• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). There are daily reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Anyone using DSP/PEQ with vintage receivers?

ripmixburn

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
190
Likes
93
Location
Toronto, Canada
Learning that some late 70s amplifiers are still competitive with modern amplifiers, I'm tempted to get one to simplify my ground floor audio setup.

I have an open concept floor with 3 pairs of speakers. Using an old "monster" like the Yamaha CR-2020 would offers the flexibility of A, B, B, A+B or A+C speaker selection.

The only thing I'm struggling with is how to best integrate a PEQ or DSP.

There are often PRE OUT/MAIN IN connection, so I could use a MiniDSP Flex as a preamp, but that would mean I would lose DSP on inputs like PHONO or FM. Though I would gain a remote!

There is a Dolby FM Adapter OUT/IN but I don't know what that does. Other receivers will have a PROCESS OUT/IN. I assume this is the best route.

But what is a good solution to add ADC/DAC PEQ/DSP to an old receiver or integrated amp?

Would love to hear any experiences.
 

fordiebianco

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 11, 2020
Messages
282
Likes
538
Location
Essex, UK
I have a variety of old receivers around the house (all late sixties/mid seventies). I have a Raspberry Pi with a Hifiberry DAC hat for each of them feeding into the AUX rca/din input. Works very well for streaming various sources. If you use Moode as OS, you can even use its build in DSP.
 
Last edited:
OP
ripmixburn

ripmixburn

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
190
Likes
93
Location
Toronto, Canada
I have a variety of old receivers around the house (all late sixties/mid seventies). I have a Raspberry Pi with a Hifiberry DAC hat for each of them feeding into the AUX rca/din input. Works very well for streaming various sources. If you use Moode as OS, you can even use its build in DSP.
Ok, so that's a great way to get at least one source that is room corrected. Thanks!
 

mglobe

Active Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Messages
214
Likes
288
Not a direct answer to your question, but my phono signal comes out of an Apt Holman preamp, in to a MiniDSP Flex, and then out to a pair of monoblocks. If you have a way to go pre-out, and then back in to the amplifier section (a tape loop, or processor loop should work) you are good to go.
 
OP
ripmixburn

ripmixburn

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
190
Likes
93
Location
Toronto, Canada
These miniDSP models support the remote. https://www.minidsp.com/products/accessories/ir-remote

I do have a subwoofer, but if I'm understanding it correctly, I can't get both subwoofer integration and remote control.

If I use a miniDSP as the preamp, I can't use the phono stage or FM tuner on any receiver.

If I use the processor loop, which I assume is line level, I don't get remote control for volume…

Or am I not grokking this?
 

Willem

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
3,100
Likes
4,618
If the receiver has a pre out/main in, you could insert something like the miniDSP 2x4HD (or more expensive altermatives) to give you eq on all sources. If you only want to equalize some subwoofers, with e.g. MSO, you can do that too. Vintage amplifiers would also have tape out/in connections that can serve the same purpose (but watch signal levels).
 
OP
ripmixburn

ripmixburn

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
190
Likes
93
Location
Toronto, Canada
If the receiver has a pre out/main in, you could insert something like the miniDSP 2x4HD (or more expensive altermatives) to give you eq on all sources. If you only want to equalize some subwoofers, with e.g. MSO, you can do that too. Vintage amplifiers would also have tape out/in connections that can serve the same purpose (but watch signal levels).
Should I be able to control the volume of the speakers and subwoofer simultaneously using the remote? If so, that would be ideal.
 

Willem

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
3,100
Likes
4,618
Nothing changes compared to not inserting the 2x4HD. You set the subwoofer volume once and for all on the subwoofer itself as you would without the 2x4HD, and you control the system volume on the receiver.
If this is ultimately about getting a remote, I guess you could use the 2x4HD remote as a volume control to turn down the volume.
 
Last edited:

Hipper

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
753
Likes
610
Location
Herts., England
You would need a DSP/EQ with an ADC and DAC.

Using the Yamaha CR-2020 for example, I think then you could use the Tape Rec out to the ADC of a DSP/EQ, then Tape In from the DAC of the DSP/EQ, making appropriate selections on the Rec Out and Input selectors on the front of your receiver.

