Anyone watching Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power ?

[Deleted member 19122]

I won't watch it simply because the contract for the source material that Amazon signed just hamstrings the whole thing.And no, whomever scripted this is no Tolkien by a loooooong shot! Plus if you haven't got a peek at all the diversity and inclusion mandates on almost all recent entertainment productions you have no idea of the ridiculous quotas and narrative constrictions that they aim to put in place.I'll post a few from Amazon productions.But please do read the entire webpage.

https://dei.amazonstudios.com/inclusion-policy/

This right here is what your entertainment is becoming...
"We recognize that ensuring equity in the future requires correcting inequities of the past. This policy will focus on specific goals with respect to the stories we tell and the people we engage to tell them. Going forward, we’ll hold ourselves accountable by tracking data, and we plan to increase representation both on screen and behind the camera year-over-year. As our trusted creative and production partners, we ask you to join us in these efforts so we may move the industry toward a more representative and inclusive future."

"To reduce invisibility in entertainment, and where the story allows, we aim to include one character from each of the following categories for speaking roles of any size, and at minimum 50% of the total of these should be women: (1) lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, or gender non-conforming / non-binary; (2) person with a disability; and (3) three regionally underrepresented racial/ethnic/cultural groups (e.g. in the US, three of the following: Black, Latinx, Indigenous, Middle Eastern/North African, or Asian / Pacific Islander or Multi-Racial). A single character can fulfill one or more of these identities."

"Stereotyping
We discourage stories that solely depict harmful or negative stereotypes, slurs, and dehumanizing language related to identity as well as narratives that link identity factors to jobs, religious beliefs, social class, or behavior."

"Historical Depictions
Content that features out-of-date historical stereotypes, language and iconography must avoid gratuitous use of such portrayals"


This is NOT about storytelling anymore sadly,it's a forced narrative....And almost all companies are adopting this.

 

[Chrispy]

Not sure how I would rank the trilogies, they came at different times and I enjoyed going to the cinema with family to watch both.
The second movie in both series was outstanding.

Given the investment in the new series Iam hoping for more. Like a lot of things - Star Wars, Marvel etc. a lack of new ideas/presentation is combining with fickle viewer fatigue.

Like others I am also bemoaning the end of the Expanse. Tried to watch Sandman and Resident Evil, didnt get far

I definitely rank LOtR as the better trilogy, no need for the Hobbit to be a trilogy in the first place in comparison either. I don't blame them to recoup costs, it is a business. I did enjoy them, but the Hobbit was a bit out there in comparison, and the new one I'm thinking is getting there faster than I'd like. I do enjoy Sandman, just got the recent episode which is a departure somewhat (ep 11 IIRC) but interesting. Not great scifi or fantasy in any case, but Star Wars wasn't even close to good in the first place either....but highly enjoyable!

 

[VintageFlanker]

Please let’s not drag this conversation into the Woke/Not-Woke Dumpster Fire. Leave the politics at the door and talk about the show in general.

Seems like you're talking a whole different language, bro...

 

[AudioJester]

I definitely rank LOtR as the better trilogy, no need for the Hobbit to be a trilogy in the first place in comparison either. I don't blame them to recoup costs, it is a business. I did enjoy them, but the Hobbit was a bit out there in comparison, and the new one I'm thinking is getting there faster than I'd like. I do enjoy Sandman, just got the recent episode which is a departure somewhat (ep 11 IIRC) but interesting. Not great scifi or fantasy in any case, but Star Wars wasn't even close to good in the first place either....but highly enjoyable!

You are right about the Hobbit. I only watched one episode of the Sandman - so it gets better?
Will stick with the Rings of Power as teenage sons are into it.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I won't watch it simply because the contract for the source material that Amazon signed just hamstrings the whole thing.And no, whomever scripted this is no Tolkien by a loooooong shot! Plus if you haven't got a peek at all the diversity and inclusion mandates on almost all recent entertainment productions you have no idea of the ridiculous quotas and narrative constrictions that they aim to put in place.I'll post a few from Amazon productions.But please do read the entire webpage.

https://dei.amazonstudios.com/inclusion-policy/

This right here is what your entertainment is becoming...
"We recognize that ensuring equity in the future requires correcting inequities of the past. This policy will focus on specific goals with respect to the stories we tell and the people we engage to tell them. Going forward, we’ll hold ourselves accountable by tracking data, and we plan to increase representation both on screen and behind the camera year-over-year. As our trusted creative and production partners, we ask you to join us in these efforts so we may move the industry toward a more representative and inclusive future."

"To reduce invisibility in entertainment, and where the story allows, we aim to include one character from each of the following categories for speaking roles of any size, and at minimum 50% of the total of these should be women: (1) lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, or gender non-conforming / non-binary; (2) person with a disability; and (3) three regionally underrepresented racial/ethnic/cultural groups (e.g. in the US, three of the following: Black, Latinx, Indigenous, Middle Eastern/North African, or Asian / Pacific Islander or Multi-Racial). A single character can fulfill one or more of these identities."

