AOSHIDA SMSL C200 Review (DAC & Amp)

[Deleted member 50971]

Just let PC manufacturers license the codecs and add an eARC HDMI port, and let Topping create a 16 channel usb DAC. Problem solved with a 115 db processor that could do everything a Trinov does.

I guess I’m behind the times! I still like my audio video processor all in one Swiss Army preamp lol.

I guess you’re right, that’s really nothing different than what Trinov is doing… but I’ll be darned if I’m going to pay 17K for it.

There is definitely a couple different ways this can be approached, I’m open to it I’m just not that computer literate. Of course the market doesn’t have to listen to me haha.

 

[Trell]

Does this come with a remote for those of us who want to use just the DAC features?

Says in the review that it comes with a remote.

 

[Joe Smith]

I really like the new basic layout/design language of these latest generation SMSLs. Competition keeps pushing them along as I think the Topping units look great too. I like my Aiyima A04 and A07 amps, but they are nothing to speak of re case design - basically the same look as a decade ago with the SMSL SA-50 series.

 

[AudioSceptic]

ESS ES9038Q2M DAC
OPA1612A op-amps X 4

Yes, the filters give it away.

 

[AudioSceptic]

So has anyone figured out which DAC chip is used here?

And how they did the headphone amp? I suspect they are using one of the better op amps and a class AB buffer.

On the topic of 8-channel DACs, I think the Topping offering is rather overpriced. Adding more channels should not be that expensive.

Depends. What proportion of the total cost is the DAC chip?

 

[PeteL]

Depends. What proportion of the total cost is the DAC chip?

In term of the BOM cost, pretty much everything beside the PCB, Power supply and enclosure should be multiplied by 8. It will also add some control circuitry.

 

[rarewolf]

Yes it's digital volume control.

My SMSL SP400 has resistor ladder analogue volume control. I'll be adding SMSL D-6 to it shortly.

What would be the advantage of a digital volume control? Based on instructions for external DAC/amps to always max the PCM source’s volume before the DAC for allowing the amplifier’s analog to control the volume was standard practice(?)

Where in the chain between input & output would you apply digital volume control that wouldn’t introduce quantatization error?

 

[Jimster480]

If rumour is true USD129, this is insane value

Better value than Topping

I also trust SMSL QA/QC more

$129 seems too low. The BOM cost on this has to be over $50 unless they "found" a stockpile of chips.
Also I would say that smsl has a worst track record versus topping. This is just because they use many contracted designs and sell everything under the sun.

For that price I would blindly buy it and immediately rule out other Topping options I've in mind, plus it would be a big step forward bringing the best performance to even more people, but I think it's unrealistic to expect that yet (unless SMSL wanted to break the market).

I doubt that it will come out at that price and more likely the 219 price at minimum that somebody else mentioned.

What is Aoshida? Another brand?

A store like Apos.

Well done Topping, what a treat to see a dac or headphone amplifier released! It's so rare of you. Sorry I meant SMSL!

Topping does not do launches every week. Smsl literally has about six times the number of products versus topping.

 

[Jimster480]

That's not the amp I mentioned. Anyway, this C200 achieves THX 888 performance

SMSL SP400 based on THX-AAA-888 (not 887)

SMSL SP400 Review (headphone amp)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the SMSL SP400 balanced THX headphone amplifier. It was kindly sent to me by one of their dealers, shenzhenaudio. It costs US $630 from them. The SP400 makes an attempt at luxury with glossy plexiglass top and digital display: As you see, there...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I don't really know. It depends on what the current level is into something like an aeon. This is where I find that most amplifiers lack which is not the THX design.

 

[Kevinfc]

Says in the review that it comes with a remote.

Missed that thanks

 

[capslock]

In term of the BOM cost, pretty much everything beside the PCB, Power supply and enclosure should be multiplied by 8. It will also add some control circuitry.

Errm, 8/2 = 4. And that's only true if you decide to use four stereo DACs. There is the ES9038PRO that is currently 4.2x more exensive at Mouser in quantities up to 1000. But there are also other incredibly good 8x DACs out there, even if they are a notch below the ES9038. AK4558 is listed again at very reasonable prices (about 1/4 of an ES9038Q2M or 1/12 of an ES9038PRO), but I cannot get an order lead time yet.

 

[solderdude]

What would be the advantage of a digital volume control?

To lower costs, it is just some code and easy to add remote control as well.
It can remain completely in the digital realm. Plenty of headroom, noise and distortion is low.
Seeing the 50mV numbers it looks like it would be no problem to add digital volume control.
There is no need for special volume control chips or relays etc... just SW as it does not have analog inputs.
It is basically a multi input USB/SPDIF(optical+electrical)/Bluetooth DAC with analog out (single ended + balanced) and also has a capable headphone out.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I think that it's a great dream, but why do a PC manufacturer would pay licence to Dolby, Dirac, etc when 99.9% of the PC buyers don't purchase PC with that in mind? As far as I know, it is already possible to purchase a Dolby Atmos and a Dirac Licence for your PC, what benefit is there for the PC manufacturer to purchase those licenses? And is this even possible to play audio encoded with these Codec through USB? Dirac I assume so, it's not a CODEC,but for those AVR specific CODEC I was not aware of that possibility.

You would have the codec on the PC so it could convert Atmos, DTS-X, Auro 3D encoded bitstream to LPCM digital information readable and processable by any programs (JRiver, Fubar, Roon, Dirac Live, Ekio, etc) on the PC and sent via USB to a high quality USB DAC like the ones from Motu, Topping and Octo.

