Anyone tested Chinese ripoffs of Krell, Accuphase, etc.?

[NTomokawa]

Here's a Krell ripoff:

And here's an Accuphase ripoff:

Safety issues aside, I'm curious whether anybody here 1) owns something like these, and 2) have measured them.

 

[ta240]

It would be interesting to see measurements because things like trace routing on the PCB and component positions can have an affect on the performance. Just getting the basic look and schematic down may or may not get the same output. And that doesn't even take into account the possibility of counterfeit or factory seconds components.

 

[NTomokawa]

possibility of counterfeit or factory seconds components

That's a good point - who knows whether the "Rubycon" or "ELNA" capacitors are genuine?

 

[ta240]

That's a good point - who knows whether the "Rubycon" or "ELNA" capacitors are genuine?

Or if they are like the Bosch drill I bought for half the usual price, in a plastic bag, where the chuck wobbles; it was likely supposed to be destroyed but ended up for sale with a hundred others.

 

[anmpr1]

Here's a Krell ripoff...

I'm more concerned with the latest Krell ripoff of Krell. According to Atkinson when he tried to precondition their latest integrated amp:

I usually precondition amplifiers by running them at one- third power into 8 ohms for an hour. The Krell almost made it, turning itself off after 55 minutes, with the front-panel display showing the message "Over temperature left channel"...

Then he tries to cover for them writing: This is a tough test for an amplifier with a class-AB output stage...

Tough? Really? Back in the day, any Japanese transistor amp from Pioneer, Sansui, Kenwood, Marantz, etc. could pass the FTC precondition. But now the latest and greatest Krell shuts down? And to think what Krell used to be! Risible.

 

[NTomokawa]

one- third power into 8 ohms for an hour

How much power was that?

I don't know how much Behringer inflates their numbers, but apparently they have an amplifier that can pump 1.6 kilowatts into 8 ohms.

 

[Wombat]

How much power was that?

I don't know how much Behringer inflates their numbers, but apparently they have an amplifier that can pump 1.6 kilowatts into 8 ohms.

That link states 'peak' watts in the first sentence but not in the specs table or elsewhere where output power is stated. Instantaneous or continuous?

 

[Mnyb]

That krell rip-off does not seem to have the heatsinkining you would expect ?

 

[anmpr1]

How much power was that?

@ 150 w/ch that would be about 50 watts into 8 ohms, continuous. So it shut down at 50 watts. For seven thousand dollars. PS: DAC option an additional thousand, if anyone is interested. LOL

 

[anmpr1]

That krell rip-off does not seem to have the heatsinkining you would expect ?

Krells used to be monsters. Built solid. At least that was supposed to be the case. The current year shows them to be just another overly expensive name. Nothing special. I guess the name still holds some high-end street cred. I guess.

 

[SIY]

That krell rip-off does not seem to have the heatsinkining you would expect ?

If someone is happy to steal a trademark, why would you expect them to be honest to their customers?

 

[NTomokawa]

That krell rip-off does not seem to have the heatsinkining you would expect ?

That Krell ripoff in question is a "clone" of the Krell KSA-50, seen here:

This thing appears to have many variants, some of which have a fan on top of the heatsink:

 

[NTomokawa]

50 watts into 8 ohms, continuous

Ah ha ha ha ha! I bet my retired 45wpc vintage Luxman wouldn't shut down at full power!

Risible indeed.

 

[restorer-john]

I wouldn't touch a rip-off product. Not buy one, repair one or even bother testing one. (I might strip one for parts-maybe).

And anyone buying one is doing a gross disservice to the original companies and their engineers.

The one that really irks me are these:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/QUAD405...275457?hash=item3b0f63e541:g:97QAAOSwrU1bEJq-

"Classic can not go beyond, CLONE let memories reborn!"

How dare they put a Quad badge on it?

Either buy an original and refurbish it or don't buy one at all. Would you wear a fake Rolex?

 

[NTomokawa]

How dare they put a Quad badge on it?

Because they come from China and copyright laws over there are... Iffy at best?

 

[anmpr1]

And anyone buying one is doing a gross disservice to the original companies and their engineers.

Would you wear a fake Rolex?

I wonder if the 405 facsimile is merely cosmetic, or if the circuit is the old 'current dump' topology?

The issue of ripping off another's design has been low-level, but on-going in audio as long as I can remember. Usually in the 'boutique' genre. Off the top of my head I recall: the Trevor Lees preamp kit which was said to be a knock-off of a Paragon preamplifier; the Marcof MC step up claimed to be an unauthorized version of Marshall Leach's DIY design published in Audio; Frank van Alstine accused an amp manufacturer of cloning one of his designs (I think it was B&K, but I don't remember exactly); Sao Win arguing that Oracle stole his design after visiting his facility. I'm sure there are other instances of this sort of thing.

PS: When I was in China I did buy a fake Rolex. As a joke gift for someone. On the street I was offered a box of Windows XP. Five dollars. The packaging looked totally real, to include the hologram seal. Maybe it was. Now, on a good day Windows might be worth five dollars. But it was raining, so I passed on that.

 

[JJB70]

I can't see the point of knock offs. To me buying Accuphase is like buying a fine watch, totally unnecessary but nice if you take pleasure from the craftsmanship and quality and value the heritage of a manufacturer. If it is about SQ you can get audibly excellent SQ for peanuts. Fake knockoffs can cost more than an honest budget alternative, you are not buying into the heritage and supporting a great name and you are supporting intellectual theft. And you have no idea what you are buying.

 

[anmpr1]

I can't see the point of knock offs. To me buying Accuphase is like buying a fine watch, totally unnecessary but nice if you take pleasure from the craftsmanship and quality and value the heritage of a manufacturer.g.

I agree with that sentiment. For instance, you can buy direct from China (Aliexpress) a phono board (and an actual finished preamp) said to be 'inspired by' the Marantz 7. I don't know why anyone would necessarily want a Marantz 7 clone, although I can understand why someone might want an original Marantz 7, with its design heritage (Sid Smith, Saul Marantz).

The 'inspired by' seems to me to be pretty honest. I have no problem with that as long as we are talking public domain. From the seller:

This is assembled board and tested well, not include four tubes, Inspired by Marantz 7 Phono Riaa circuit, Professional DIY products for Audiophile, High-quality PCB and HiFi components.