Apollon Audio complaints

[sigbergaudio]

Pretty sure that the use of math would allow accurate timelines. I do not read any fuzzy times there.

My understanding of "estimated" is not the same as guaranteed. So actually they are not implying accurate timelines? This is what they estimate will happen, but it also may not happen for any number of reasons. Otherwise the word estimate would be wrong to use.

I understand that in your case it took twice as long as the estimate, and I understand that is surely not what you would expect. But as someone who has worked with product development, estimates are explicitly expected to be inaccurate, not accurate.

 

[Golfx]

My understanding of "estimated" is not the same as guaranteed. So actually they are not implying accurate timelines? This is what they estimate will happen, but it also may not happen for any number of reasons. Otherwise the word estimate would be wrong to use.

I understand that in your case it took twice as long as the estimate, and I understand that is surely not what you would expect. But as someone who has worked with product development, estimates are explicitly expected to be inaccurate, not accurate.

So I should not have expected those times given to be accurate? The language seems precise to me. I saw no wording suggesting anything else other than “holidays”.

 

[sigbergaudio]

So I should not have expected those times given to be accurate? The language seems precise to me. I saw no wording suggesting anything else other than “holidays”.

I'm not a native English speaker, so I will try not to be super confident here, but I'm tempted to go with no.

An estimate is not guaranteed to be accurate. To my understanding accurate and estimate are words with quite different meanings. "Accurate estimate" is an oxymoron.

 

[Golfx]

I'm not a native English speaker, so I will try not to be super confident here, but I'm tempted to go with no.

An estimate is not guaranteed to be accurate. To my understanding accurate and estimate are words with quite different meanings. "Accurate estimate" is an oxymoron.

Ah, ok, well as a native English speaker, I read his website info as precise times with allowances for holidays and weekends. I never saw the word estimate on the website.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Ah, ok, well as a native English speaker, I read his website info as precise times with allowances for holidays and weekends. I never saw the word estimate on the website.

I grant you that the precise language implies accuracy. For what it's worth @Apollon Audio, giving a precise number of days as an estimate, which then don't directly factor in weekends or holidays that customers are likely unaware of, makes it difficult for the customer to figure out what to expect.

Personally I would reduce the precision, making it more likely for the customer to expect some change or delay.

So instead of 30 working days minus holidays, I'd say something like "we estimate six weeks production time". Then maybe often you deliver in four-five weeks, and the customer will be pleasantly surprised. Sometimes it will be seven weeks, but that's only one more week than six, and feels less dramatic.

 

[Golfx]

I grant you that the precise language implies accuracy. For what it's worth @Apollon Audio, giving a precise number of days as an estimate, which then don't directly factor in weekends or holidays that customers are likely unaware of, makes it difficult for the customer to figure out what to expect.

Personally I would reduce the precision, making it more likely for the customer to expect some change or delay.

So instead of 30 working days minus holidays, I'd say something like "we estimate six weeks production time". Then maybe often you deliver in four-five weeks, and the customer will be pleasantly surprised. Sometimes it will be seven weeks, but that's only one more week than six, and feels less dramatic.

Oh that is what I suggested at the first interaction. Simpy to adjust the wording on the website to allow the possibility of taking more than the stated times in certain circumstances. Then customers who were anticipating delivery were not distressed with the possibility they had been forgotten or even duped.

 

[roberto.cagnazzi]

Hello everyone again, I was hoping I had closed things on my side with the last message, but it is clear that I now cannot avoid defending myself from the various criticisms and accusations that have been made.

This will be a long and boring post, so I apologize in advance to anyone who may find it out of place. But it will also be my last one on this topic.

I would like to start by thanking @tmtomh who tried to summarize the situation and bring it to a close, but I need to make some important corrections.

For this reason, even though it was never my intention to build a trial (with evidence included), I will make sure not to leave anything open to interpretation.

I would like to emphasize that I did not allow myself to make judgments or use offensive language. Instead, I received invitations to be honest, accurate, and to take responsibility. I read suggestions that Tibor should cancel the order and issue a refund (with Tibor’s like as well ). I also read many users defending Apollon Audio strongly, which is something I am genuinely happy about for Apollon. However, I wonder whether all these users are actually Apollon's customers with positive personal experiences. It would be more useful at that point to share their own experiences rather than judge those of others.