The advantages should be obvious: Price, size, quality of the processing, flexibility, less danger of obsolesence. On obsolesence alone, ask youself how many of high end processors of years past you can find on Ebay selling for pennies on the dollar because their I/O's are obsolete, or their particular board is no longer replaceable. For me, it's very hard to justify buying a processor the size of a dorm room refrigerator for upwards of $5k knowing full well it performs not nearly as well as, say any random $40 DAC, AND knowing it will probably have all kinds of difficulties with noise, shutdowns, et al AND knowing when it breaks down in a few years it may not be repairable at any price b/c the manufacturer "no longer supports" the unit.

 

[pseudoid]

Would be great if you would take a photo with the top off, so we can make sense of the real version you measured incase the internals are silently changed in future and the measurements can’t be replicated. lately I have seen this happen often with many companies.

At one point, car magazines confronted similar problems; where the manufacturers were gladly providing the reviewers the 'cherry picked' versions of an upcoming version. In the early software days; 'vaporware' was coined for similar reasons.
I definitely prefer tests/reviews of hw/sw that are NOT 'donated' by a manufacture. I am even more weary of such donations that are prototype or pre-release variety!
But I am not a businessman...
imo, Upon the completion of such reviews, the tested equipment should be raffled-out to an ASR member posting a reply.

 

[Jbbanks]

One need to use auto-translate... that went well;

View attachment 227142


JSmith

maybee it was a joke?

 

[Deleted member 50971]

You would have the codec on the PC so it could convert Atmos, DTS-X, Auro 3D encoded bitstream to LPCM digital information readable and processable by any programs (JRiver, Fubar, Roon, Dirac Live, Ekio, etc) on the PC and sent via USB to a high quality USB DAC like the ones from Motu, Topping and Octo.

The advantages should be obvious: Price, size, quality of the processing, flexibility, less danger of obsolesence. On obsolesence alone, ask youself how many of high end processors of years past you can find on Ebay selling for pennies on the dollar because their I/O's are obsolete, or their particular board is no longer replaceable. For me, it's very hard to justify buying a processor the size of a dorm room refrigerator for upwards of $5k knowing full well it performs not nearly as well as, say any random $40 DAC, AND knowing it will probably have all kinds of difficulties with noise, shutdowns, et al AND knowing when it breaks down in a few years it may not be repairable at any price b/c the manufacturer "no longer supports" the unit.

Thanks for posting this.

Would USB 2.0 pass all the codecs or would it take 3.0?

What about room correction for 9 plus channels?

As far as convenience goes this doesn’t look very convenient compared to an AVR/AVP.

I get the obsolete part, and although I don’t have Atmos in my present AVP it is capable of front wides and height speakers.

Edit;

Dorm room refrigerator size AVR? maybe I missed this model, please post the link. Just kidding.

 

[Deleted member 50971]

For me, it's very hard to justify buying a processor the size of a dorm room refrigerator for upwards of $5k knowing full well it performs not nearly as well as, say any random $40 DAC, AND knowing it will probably have all kinds of difficulties with noise, shutdowns, et al AND knowing when it breaks down in a few years it may not be repairable at any price b/c the manufacturer "no longer supports" the unit.

But a $40 DAC doesn’t do what a AVR/AVP does either. My unit is 10 years old, never once have I had difficulty with noise, shut downs, breakdowns being non-repairable or unsupported by the manufacturer. In 10 years I have one HDMI input go bad, and that’s what people down tell you about Marantz, they just work year in and year out. Who needs 120 SINAD with room correction? Yes I would like at least 100 SINAD and that’s why am waiting to switch, but there’s much more to a processor than just a couple of measurements.

 

[Ajax]

I am still looking for a desktop DAC /headphone amp /pre, that can mute the line outs when you plug in a headphone, or with a button. Is it still unfeasible in 2022 with tens of iterations of basically the same product?

Hi Pete,

The US made Benchmark DAC 2 DX has this feature, I bought one second hand for $US700 two years ago. These are now 10 years old but still very good. Digital in only but other models have analogue input as well if needed.

Benchmark were the leaders in reasonably priced DACs prior to the Chinese. Seriously good engineering and customer service. I have a 15 year old DAC 1 HDR that hasn't missed a beat.

Benchmark DAC2 DX - Digital to Analog Audio Converter - Discontinued

The DAC2 DX has been discontinued. Overview Benchmark Performance The DAC2 DX is Benchmark's newest 2-channel D/A converter. When compared to the legendary DAC1, the DAC2 has lower noise, lower distortion, and improved accuracy. The DAC1 became a reference standard in many of the finest...

benchmarkmedia.com

They are also famous for their AHB2 amplifier.

Wonderful engineers.

 

[PeteL]

You would have the codec on the PC so it could convert Atmos, DTS-X, Auro 3D encoded bitstream to LPCM digital information readable and processable by any programs (JRiver, Fubar, Roon, Dirac Live, Ekio, etc) on the PC and sent via USB to a high quality USB DAC like the ones from Motu, Topping and Octo.

The advantages should be obvious: Price, size, quality of the processing, flexibility, less danger of obsolesence. On obsolesence alone, ask youself how many of high end processors of years past you can find on Ebay selling for pennies on the dollar because their I/O's are obsolete, or their particular board is no longer replaceable. For me, it's very hard to justify buying a processor the size of a dorm room refrigerator for upwards of $5k knowing full well it performs not nearly as well as, say any random $40 DAC, AND knowing it will probably have all kinds of difficulties with noise, shutdowns, et al AND knowing when it breaks down in a few years it may not be repairable at any price b/c the manufacturer "no longer supports" the unit.

Sounds all great, but how much are you willing to pay for a PC pre-equipped with all these licenses.

 

[shrimp_dude]

knob looks mediocre quality, everything else seems fine, so nice to see usb-c

These knobs they use on Sabaj/SMSL/etc are truly garbage. Small and hard to grab the very smooth surface. Thankfully the remote lets you skip ever touching it.