Says Michael Fremer,
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2016/03/furutech-demag-alpha-new-improved.html#more
And only £2200
Keith
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2016/03/furutech-demag-alpha-new-improved.html#more
And only £2200
Keith
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Anything but Subtle
- Thread starter Purité Audio
- Start date
We did extensive evaluation of this on WBF. Gary was kind enough to capture and post the output for us to download. To my amazement, the LP run through their earlier device was easily superior from fidelity point of view. And it could be verified objectively in my Audio software to have made a difference. Investigating further however showed that such an improvement had nothing to do with the device. That an LP's sound changed for the better on second play as opposed to first.
Sadly the above phenomena will convince anyone that this device is "working" because you run it through it and the sound improves. Wish more people would do the test we did which is simply compare one run to another run of LP.
Sadly the above phenomena will convince anyone that this device is "working" because you run it through it and the sound improves. Wish more people would do the test we did which is simply compare one run to another run of LP.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #3
I can quite believe that vinyl changes from play to play ,it is the de-magnetiser aspect that appeals, and the 'old chestnut' title, how many time have I read ' the effect was not subtle'.
Keith
Keith
The play to play variation was not subtle. The sound was more open and just flat out better. To the extent that is attributed to the de-mag, I can see how that would make a lot of believers. Their "ears" was right. The cause and effect was wrong.
TBone
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Done so, many times over, with stats.
Our thread on WBF went on for a long time and no one suggested that possibility until I thought of it. There needs to be more visibility of this factor as it invalidates many observed improvements in LP systems. Cables, amps, etc. would all be fair game to question.
In my book then, no AB test using LP is valid. Even if the person is a diehard LP person, when trying to prove an amp, cable, etc. is better, they need to perform that evaluation using digital sources that are invariant from play to play.
In my book then, no AB test using LP is valid. Even if the person is a diehard LP person, when trying to prove an amp, cable, etc. is better, they need to perform that evaluation using digital sources that are invariant from play to play.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #7
Et tu brute!
Keith
Oooh...
What about the third play?
How much better can it get?
Where does it peak?
Is it temporary? What happens an hour, a day, a week later?
Fitzcaraldo215
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Michael Fremer himself does that. He records vinyl at 96k to compare tone arms and such. He plays the digital comparisons at some of his vinyl seminars to illustrate the differences. Of course, he is still using multiple needle drops, but that does not matter to him, since "vinyl is always better than digital". Go figure.
TBone
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I appreciate Mikey's knowledge, he's been very quick and helpful when assisting me with certain provenance issues. As for his rips, funny, well over a decade ago, I very much doubt he'd consider ripping LP a viable tool ... in fact, the very thought of converting LP to digital was considered sacrilegious by most vinylheads back then, inc. me.
So, in those terms, Mikey has indeed come a long way ...
So, in those terms, Mikey has indeed come a long way ...
Very much so. Warm up of the cartridge suspension, etc, is a huge factor ... I remember a Benz cartridge in a audiophile club member's very expensive setup which drove sharp nails into my ears for the first record or so - then turned good - what's going on?! That cartridge needs an extended initial playing to stabilise, the owner casually mentioned ...
TBone
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That is but one relatively easily/adjustable reason, so many others (far more important when related to permanency) factors exist ...
I don't know why subsequent plays of LP had the effect it did. I would have thought each play gets worse, not better. Maybe there is crud in there that is removed? In our testing Gary was always starting with a fresh, unplayed LP.
TBone
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Which I can, and have, duplicated.
Remember, this is a physical medium, prone to physical attributes.
New LP have their own unique issues, not often well understood. This potentially happens with used LPs also, dependent on many MANY underlying circumstances.
What's more interesting (at least to me), depending on the type of playback gear, sometimes certain SQ issues can be reversed.
(just "words" at this point, easily ignored ...)
OP
- Thread Starter
- #18
You win, they don't even try to state what it does only that you can't quibble !
And it's more expensive.
Keith.
yep.. 3k for .... FKW
errr aliens vs predator.... or maybe the thing on the other side of the link.
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