But let us now move on to the timeline, designed to avoid misinterpretation.

- As I already wrote, before completing the order I had a short but productive exchange of emails with Tibor. The content of these emails is relatively interesting; I received some suggestions and confirmation of Tibor’s willingness to upgrade the shipping.
Please note: I wrote to info@…, not to tibor@…, so it is not correct to suggest that I wanted to speak to him directly. He replied to my email, and for me he was therefore my point of contact. All the better from my point of view, since he is the owner.

- First clarification. To be precise, I placed two orders, always choosing bank transfer payment. The first order was for a higher-end amplifier model. Why a second order? Although it was my self-gift for my 40th birthday and the only gift I truly wanted, I ended up being “forced” to celebrate more times with more people. Expenses here and there meant I had to scale down my gift. Reluctantly, I placed a new order for the model mentioned in my original post.
Quick note: When placing an order with Apollon and paying by bank transfer, you immediately receive an email with the bank details for the transfer. It is also clearly stated that the order is only considered valid after payment.

- On April 20th I completed the second order and paid via instant bank transfer (2,369.30€). It was around lunchtime, and my time zone matches Slovenia’s, just for context.
Please note: in Italy, instant bank transfers arrive in 10 seconds. According to Gemini, Slovenia is part of the SEPA area, and Apollon’s bank Delavska Hranilnica supports the instant transfer scheme (SCT Inst). Of course Gemini can be wrong, and I have no reason to doubt Tibor’s sincerity, but this is what I was able to verify as a customer before paying. For me, that transfer was received instantly.

- Immediately after, at exactly 14:10, I wrote this email:
//
Hello Tibor,
thank you again for your availability and for agreeing to upgrade the shipment to DHL Express — I really appreciate it.
I wanted to inform you that I have just placed and already paid a new order (#xxxx), as I decided to switch to a different model at the last moment.
Could you please apply the same shipping arrangement (DHL Express) to this new order?
At the same time, you can cancel the previous order (#xxxx), as it has been replaced by this new one.
I also had a couple of quick questions:
• Does the amplifier come with a power cable included?
• If not, would my Ricable Primus Power cable be suitable for this amplifier?
• Do you confirm that Mogami 2534 would be a good choice for RCA interconnects in this setup?
Thank you again for your support and guidance throughout this process.
Can’t wait to enjoy it!
//
Up to this point, everything is fine as you can see.
Unfortunately, this is where the silence I complained about begins. I receive no reply from Tibor, nor any confirmation of payment received or anything else.
Nothing, ok? I hope no further interpretations are made.

- April 23rd, 10:57, having still received no sign of life from Apollon, I sent another email:
//
Hello Tibor,
I’m following up on my previous email, just in case it may have been missed.
I wanted to check on my order #xxxx and the bank transfer — could you please confirm that the payment has been received and that the order is now in production?
As mentioned in my previous message, this new order replaces the previous one (#xxxx), which can be cancelled.
I also wanted to kindly check if you had a chance to review my questions:
* power cable availability
* compatibility with my Ricable Primus power cable
* confirmation on Mogami 2534 RCA interconnects
Additionally, just to confirm, the DHL Express shipping upgrade we discussed should apply to this order as well.
Thank you very much for your support, and I look forward to your confirmation.
//
Still no reply. Nothing.

- April 24th, 22:44, I was honestly a bit concerned. Am I ashamed of that? No.
I joked with my partner, who told me “Looks like you got scammed with your gift.” I thought to myself, well, I’ve read so really good things about Apollon, come on. Still, I did some research online and ended up on a house under renovation on Google Maps at the address listed on Apollon’s website… A bit disappointed, I went back to Apollon’s site and saw there was a chat. I thought, why not? The content of the chat was already posted by Tibor, so I won’t repeat it here. He considers that to be the solution to everything and the reason why I am not being "honest". Personally, I just found it a bit unusual that someone was there at that time. Tibor is right in saying that nobody else does this, but there must be a reason, right? Having explained this feeling, which I understand may be debatable, I acknowledge that I had already received a prompt reply: “We received your payment” and “Your order is in production.”
Honestly, I thought: Tibor is answering on chat, and I’m sure he will reply to the email the next day as well. I was wrong.

