Anyone want to have their Marantz SR8015 Tested?

[amirm]

A kind audiophile has reached out to me offering to offset the shipping costs to get a Marantz SR8015 reviewed and tested by us. Does anyone who has one who is willing to have it tested?

This is a high-end offering from Marantz so sure would be good to get coverage of it using the testing we do.

 

[MZKM]

Hmm, you already tested a processor and an AVR from them. I think it can be gathered that one should save the $700 and get the Denon equivalent (X6700).

 

[peng]

Hmm, you already tested a processor and an AVR from them. I think it can be gathered that one should save the $700 and get the Denon equivalent (X6700).

That is true, but according to Audioholics.com, the SR8015 got a different version of HDAM than the SR8012. That means it now has a higher model HDAM than the AV8805 and likely the newest AV7706 as well, and it did measure much better in THD+N than the SR8012 that Gene also measured.

 

[MZKM]

That is true, but according to Audioholics.com, the SR8015 got a different version of HDAM than the SR8012. That means it now has a higher model HDAM than the AV8805 and likely the newest AV7706 as well, and it did measure much better in THD+N than the SR8012 that Gene also measured.

As far as THD @ 1kHz @ 2V, Gene measured 2nd & 3rd harmonics at around -95dBFS, Amir measured the Denon X6700H at around -110dBFS for 2nd & 3rd harmonics.

 

[bigguyca]

That is true, but according to Audioholics.com, the SR8015 got a different version of HDAM than the SR8012. That means it now has a higher model HDAM than the AV8805 and likely the newest AV7706 as well, and it did measure much better in THD+N than the SR8012 that Gene also measured.

Adjusting Audioholics Measurements to Reality

O The SR8015 hasn't been measured in ASR. Taking the measurements in Audioholics and adjusting to reality:

Audioholics appears to quote only the higher harmonic distortion, doesn't appear to include noise and uses A-weighting. Let's adjust for those items:

Audioholics Measurements: -100dB for only one harmonic :

+3dB for a not included equal harmonic - this is on a graph in Audioholics - this is just math

+2dB for not including noise - 20Hz to 20kHz - estimated

+3dB for A-weighting vs. flat in ASR - Noted in another review in Audioholics - delta is estimated - this fact was only recently made available

Let's say 92dB for SINAD (X6700H measured -100dB) until Amir provides an actual figure. Hopefully the SR8015 will measure better than this. The measurement with adjustments IMO rules out the SR8015 for preamp use.

The SR8015 has the same amplifier channels as the remainder of the Denon/Marantz units so there is no reason to purchase an SR8015 for its power amplifier channels.

 

[peng]

Adjusting Audioholics Measurements to Reality

O The SR8015 hasn't been measured in ASR. Taking the measurements in Audioholics and adjusting to reality:

Audioholics appears to quote only the higher harmonic distortion, doesn't appear to include noise and uses A-weighting. Let's adjust for those items:

Audioholics Measurements: -100dB for only one harmonic :

+3dB for a not included equal harmonic - this is on a graph in Audioholics - this is just math

+2dB for not including noise - 20Hz to 20kHz - estimated

+3dB for A-weighting vs. flat in ASR - Noted in another review in Audioholics - delta is estimated - this fact was only recently made available

Let's say 92dB for SINAD (X6700H measured -100dB) until Amir provides an actual figure. Hopefully the SR8015 will measure better than this. The measurement with adjustments IMO rules out the SR8015 for preamp use.

The SR8015 has the same amplifier channels as the remainder of the Denon/Marantz units so there is no reason to purchase an SR8015 for its power amplifier channels.

Agreed, I do want ASR to measure it, let's see if someone would be willing to send a 39 lbs $3,300 AVR to Amir even if shipping cost is covered.

 

[peng]

As far as THD @ 1kHz @ 2V, Gene measured 2nd & 3rd harmonics at around -95dBFS, Amir measured the Denon X6700H at around -110dBFS for 2nd & 3rd harmonics.

I don't expect it to measured as good as the Denon because the HDAM is still there, just a better version but I do expect it to measure better than the AV7706 and SR7015 that have the same HDAMs as the AV7705 and AV8802. To match Denon's pre out SINAD, my educated guess is, Marantz would have to quietly skip the HDAM in a SR8015A and lower the price by $200 to shut people up. They did do that with the slimline series.

