football game. Yet he has still managed to attract a following on You Tube.

We are a doomed society!
 

Sal1950

Master Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
9,286
Likes
9,065
Location
Central Fl
Don't forget gentleman, the number #1 rule of comparing components is to match the levels to within 1/4, 0.25 db.
Without doing so, all manner of differences can be heard.
 
Top Bottom