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Anything better than Genelec?

Sebastiaan de Vries

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The dips are due to the listening position being near an anti-node, and not boosting at that frequency makes proper technical sense because of this. Have you tried moving one or two of the subs to see if that fills the dip a bit?
Given that the location of the excitation (ie the speaker) does influence the intensity of the ratio of excited modes and harmonics it may well be possible to even things up by moving one or more of the subs.

Thanks Frank. I will try to move one of the two subs (now located left and right behind each Genelec in each corner). That be an interesting experiment. Any more suggestions be very welcome.

Note, not visible on the picture, but there is a second open space behind the sofa. That technically makes me sit close to the middle, which isn't ideal indeed.
 

YSC

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Thank you! You must mean the stuff animals on the right side... :D:D

It isn't actually the room I want or wished for, but I try to make the best out of it under the limitations it imposes. I am tremendously jealous on the big basements some American houses have. then you could really go wild (and I would, if I had that opportunity).
A Hong Kong guy living in a AV room 1/4 of your size passes by crying in the corner
 

richard12511

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Dear All,

Long time reader, since I own 5x Genelec 8351B (combined with 2x SVS PC 13 Ultra subwoofers) and a Trinnov, I felt to chime in and maybe can answer some questions.

The Genelecs replaced a Magnepan MG20.7 and MG1.7 with 5x Benchmark AHB2 (bridged mode) surround set-up.

I am aware my center speaker isn't placed "ideally," and I would wish for the surround channels to be placed lower and closer to ear height. However, in my compromised rented apartment, there is a limit to what I can do. If I could live my dream, I had a fully acoustically treated dedicated surround room and follow the ITU standard.

That being said, In a fully concrete room, Thick high pole carpets and bookshelves helped tremendously reduce RT time to 0.31sec. And the Trinnov did an excellent job, flatten and corrected all channels.

The Trinnov indeed applies phase correction. Please see attached screenshot of the predicted post-correction response.

Stand alone with GLM, the 8351B is a terrific speaker, and because it does so much "right," there is little "wrong. It isn't everyone's cup of tea. My girlfriend, for one, says it is at times to "overwhelming" and not for background listening. So many details get thrown into your face, according to her. For me, this is the ultimate dream and what I have craved for a lifetime.

With a pro-audio background, I love to be able (and finally can with the Genelecs) to hear the layers of different synthesizers. For example, on multiple Quincy Jones albums, I can finally distinguish which synths are layered together for a particular sound layer. For example, a Roland MKS20 with a Roland D50 to create a new sound. I can hear mix decisions and even the slightest variation in panning.

I would swear I can even recognize the Lexicon 480L reverb as a layer separated from the vocal. They are THAT revealing.

I have read some concerns about the headroom. It is a small speaker with relatively small woofers. However, I never encountered any strain, distortion, or clipping. This is probable is because I use a steep 8th order (L/R) cross-over between mains and subs, which removes the strain from the 8351B's woofers.

The Trinnov lifts an already excellent designed speaker one level up. I have had the Trinnov corrected aggressively, as can be seen in the settings below:
• Resolution of Energy Response: 1/24 octave for IIR & FIR
• Number of IIR filters 50
• IIR filters maximum Frequency 200
• FIR filter length 300ms
• Cross-over 80Hz L/R 8th order

What happens is that every sound is placed in space, and you don't hear speakers anymore. With choirs, each singer is set in-depth, while all other instruments and vocals are placed in front. At first, I even had to get used to it and wondered if I pushed things too far, But it is delightful.

Thanks!

what stands are those?
 

Sebastiaan de Vries

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Frgirard

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Thanks Frank. I will try to move one of the two subs (now located left and right behind each Genelec in each corner). That be an interesting experiment. Any more suggestions be very welcome.