- April 28th, 18:21, still no reply to my follow-up email, but finally the email “Thank you for your order” arrives.
This is a properly handled communication for me, but as already mentioned in my first report, 8 days had passed. Can this really be considered dishonest as a report?

At that point I already felt much more reassured, although I still wanted to buy cables etc. And by then I was already annoyed at being ignored for so many days, so…

- April 29th, 19:41, I sent another follow-up:
//
Hi Tibor,
could you please answer me?
//
Nothing more than that. Tibor later explained that he was on holiday with his family, during public holidays, etc. All perfectly fine, all legitimate. But how was I supposed to know that?
In any case, still no reply from my perspective.

- April 30th, 10:35, I post on ASR. A few hours later Tibor replies on ASR and to my emails. That’s where the whole story starts.

Now, I will really not write anything else, but I hope I will not be discredited again. People experience situations in different ways; some would likely have been more patient and relaxed.
Everyone is free to think what they want and to defend Apollon, that is fine. But please do not pre-judge those who have reported an experience they considered negative in a thread literally called “Apollon Audio complaints”.

At this point @Apollon Audio feel free to cancel the order and refund me if you wish, the company is yours. The fascination your products have given me for months will not diminish, nor will it change the perception of users regarding their quality.

Tibor, If I were in your place, I would also have defended my good faith but I would have admitted that with a few more communication adjustments, the misunderstanding could have been avoided.
I would have thanked you and we would have moved on.
That's all. Peace.

 

[Apollon Audio]

Hello everyone again, I was hoping I had closed things on my side with the last message, but it is clear that I now cannot avoid defending myself from the various criticisms and accusations that have been made.

This will be a long and boring post, so I apologize in advance to anyone who may find it out of place. But it will also be my last one on this topic.

I would like to start by thanking @tmtomh who tried to summarize the situation and bring it to a close, but I need to make some important corrections.

For this reason, even though it was never my intention to build a trial (with evidence included), I will make sure not to leave anything open to interpretation.

I would like to emphasize that I did not allow myself to make judgments or use offensive language. Instead, I received invitations to be honest, accurate, and to take responsibility. I read suggestions that Tibor should cancel the order and issue a refund (with Tibor’s like as well ). I also read many users defending Apollon Audio strongly, which is something I am genuinely happy about for Apollon. However, I wonder whether all these users are actually Apollon's customers with positive personal experiences. It would be more useful at that point to share their own experiences rather than judge those of others.

But let us now move on to the timeline, designed to avoid misinterpretation.

- As I already wrote, before completing the order I had a short but productive exchange of emails with Tibor. The content of these emails is relatively interesting; I received some suggestions and confirmation of Tibor’s willingness to upgrade the shipping.
Please note: I wrote to info@…, not to tibor@…, so it is not correct to suggest that I wanted to speak to him directly. He replied to my email, and for me he was therefore my point of contact. All the better from my point of view, since he is the owner.

- First clarification. To be precise, I placed two orders, always choosing bank transfer payment. The first order was for a higher-end amplifier model. Why a second order? Although it was my self-gift for my 40th birthday and the only gift I truly wanted, I ended up being “forced” to celebrate more times with more people. Expenses here and there meant I had to scale down my gift. Reluctantly, I placed a new order for the model mentioned in my original post.
Quick note: When placing an order with Apollon and paying by bank transfer, you immediately receive an email with the bank details for the transfer. It is also clearly stated that the order is only considered valid after payment.

- On April 20th I completed the second order and paid via instant bank transfer (2,369.30€). It was around lunchtime, and my time zone matches Slovenia’s, just for context.
Please note: in Italy, instant bank transfers arrive in 10 seconds. According to Gemini, Slovenia is part of the SEPA area, and Apollon’s bank Delavska Hranilnica supports the instant transfer scheme (SCT Inst). Of course Gemini can be wrong, and I have no reason to doubt Tibor’s sincerity, but this is what I was able to verify as a customer before paying. For me, that transfer was received instantly.