I use a Behringer DEQ2496 which has an ADC and DAC and PEQ and GEQ as well as other stuff. On the input/output menu you can select if you want to use the ADC/DAC or just keep it digital.

That Yamaha also has tone controls. They might do a reasonable job although not as accurate as full EQ.

Edit: I now see Willem made a similar point about using the Tape In/Tape Out connections.
 

MarcosCh

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
1,692
Likes
1,339
Lets see if i understood well. You have 3 zones, subwoofers and analog sources, right?
I think you have different options to apply eq to the 3 zones, i can think of these, but for sure there are more:
1- as discussed before: a minidsp flex (that has one analog input) as a preamp outputting two channels to a 6 channel vintage receiver that allows you to select zone A, B or C and the other two channels of the flex for one or two subs. As the minidsp can save different configurations, you can use that to switch from one eq to another when you switch from zones A B and C in the receiver. What i don't see is how this is going to work if you select A+B, you will get the same eq for both A and B.
2- the new minidsp flex 8 -> 3 different stereo power amps (one for each zone) or a 6 channel power amp. The remaining 2 channels of the flex 8 to one or two subs. Again you can use the configurations saved in the flex 8 to send you eq signal to one or the other zone. Here you could also have more than one zone working simultaneously with their own eq. With the flex 8 you loose the analog input, you would need an ADC.
3- each zone a stereo dac/amp and its own streamer (i.e. 3 cheap raspberry pi with DSP capabilities or 3 wiim mini). You stream independently to each zone as needed. Each streamer has its own dsp so all good. To listen to your analog sources, you could also stream that with LMS to the zone you wish. What i don't know here is how you could make the subs work with more than one zone....
4-
5-
... (for sure there are other possibilities)
Hope it helps.
 

mglobe

Active Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Messages
214
Likes
288
These miniDSP models support the remote. https://www.minidsp.com/products/accessories/ir-remote

I do have a subwoofer, but if I'm understanding it correctly, I can't get both subwoofer integration and remote control.

If I use a miniDSP as the preamp, I can't use the phono stage or FM tuner on any receiver.

If I use the processor loop, which I assume is line level, I don't get remote control for volume…

Or am I not grokking this?
So you can tie the sub(s) and main speakers together in the miniDSP Flex, set up a crossover, and then correct them either with Dirac or PEQ in the Flex. Volume goes up and down in both the mains and sub(s) with the volume control on the Flex remote. However, I don't think there is a way to do room correction (Dirac or PEQ) for multiple zones with the Flex. As mentioned by MarcosCh, it sounds like the flex 8 may be able to help on that.
 
OP
ripmixburn

ripmixburn

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
190
Likes
93
Location
Toronto, Canada
So you can tie the sub(s) and main speakers together in the miniDSP Flex, set up a crossover, and then correct them either with Dirac or PEQ in the Flex. Volume goes up and down in both the mains and sub(s) with the volume control on the Flex remote. However, I don't think there is a way to do room correction (Dirac or PEQ) for multiple zones with the Flex. As mentioned by MarcosCh, it sounds like the flex 8 may be able to help on that.
I've never used DIRAC or a MiniDSP device so I'm not sure how easy it is to swap EQ.

I currently use a (Paradigm) PW Pink which uses Anthem ARC Genesis, so swapping profiles via computer is relatively easy. But the PW Link only correct full range, no subwoofer management. Definitely better than nothing.
 

mglobe

Active Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Messages
214
Likes
288
I've never used DIRAC or a MiniDSP device so I'm not sure how easy it is to swap EQ.

I currently use a (Paradigm) PW Pink which uses Anthem ARC Genesis, so swapping profiles via computer is relatively easy. But the PW Link only correct full range, no subwoofer management. Definitely better than nothing.
So it's easy to change profiles with the Flex with a click of the remote. I'm not clear on the topology of your system though. Flex can't run two different profiles at the same time.
 
OP
ripmixburn

ripmixburn

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
190
Likes
93
Location
Toronto, Canada
So it's easy to change profiles with the Flex with a click of the remote. I'm not clear on the topology of your system though. Flex can't run two different profiles at the same time.
Currently, with the PW Link, I just disable the room EQ when I am running more than my one pair of speakers. I only have two profiles that I toggle between: living room area, and work area. For the kitchen I haven't even bothered.