"Stereotyping
We discourage stories that solely depict harmful or negative stereotypes, slurs, and dehumanizing language related to identity as well as narratives that link identity factors to jobs, religious beliefs, social class, or behavior."

"Historical Depictions
Content that features out-of-date historical stereotypes, language and iconography must avoid gratuitous use of such portrayals"


This is NOT about storytelling anymore sadly,it's a forced narrative....And almost all companies are adopting this.

So if one elf was a black/Asian/middle eastern mix, with gender non-conforming (let us say variable gender), in a wheelchair it would cover all the bases. As long as the gender portrayed was a woman half the time. Then again, can these people define what a woman is? Might be something of a loophole there.

I do like reducing invisibility rather than increase visibility. Indicates a style of thinking and state of mind difference. Of course that is for the US only. As this Amazon production is worldwide I wonder what the official regions are for regionally underrepresented groups? I'd think racial/ethnic/cultural groups could be a sticky wicket too depending upon who is interpreting this. Guess maybe it is in the full policy.

Reading the full policy it looks like they cannot remake Fat Albert. Body size/image issues, plus you know who did the voice and wrote the show.

 

[Chrispy]

You are right about the Hobbit. I only watched one episode of the Sandman - so it gets better?
Will stick with the Rings of Power as teenage sons are into it.

I like the overall look of the Sandman, some of the characters are strange but the acting tends to be solid as is the cinematography (IMHO). Not sure if it has a particular direction, or is just going into a variety of stories with the Sandman involved.....

 

[Chrispy]

So if one elf was a black/Asian/middle eastern mix, with gender non-conforming (let us say variable gender), in a wheelchair it would cover all the bases. As long as the gender portrayed was a woman half the time. Then again, can these people define what a woman is? Might be something of a loophole there.

I do like reducing invisibility rather than increase visibility. Indicates a style of thinking and state of mind difference. Of course that is for the US only. As this Amazon production is worldwide I wonder what the official regions are for regionally underrepresented groups? I'd think racial/ethnic/cultural groups could be a sticky wicket too depending upon who is interpreting this. Guess maybe it is in the full policy.

We haven't had actors with the proper genders for a long time in the european thing either. I don't tend to think that all the elves needed to share skin tone particularly, but think the other aspects were more important (being particularly handsome/athletic/tall etc which many of the new guys don't even come close to)

 

[Blumlein 88]

We haven't had actors with the proper genders for a long time in the european thing either. I don't tend to think that all the elves needed to share skin tone particularly, but think the other aspects were more important (being particularly handsome/athletic/tall etc which many of the new guys don't even come close to)

Surely advocating for one body type over another is some kind of bigotry. I think they may need to update a policy requiring fat ugly people get a share of roles. How are non-athletic, non-attractive people (which is most of us) supposed to feel if they never see someone like themselves in the important roles? You'd feel like you aren't important, and cannot do anything worthwhile because you just aren't like them. Them being people on screen.

 

[Chrispy]

Surely advocating for one body type over another is some kind of bigotry. I think they may need to update a policy requiring fat ugly people get a share of roles. How are non-athletic, non-attractive people (which is most of us) supposed to feel if they never see someone like themselves in the important roles? You'd feel like you aren't important, and cannot do anything worthwhile because you just aren't like them. Them being people on screen.

Exactly. They're simply actors, use your imagination....

 

[SteveJ]

It's easy enough to ignore when the show is actually good, but I find the tokenistic diversity you get in productions like this a little odd.

For example, when Lenny Henry was announced as playing a Harfoot, people defended it as true to Tolkien because he'd described them as a darker skinned variety of Hobbit. I'm not sure Tolkien imagined them as actually being black, but if you do interpret it that way, shouldn't the whole tribe be played by black/brown actors?

Instead you get one or two black characters to add diversity, while the rest of the isolated community they belong to is white. In the lore there isn't even a darker variety of Hobbits that those individuals could have migrated from.

If they wanted more lore compliant diversity, they could have made the Southern humans darker skinned too. Of course they are people who sided with Morgoth in the past, so perhaps that wouldn't be good optics...

Considering Tolkien's care and attention to detail, I think the inconsistent and nonsensical world building would annoy him, if nothing else.

 

[garbulky]

Gosh tough crowd. I give it a 10/10. I had a great time watching it. It still inspired the sense of the wonder of the lotr movies and manages to look even better doing it.Still would have liked more diversity though…

 

[Gorgonzola]

Surely advocating for one body type over another is some kind of bigotry. I think they may need to update a policy requiring fat ugly people get a share of roles. How are non-athletic, non-attractive people (which is most of us) supposed to feel if they never see someone like themselves in the important roles? You'd feel like you aren't important, and cannot do anything worthwhile because you just aren't like them. Them being people on screen.

That, of course, would be just another sop to diversity. Actually, I don't think it's much of a problem in general: watched any TV ads recently?

In case of Tolkien in general, Elves do not suffer natural afflictions such as obesity, so let's hope we don't get to see any fat Elves in RoP. Harfoots are scrapping a bare hunter-gatherer existence so none are going to be much over-weight. Didn't I see a fat Dwarf or two?