- Immediately after, at exactly 14:10, I wrote this email:
//
Hello Tibor,
thank you again for your availability and for agreeing to upgrade the shipment to DHL Express — I really appreciate it.
I wanted to inform you that I have just placed and already paid a new order (#xxxx), as I decided to switch to a different model at the last moment.
Could you please apply the same shipping arrangement (DHL Express) to this new order?
At the same time, you can cancel the previous order (#xxxx), as it has been replaced by this new one.
I also had a couple of quick questions:
• Does the amplifier come with a power cable included?
• If not, would my Ricable Primus Power cable be suitable for this amplifier?
• Do you confirm that Mogami 2534 would be a good choice for RCA interconnects in this setup?
Thank you again for your support and guidance throughout this process.
Can’t wait to enjoy it!
//
Up to this point, everything is fine as you can see.
Unfortunately, this is where the silence I complained about begins. I receive no reply from Tibor, nor any confirmation of payment received or anything else.
Nothing, ok? I hope no further interpretations are made.

- April 23rd, 10:57, having still received no sign of life from Apollon, I sent another email:
//
Hello Tibor,
I’m following up on my previous email, just in case it may have been missed.
I wanted to check on my order #xxxx and the bank transfer — could you please confirm that the payment has been received and that the order is now in production?
As mentioned in my previous message, this new order replaces the previous one (#xxxx), which can be cancelled.
I also wanted to kindly check if you had a chance to review my questions:
* power cable availability
* compatibility with my Ricable Primus power cable
* confirmation on Mogami 2534 RCA interconnects
Additionally, just to confirm, the DHL Express shipping upgrade we discussed should apply to this order as well.
Thank you very much for your support, and I look forward to your confirmation.
//
Still no reply. Nothing.

- April 24th, 22:44, I was honestly a bit concerned. Am I ashamed of that? No.
I joked with my partner, who told me “Looks like you got scammed with your gift.” I thought to myself, well, I’ve read so really good things about Apollon, come on. Still, I did some research online and ended up on a house under renovation on Google Maps at the address listed on Apollon’s website… A bit disappointed, I went back to Apollon’s site and saw there was a chat. I thought, why not? The content of the chat was already posted by Tibor, so I won’t repeat it here. He considers that to be the solution to everything and the reason why I am not being "honest". Personally, I just found it a bit unusual that someone was there at that time. Tibor is right in saying that nobody else does this, but there must be a reason, right? Having explained this feeling, which I understand may be debatable, I acknowledge that I had already received a prompt reply: “We received your payment” and “Your order is in production.”
Honestly, I thought: Tibor is answering on chat, and I’m sure he will reply to the email the next day as well. I was wrong.

- April 28th, 18:21, still no reply to my follow-up email, but finally the email “Thank you for your order” arrives.
This is a properly handled communication for me, but as already mentioned in my first report, 8 days had passed. Can this really be considered dishonest as a report?

View attachment 529975

At that point I already felt much more reassured, although I still wanted to buy cables etc. And by then I was already annoyed at being ignored for so many days, so…

- April 29th, 19:41, I sent another follow-up:
//
Hi Tibor,
could you please answer me?
//
Nothing more than that. Tibor later explained that he was on holiday with his family, during public holidays, etc. All perfectly fine, all legitimate. But how was I supposed to know that?
In any case, still no reply from my perspective.

- April 30th, 10:35, I post on ASR. A few hours later Tibor replies on ASR and to my emails. That’s where the whole story starts.

Now, I will really not write anything else, but I hope I will not be discredited again. People experience situations in different ways; some would likely have been more patient and relaxed.
Everyone is free to think what they want and to defend Apollon, that is fine. But please do not pre-judge those who have reported an experience they considered negative in a thread literally called “Apollon Audio complaints”.

