Anyone Review Topping D90III Discrete / D90 III Sabre yet ?

[RandomEar]

My baby D90III is back from China. Topping fixed it in minutes. After 2 weeks using SMSL D6s, I came back with a very detailed sound of D90 III.
We cannot say all DACs sound the same.

We don't say that around here. However, we say that all competent DACs are transparent and that transparent DACs using the same settings (level-matched, comparable filters and EQ off) will be audibly indistinguishable. Which is true.

I measured with Rew and Umik-1 and applied the same PEQ, it is clearly different even though SMSL D6s has crazy SINAD!

Please feel free to share your measurements and also document which exact settings were active on the DACs and what the measurement setup looked like.

From my experience, measuring DACs or amps using a microphone in a room is a fruitless endeavour and will not deliver reliable results outside of anechoic chambers. An even then, a measurement using a simple ADC connected to the DAC outputs would be an order of magnitude more precise, so I hope that you did it this way.

 

[Le_Passager]

Hi everyone,

I recently got the new Topping D90 III Discrete and noticed an annoying issue. When the DAC is in standby mode, its internal power supply emits a noticeable high-pitched noise / coil whine.

In total silence, it’s quite audible from a few feet away. What’s interesting is that the pitch isn’t perfectly steady — it sounds a bit modulated or "unstable," like the power supply is struggling with the micro-currents in standby. When the device is fully turned on and playing music, the noise disappears (or is completely masked).

I previously had another unit of the same model, and it also had a standby whistle, but that one was a flat, single-frequency tone. This new replacement unit sounds even more modulated and annoying.

I wanted to ask other D90 III Discrete owners here:

1. Do you experience any high-pitched transformer buzz or coil whine when your DAC is in standby?
2. If you do, have you found any way to mitigate it (besides completely cutting the AC power)?

I really love the sound of this DAC, but this standby noise in a quiet room is driving me crazy. Appreciate any feedback or measurements if anyone has investigated this.

Thanks in advance!

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

Hi everyone,

I recently got the new Topping D90 III Discrete and noticed an annoying issue. When the DAC is in standby mode, its internal power supply emits a noticeable high-pitched noise / coil whine.

In total silence, it’s quite audible from a few feet away. What’s interesting is that the pitch isn’t perfectly steady — it sounds a bit modulated or "unstable," like the power supply is struggling with the micro-currents in standby. When the device is fully turned on and playing music, the noise disappears (or is completely masked).

I previously had another unit of the same model, and it also had a standby whistle, but that one was a flat, single-frequency tone. This new replacement unit sounds even more modulated and annoying.

I wanted to ask other D90 III Discrete owners here:

1. Do you experience any high-pitched transformer buzz or coil whine when your DAC is in standby?
2. If you do, have you found any way to mitigate it (besides completely cutting the AC power)?

I really love the sound of this DAC, but this standby noise in a quiet room is driving me crazy. Appreciate any feedback or measurements if anyone has investigated this.

Thanks in advance!

I did not have this across two D90 III Discretes or my DX9 Discrete. You may want to talk to your reseller about getting it replaced.

 

[longts]

Hi everyone,

I recently got the new Topping D90 III Discrete and noticed an annoying issue. When the DAC is in standby mode, its internal power supply emits a noticeable high-pitched noise / coil whine.

In total silence, it’s quite audible from a few feet away. What’s interesting is that the pitch isn’t perfectly steady — it sounds a bit modulated or "unstable," like the power supply is struggling with the micro-currents in standby. When the device is fully turned on and playing music, the noise disappears (or is completely masked).

I previously had another unit of the same model, and it also had a standby whistle, but that one was a flat, single-frequency tone. This new replacement unit sounds even more modulated and annoying.

I wanted to ask other D90 III Discrete owners here:

1. Do you experience any high-pitched transformer buzz or coil whine when your DAC is in standby?
2. If you do, have you found any way to mitigate it (besides completely cutting the AC power)?

I really love the sound of this DAC, but this standby noise in a quiet room is driving me crazy. Appreciate any feedback or measurements if anyone has investigated this.

Thanks in advance!

For me, NO, totally dead silent.
I think you should check and re-plug the power cable and the XLR cables.

 

[migo77]

Hi everyone,

I recently got the new Topping D90 III Discrete and noticed an annoying issue. When the DAC is in standby mode, its internal power supply emits a noticeable high-pitched noise / coil whine.

In total silence, it’s quite audible from a few feet away. What’s interesting is that the pitch isn’t perfectly steady — it sounds a bit modulated or "unstable," like the power supply is struggling with the micro-currents in standby. When the device is fully turned on and playing music, the noise disappears (or is completely masked).