 

[oupee]

If the measurement takes place, it will be interesting. A lot of people already have it and no one complains about the sound, on the contrary, everyone claims that it has a fantastic sound even in stereo, so do I. Should the measurement turn out badly, all owners of the SR8015 will change their view of the measurement, and those who bow to the measurement results but do not have personal experience with sound will still just bow to the measurement.
In other words: virgin from the Internet knows what a perfect sexy female looks like, but she never knew any and never cooked for him...
Nevertheless, I wonder how the measurement will turn out here

i am using google translator

 

[peng]

If the measurement takes place, it will be interesting. A lot of people already have it and no one complains about the sound, on the contrary, everyone claims that it has a fantastic sound even in stereo, so do I.


i am using google translator

Of course you are right about this, if everyone claims it sounds fantastic then if the measurements turn out "badly" then it would mean nothing is bad enough to result in audible distortion and noise (SINAD). I have had two (still have one) Marantz AV preamp processors (also several amps) already and I have never found any of them not sounding as good as my Denon and separates.

I assume here on ASR, people want to see SOTA SINAD, aside from flat FR, low IMD etc., but for AVRs and AVPs, we can't expect D or M's to do better than 100 dB or even 95 dB for the M's. Regardless it would be nice to see them do better than at least 90 dB, that's not a lot to ask. As to what people hear and consider it's sound (I mean through speakers obviously) fantastic, very good, warm, sweet, bright etc., that's their own subjective impressions that would vary depending on the individual's listening environment and other factors. Bench measurements are objective, listening tests are, what Dr. Toole called "subjective measurements" that is proven unreliable unless done in truly apples to apples comparisons and "blind".

Should the measurement turn out badly, all owners of the SR8015 will change their view of the measurement, and those who bow to the measurement results but do not have personal experience with sound will still just bow to the measurement.
In other words: virgin from the Internet knows what a perfect sexy female looks like, but she never knew any and never cooked for him...
Nevertheless, I wonder how the measurement will turn out here

Excellent point!! It sounds funny but may be true for some people. So for those who believe in Marantz's marketing talks about their HDAMs, warm sound, tuned by sound master etc., it may be best for them to ignore ASR's measurements. What you don't know/see won't hurt right?

 

[Urgo]

I have an 8015 and I am happy with its sound, but I trust the measurements more than my ears, and if these are not satisfactory for the next one I will act accordingly.
I made the purchase of the 8015, after buying one of the Denon 6700 frogs, and in which I totally lost confidence after the response of the brand, despite my long history with Denon of many years without problems.

Simply, Gene's measurements came out at Audioholics and I jumped in because I couldn't wait any longer, I had been waiting for many months.

I would send my 8015 but I live too far.

 

[bigguyca]

I don't expect it to measured as good as the Denon because the HDAM is still there, just a better version but I do expect it to measure better than the AV7706 and SR7015 that have the same HDAMs as the AV7705 and AV8802. To match Denon's pre out SINAD, my educated guess is, Marantz would have to quietly skip the HDAM in a SR8015A and lower the price by $200 to shut people up. They did do that with the slimline series.

One minor change, each 1M ohm resistor in the HDAM circuits has been changed to 100k ohm. The effect is to lower the impedance of the circuit that includes that resistor and a low value capacitor at lower frequencies since the two are in parallel.

The impedance of the two component circuit, which is connected from the signal circuit to ground, will now change less from lower to higher frequencies. From 20Hz to 20kHz the impedance change was 27.9X, now the change is 3.8X. That circuit likely provides compensation for the overall buffer circuit.

 

[peng]

One minor change, each 1M ohm resistor in the HDAM circuits has been changed to 100k ohm. The effect is to lower the impedance of the circuit that includes that resistor and a low value capacitor at lower frequencies since the two are in parallel.

The impedance of the two component circuit, which is connected from the signal circuit to ground, will now change less from lower to higher frequencies. From 20Hz to 20kHz the impedance change was 27.9X, now the change is 3.8X. That circuit likely provides compensation for the overall buffer circuit.

Thank you for the information, you are amazingly resourceful! The service manual was not available for purchase last time I check.
The thing that bothers me is simple logic. The HDAM is obviously a buffer that is not meant to double duty as a sonic equalizer. If it is, then it would be a fixed one, not adjustable. So it is unlikely to be responsible for injecting 2nd harmonics or something like that to project a "warm" sound. FR, FFT etc., did not show any sign either though one may argue all of the FFTs we have seen so far were from a 1 kHz stimulus test signal so those may not have revealed the magical harmonics. Also, the chance for such discrete buffer stage to have SINAD better than the upstream DAC and/or Volume control ICs would be 0 or virtually 0. Even if it has SINAD of 120 dB, the best it can do it not degrade the signal at the input to the HDAM at all, but cannot improve it. Back to logic, then if the HDAM is so important regardless for the sonic signature according to Marantz, why are they not used in the Slimline and their two channel receivers? So I won't say Marantz marketing lied about the effects of those HDAMs on the unique warm/musical sound signature of their AVRs, but I will say those who read the material or told about it via magazine review and/or internet hearsay and then heard the advertised/reported sound signature likely heard it because of the influence/expectation bias.