At this point @Apollon Audio feel free to cancel the order and refund me if you wish, the company is yours. The fascination your products have given me for months will not diminish, nor will it change the perception of users regarding their quality.

Tibor, If I were in your place, I would also have defended my good faith but I would have admitted that with a few more communication adjustments, the misunderstanding could have been avoided.
I would have thanked you and we would have moved on.
That's all. Peace.

Roberto,

Thank you for your detailed explanation.

If you feel more comfortable, I’m happy to cancel the order and issue a full refund, no problem at all.

Otherwise, we will proceed as planned and complete your unit within the stated timeline.

 

[Apollon Audio]

Thank you everyone for the input and for sharing your experiences.

I think at this point everything has been said, and the situation is clear for anyone reading. We appreciate both the support and the constructive feedback.

We will continue doing our best to improve where it makes sense, while staying focused on what matters most, delivering high-quality products to our customers.

 

[roberto.cagnazzi]

Roberto,

Thank you for your detailed explanation.

If you feel more comfortable, I’m happy to cancel the order and issue a full refund, no problem at all.

Otherwise, we will proceed as planned and complete your unit within the stated timeline.

Happy to proceed with the order. I trust it will sound better than this whole situation
Lesson learned on my side as well.

 

[Marcel]

So on april 12th I ordered an amplifier from Apollon. Here is my timeline of events:
- april 12th: order placed
- april 26th: friendly request for estimated shipping date
- april 29th: friendly reminder sent
- april 29th: received reply 'your order is still in production and will be finished on 4. May after the Holidays in our country.'
- may 11th: inquiry by me 'Does this mean the order is finished now?'
may 15th (today): still waiting for response and the amplifier..

 

[JensA]

@Marcel
I don’t think it’s particularly helpful if every Apollon customer now goes into painstaking detail about their exact timeline.

We’ve only just discussed this at length:

- Apollon is a small manufacturer and only produces each amplifier after receiving an order, which you are already aware of when placing the order
- Apollon does not give fixed delivery date commitments, but in their FAQs provides the following information on expected delivery times:
"Estimated lead time is 14 working days for stereo amplifiers/monoblocks, 21 days for multichannel amplifiers and 30 working days for all Premium amplifiers. Please note that weekends and public holidays do not count as working days."

I have no idea what sort of Apollon amplifier you ordered, but even for a stereo amp/monoblock ordered on Sunday 12 April, the estimated 14-working-day lead time would not have been exceeded until 5 May.

I have absolutely no connection with Apollon Audio and am ‘merely’ a customer myself, but, particularly in this age of Amazon and minute-by-minute tracking, we should show some appreciation for excellent craftsmanship; any criticism of Apollon Audio should, first and foremost, be directed at the product itself.

 

[Paul7777x]

@Marcel
I don’t think it’s particularly helpful if every Apollon customer now goes into painstaking detail about their exact timeline.

We’ve only just discussed this at length:

- Apollon is a small manufacturer and only produces each amplifier after receiving an order, which you are already aware of when placing the order
- Apollon does not give fixed delivery date commitments, but in their FAQs provides the following information on expected delivery times:
"Estimated lead time is 14 working days for stereo amplifiers/monoblocks, 21 days for multichannel amplifiers and 30 working days for all Premium amplifiers. Please note that weekends and public holidays do not count as working days."

I have no idea what sort of Apollon amplifier you ordered, but even for a stereo amp/monoblock ordered on Sunday 12 April, the estimated 14-working-day lead time would not have been exceeded until 5 May.

I have absolutely no connection with Apollon Audio and am ‘merely’ a customer myself, but, particularly in this age of Amazon and minute-by-minute tracking, we should show soappreciation for excellent craftsmanship; any criticism of Apollon Audio should, first and foremost, be directed at the product itself.

Why?

Part of any product is the manufacturer.

I really can’t see how inefficient supply schedules should be immune from question.

Nor do I understand your sycophantic reply.

 

[Golfx]

@Marcel
I don’t think it’s particularly helpful if every Apollon customer now goes into painstaking detail about their exact timeline.