Note, not visible on the picture, but there is a second open space behind the sofa. That technically makes me sit close to the middle, which isn't ideal indeed.
The corner is a good bad decay generator.
If i have to choose between a short decay or a good amplitude, i choose the decay

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...en-with-dsp-and-multi-sub-setups.15255/page-6
 

FeddyLost

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Then we are neighbors. I live in Shenzhen
Only in places like this one can have full cinema setup from Genelec with Trinnov in small rented apartment. And most probably you have some noise level regulations so no Godzilla in full scale.
I think you can add some wooden diffusors or slotted/perforated movable acoustic panels. Natural oak or maple will fit nicely into this white room.
It might return some "physical ambience" into room and make excessive layering of soundstage more blended and "authentic".
 

Sebastiaan de Vries

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Only in places like this one can have full cinema setup from Genelec with Trinnov in small rented apartment. And most probably you have some noise level regulations so no Godzilla in full scale.
I think you can add some wooden diffusors or slotted/perforated movable acoustic panels. Natural oak or maple will fit nicely into this white room.
It might return some "physical ambience" into room and make excessive layering of soundstage more blended and "authentic".

thank you. Diffusers is an viable option. With regards to noise regulations. I can go full scale even in the late nights. The houses are so massive (thick steel reinforced concrete) that almost no sound leaks out. In 7 years I haven’t had any neighbor complaints yet...

I would wish for a bigger space, mostly for bass. However I would miss the near-field experience. Especially the 8351B’s
 

FeddyLost

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Diffusers is an viable option.
But they require proper placement and distance from LP, otherwise they will not form proper diffuse field.
Small spaces are tough for good acoustic treatment, digital correction do the miracles in such rooms.

The houses are so massive (thick steel reinforced concrete) that almost no sound leaks out
That's great. Low noise floor and a lot of options for multi-way LFE.
You can add more subwoofers for evening out SPL and RT without worries about neighbours.

would wish for a bigger space, mostly for bass
If you can make multi-sub system with digital correction, i don't see much profit in big space.
Maybe real correct proper physical RT and ITD gap for fans of big symphonic orchestra ...
But in small room you can make good pressure with low distortion much easier and cheaper.
 

Sebastiaan de Vries

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But they require proper placement and distance from LP, otherwise they will not form proper diffuse field.
Small spaces are tough for good acoustic treatment, digital correction do the miracles in such rooms.


That's great. Low noise floor and a lot of options for multi-way LFE.
You can add more subwoofers for evening out SPL and RT without worries about neighbours.


If you can make multi-sub system with digital correction, i don't see much profit in big space.
Maybe real correct proper physical RT and ITD gap for fans of big symphonic orchestra ...
But in small room you can make good pressure with low distortion much easier and cheaper.
Thanks. I am still studying the multi-sub methodology. Have read the papers from Harman and Geddes and I do believe in it. It begs for further experimentation.
 

dfuller

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I always got fancy about adam and Hedd tweeter and overall look, but then the sound although nice, the genelecs seems just better and there goes my personal choice
I know I'll get crucified here for saying this but every AMT I've ever heard has a very distinctive sound that you either love or hate. It's this overly-hyped uneven thing that I can't quite describe.
 
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thewas

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Often AMTs directivity was not well matched to the corresponding mid driver one and sometimes it was even voiced a bit too hot to make it stand out as a selling argument, if engineered well it won't really sound different to a good dome tweeter.
 

YSC

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Often AMTs directivity was not well matched to the corresponding mid driver one and sometimes it was even voiced a bit too hot to make it stand out as a selling argument, if engineered well it won't really sound different to a good dome tweeter.
I supposed so, but can anyone shine some light on well engineered examples? I always have a feel that Adam and HEDD are already the top player in AMTs
 

thewas

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khark

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I know I'll get crucified here for saying this but every AMT I've ever heard has a very distinctive sound that you either love or hate. It's this overly-hyped uneven thing that I can't quite describe.

I agree with the above 100%. I'd say it's mandatory to listen in person first if someone is interested in speakers with AMT tweeters to avoid any surprises.
 
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