I do remember reading a block diagram, or schematic of one of their PM integrated amp, forgot the model#, and noticed that the HDAMs were upstream of the DAC and Vol control so my argument/logic obviously won't apply in those cases, unless I remember wrong.

 

[SynthesisCinema]

Hmm, you already tested a processor and an AVR from them. I think it can be gathered that one should save the $700 and get the Denon equivalent (X6700).

Keep in mind that these two models has also few other differences which one might want to pay for.


Marantz SR8012 Advantages over the Denon AVR-X6500H:

• HDAM SA2 current feedback topology between preamp and power amp
• 22,000uF, 81V capacitors x 2 vs 15,000uF, 73V capacitors (X-6500H)
• Torodial 835VA transformer vs 750VA E-Core (X-6500H)
• Separated symmetric construction vs single in-line (X6500H)
• Copper plated chassis
• More rigid top cover
• Teflon tape on oscillator circuit for better damping
  
  
  

 

[Macfox]

To be fair, it's priced between the 6700 and 8500 and is marketed as the flagship model. The components seem to reflect this. At least you're getting something for your money. Now just hope it reflects in the measurements. Loved my old SR8001 and it's nice to see a Marantz model not just being a 95% copy of a Denon, just with parts added that diminish performance (HDAM).

 

[rtywonia]

what does it entail to have your unit tested if i want to offer mine up?

 

[Itisawesome]

Don’t fall into the trap that measurements are going to tell you whether one amp is better than another. At the end of the day what do you buy the amp for? Listening! Do your ears and brain’s interpretation of sound have the same listening meaning as mine and someone else’s? No. Only way to know if you admire the sound of one amp over another is to listen to them. I recently auditioned my old marantz sr-8300 which is about 2002 vintage against a brand new Hegel h190 driving a pair of magnepan 1.7i speakers. For me marantz won hands down because I enjoyed the detail and clarity and greater presence of the higher frequencies that the Hegel couldn’t offer. The sales person was surprised and my marantz amp could almost drive the magnepans as well as the more powerful Hegel. Vocals were more forward and pronounced in the Hegel but overall I preferred the marantz sound. I hope one day not too far away I buy the pm-10s1.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Don’t fall into the trap that measurements are going to tell you whether one amp is better than another. At the end of the day what do you buy the amp for? Listening! Do your ears and brain’s interpretation of sound have the same listening meaning as mine and someone else’s? No. Only way to know if you admire the sound of one amp over another is to listen to them. I recently auditioned my old marantz sr-8300 which is about 2002 vintage against a brand new Hegel h190 driving a pair of magnepan 1.7i speakers. For me marantz won hands down because I enjoyed the detail and clarity and greater presence of the higher frequencies that the Hegel couldn’t offer. The sales person was surprised and my marantz amp could almost drive the magnepans as well as the more powerful Hegel. Vocals were more forward and pronounced in the Hegel but overall I preferred the marantz sound. I hope one day not too far away I buy the pm-10s1.

I think you are in the wrong forum. Measurements tell you much. Usually more than uncontrolled lackadaisical listening will.

However, as a new member welcome. Stick around and there is much to learn.

 

[Itisawesome]

I think you are in the wrong forum. Measurements tell you much. Usually more than uncontrolled lackadaisical listening will.

However, as a new member welcome. Stick around and there is much to learn.

Science has still not figured out everything that is important to measure. So the measurements that are typically done only tell a portion of what affects how one amp sounds vs another. At the end of the day listening is the true and accurate experience. It is why the final decision by manufacturers such as Marantz is done based on listening and not merely empirical measurements...sound engineers.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Science has still not figured out everything that is important to measure. So the measurements that are typically done only tell a portion of what affects how one amp sounds vs another. At the end of the day listening is the true and accurate experience. It is why the final decision by manufacturers such as Marantz is done based on listening and not merely empirical measurements...sound engineers.

Do you really think an outfit like Marantz has people sitting around and listening for design decisions? Take a look at their history especially with HDAM. They've had the same mediocre specs for like 15 years while peddling different versions of the expert Japanese sensei listeners. It is marketing spiel.

Meanwhile, if measurements pass certain thresholds we know the results are fully transparent. End of story.

 

[peng]

Science has still not figured out everything that is important to measure. So the measurements that are typically done only tell a portion of what affects how one amp sounds vs another. At the end of the day listening is the true and accurate experience. It is why the final decision by manufacturers such as Marantz is done based on listening and not merely empirical measurements...sound engineers.

You may be right, but if so, we would all be choosing our audio electronic components at random, unless we can take a number of each home to use our ears to measure. Also, people have the science to land on Mars now, so logically speaking there should be anything that our electrical/electronic engineers and other specialist in the related field that haven't figure out what's important to measure yet. Just my two cents, as I said, again, you may be right.. Regardless, I am an EE, and I love this forum, hope you do too.