Still trying to formulate the ideal topology in my mind… Let's stick with Bluetooth to keep things simple. I would stream bluetooth to the miniDSP which would provide four analog outputs… Two could go to two subwoofers, and two would go into the "main in" on a vintage receiver.

My options for room correction/bass management are only full DIRAC license? ($200?)

This would effectively eliminate the volume control on the vintage receiver, and allow me to use the miniDSP remote control.

If I wanted to use the tuner or phono pre-amp of the vintage receiver, I would simply send the TAPE OUT into the analog input of the miniDSP.

So if I were to get a great vintage receiver (Yamaha?) with a decent built-in phono preamp, a miniDSP would allow me to get the best of all worlds?
 

mglobe

Active Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Messages
214
Likes
288
Currently, with the PW Link, I just disable the room EQ when I am running more than my one pair of speakers. I only have two profiles that I toggle between: living room area, and work area. For the kitchen I haven't even bothered.

Still trying to formulate the ideal topology in my mind… Let's stick with Bluetooth to keep things simple. I would stream bluetooth to the miniDSP which would provide four analog outputs… Two could go to two subwoofers, and two would go into the "main in" on a vintage receiver.

My options for room correction/bass management are only full DIRAC license? ($200?)

This would effectively eliminate the volume control on the vintage receiver, and allow me to use the miniDSP remote control.

If I wanted to use the tuner or phono pre-amp of the vintage receiver, I would simply send the TAPE OUT into the analog input of the miniDSP.

So if I were to get a great vintage receiver (Yamaha?) with a decent built-in phono preamp, a miniDSP would allow me to get the best of all worlds
The Flex can do PEQ and also crossover to the subs without the Dirac license. You can direct your left to one pair of outputs, and right to the other. Then do a high-pass to each of your mains, and a low-pass to each of your subs, and either do room correction with PEQ or with Dirac. I chose to buy Dirac, and for me it's the easy button.

I have my turntable (yes I have one) going through a pre and in to the Flex analog input. I run a Roon server, which is connected to the Flex via USB. Both inputs have use the Dirac corrections before leaving the Flex and going to the power amps and active subs.

You can have up to four PEQ or Dirac profiles, so in theory you could room correct four rooms I think. Another option would be to set up a roon server and room correct your other rooms with Roon. I have not used Roon for PEQ yet, so I can't offer any help on that part of the equation.
 
OP
ripmixburn

ripmixburn

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
190
Likes
93
Location
Toronto, Canada
The Flex can do PEQ and also crossover to the subs without the Dirac license. You can direct your left to one pair of outputs, and right to the other. Then do a high-pass to each of your mains, and a low-pass to each of your subs, and either do room correction with PEQ or with Dirac. I chose to buy Dirac, and for me it's the easy button.

I have my turntable (yes I have one) going through a pre and in to the Flex analog input. I run a Roon server, which is connected to the Flex via USB. Both inputs have use the Dirac corrections before leaving the Flex and going to the power amps and active subs.

You can have up to four PEQ or Dirac profiles, so in theory you could room correct four rooms I think. Another option would be to set up a roon server and room correct your other rooms with Roon. I have not used Roon for PEQ yet, so I can't offer any help on that part of the equation.
Wow, so it sounds like we would have the same setup except I'm assuming you're not trying to throw a vintage receiver (and some of its inputs) into the mix.

So great to know it can hold 4 profiles, that would cover all my use cases.

I also don't run Roon yet. I love Logitech Media Server and my old Squeezebox Touch any guest can use without my iOS/Android password.

Thanks!
 
OP
ripmixburn

ripmixburn

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
190
Likes
93
Location
Toronto, Canada
I currently have this setup going (drawn with a demo version of ConceptDraw). Actually my setup is more complicated because I am using a Paradigm PW with a digital volume control I do not trust with amplifier main input. I would diagram how much more complicated it is (add a DAC and headphone amp with pre out) but would get repetitive strain injury.
Audio Connection Vintage Receiver Modernize.png
 
Top Bottom