We’ve only just discussed this at length:

- Apollon is a small manufacturer and only produces each amplifier after receiving an order, which you are already aware of when placing the order
- Apollon does not give fixed delivery date commitments, but in their FAQs provides the following information on expected delivery times:
"Estimated lead time is 14 working days for stereo amplifiers/monoblocks, 21 days for multichannel amplifiers and 30 working days for all Premium amplifiers. Please note that weekends and public holidays do not count as working days."

I have no idea what sort of Apollon amplifier you ordered, but even for a stereo amp/monoblock ordered on Sunday 12 April, the estimated 14-working-day lead time would not have been exceeded until 5 May.

I have absolutely no connection with Apollon Audio and am ‘merely’ a customer myself, but, particularly in this age of Amazon and minute-by-minute tracking, we should show some appreciation for excellent craftsmanship; any criticism of Apollon Audio should, first and foremost, be directed at the product itself.

Geez have you even read this forum thread? Scolding customers for apollon failures to even remotely communicate timelines is just silly. It could be easily fixed but apollon chooses to ignore this basic need to ease a concern they are being ignored or maybe duped. This entire thread would not exist if apollon would just Step up and offer accurate communication.

 

[JensA]

Why?

Part of any product is the manufacturer.

I really can’t see how inefficient supply schedules should be immune from question.

Nor do I understand your sycophantic reply.

Of course, legitimate criticism can and should be voiced.

But here’s the thing: a manufacturer provides ‘expected’ lead times, which are by no means a guarantee. So what’s the point of listing five dates that are still BEFORE the expected lead time? That adds no value.

And to be honest, it’s not particularly important to me whether an ‘expected lead time’ is exceeded or fallen short of by a week for a product with a lifespan of many years. We’re not talking about perishable food or fruit here.

My response is by no means sycophantic: I am a customer myself and have already stated in this thread that there is ‘room for improvement’ in Apollon’s communication style

 

[JensA]

Geez have you even read this forum thread? Scolding customers for apollon failures to even remotely communicate timelines is just silly. It could be easily fixed but apollon chooses to ignore this basic need to ease a concern they are being ignored or maybe duped. This entire thread would not exist if apollon would just Step up and offer accurate communication.

Ofcourse I did!
I don't you if you have read this forum thread. In case you have you will have noticed that I clearly see room for improvement in Apollon’s communication policy and that I’ve said so here in this particlar thread!

 

[Golfx]

Ofcourse I did!
I don't you if you have read this forum thread. In case you have you will have noticed that I clearly see room for improvement in Apollon’s communication policy and that I’ve said so here in this particlar threa

Just search on my posts.

 

[Apollon Audio]

Geez have you even read this forum thread? Scolding customers for apollon failures to even remotely communicate timelines is just silly. It could be easily fixed but apollon chooses to ignore this basic need to ease a concern they are being ignored or maybe duped. This entire thread would not exist if apollon would just Step up and offer accurate communication.

 

[Golfx]

View attachment 532415View attachment 532416

Yeah if you read above posts of mine you will see tibor quoted as saying the chat people have no knowledge of premiere build timelines. It is also just another way of giving false hope and missed timelines.

 

[Apollon Audio]

Yeah if you read above posts of mine you will see tibor quoted as saying the chat people have no knowledge of premiere build timelines. It is also just another way of giving false hope and missed timelines.

As I’ve mentioned before, we have significantly upgraded and expanded our internal information system, allowing our live chat staff to maintain a far clearer and more accurate overview of each order’s production status and progress. Live chat is intended as an instant communication channel, and we have also expanded our team to improve response times and overall customer support.

That said, estimated production timelines can occasionally change due to factors such as testing procedures, parts availability, supplier delays, or production load. Any information provided through live chat is based on the latest data available at that moment and is shared with the intention of keeping customers informed as accurately as possible, not to create false expectations.

It is also important to note that our website very clearly states both the estimated production lead times and that live chat should be used for immediate assistance, while email response times may vary depending on inquiry volume. Despite this being openly communicated on the website, a very small number of customers still choose to rely exclusively on email while expecting immediate responses, and then publicly complain about delayed replies on forums afterward.