I previously had another unit of the same model, and it also had a standby whistle, but that one was a flat, single-frequency tone. This new replacement unit sounds even more modulated and annoying.

I wanted to ask other D90 III Discrete owners here:

1. Do you experience any high-pitched transformer buzz or coil whine when your DAC is in standby?
2. If you do, have you found any way to mitigate it (besides completely cutting the AC power)?

I really love the sound of this DAC, but this standby noise in a quiet room is driving me crazy. Appreciate any feedback or measurements if anyone has investigated this.

Thanks in advance!

I had exactly the same problem with Topping D90 III Discrete, I've returned my unit to the dealer.

 

[RandomEar]

I did not have this across two D90 III Discretes or my DX9 Discrete. You may want to talk to your reseller about getting it replaced.

This can be a problem with the SMPS of the Topping, but it doesn't have to be. I have seen interactions like this with LED bulbs on the same circuit, so I assume other cases of SMPS with probably insufficient AC-side filtering on the same circuit can cause this, too. When I encountered this, specific LED bulbs where "whining" when more than two of them were installed in the same light. I switched out the bulb brand and it went away.

So swapping the D90 for a new unit might help, disconnecting other SMPS-powered devices on the same AC line might help and this might actually be one of those rare cases where a ferrite choke on the mains cable of the D90 might also solve it.

 

[Le_Passager]

Thanks so much to everyone who responded! Yes, I'll try changing the power cable and connecting it to a new, separate surge protector. Unfortunately, it is not possible to replace the entire product from the supplier in my case.

 

[RichB]

Thanks so much to everyone who responded! Yes, I'll try changing the power cable and connecting it to a new, separate surge protector. Unfortunately, it is not possible to replace the entire product from the supplier in my case.

If you have a UPS, you could power it off battery as another test.

- Rich

 

[migo77]

Thanks so much to everyone who responded! Yes, I'll try changing the power cable and connecting it to a new, separate surge protector. Unfortunately, it is not possible to replace the entire product from the supplier in my case.

That is unfortunate changing cables, mains phases doesn't helped in my case. Dealer tested it and acknowledged it was defect product.

 

[Le_Passager]

Hi everyone.

I am facing a critical, recurring issue with the new Topping D90 III Discrete. This is my second unit of the exact same model, and it has just experienced the identical catastrophic failure as the first one.

The setup configuration:The DAC is connected via USB to a PC (source), via XLR to a Topping A90 Discrete pre-amp, and utilizes the 12V trigger to wake up the pre-amp and power amps. Everything is powered through a high-quality AC power conditioner (power delivery is stable and clean).

How the issue occurs:I typically turn off the AC power switch on my power conditioner when the system is not in use. When I turn the AC power switch back on, the DAC receives power, but instead of booting into its normal standby state or powering on, the screen remains completely blank.

The unit becomes entirely unresponsive to the remote or the front panel button. The only sign of life is a faint high-pitched coil whine from the internal power supply. When connected to a PC via USB, the system detects the device exclusively as being in DFU (Device Firmware Update) mode.

Key points:

• This is a brand new replacement unit. The first unit failed in the exact same manner (permanently bricked into DFU mode upon AC power-on).
• I used a previous generation Topping DAC in this exact same operational routine for a year without a single issue.
• Reflashing the firmware via the Topping DFU tool does not restore the device to operational status.

Is this a known hardware/firmware bug related to the micro-controller initialization during AC power sequencing on the D90 III Discrete? I would highly appreciate any advice, official feedback from Topping engineers, or experiences from other owners who cycle their AC power.

Thank you.

P.s. I can't believe it, they wrote above that this coil whine sound in standby mode is a sign of a faulty device, but it turns out that this is already the second faulty device in a row!

UPD: After successfull reflashing a firmware to V0.57 i see "MCU no fw". Then "upgrading...". And then - totally blank display and coil whine sound.

UPD_2: After flashing to v0.39, the device consistently shows "MCU no fw." (without next "upgrading...". Well, that's a change, I'm hoping it's a software bug. I've contacted Topping's service center and hope for a response.

UPD_3: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/topping-d90se-updates-to-d90-iii-discrete.974127/post-19102750
A similar problem was described by a Head-Fi.org user, though unfortunately, the post went unanswered. Well, if the device really has such issues simply from being turned on and off, then this will be my last Topping device.

 

[MBO]

Hi everyone.

I am facing a critical, recurring issue with the new Topping D90 III Discrete. This is my second unit of the exact same model, and it has just experienced the identical catastrophic failure as the first one.

The setup configuration:The DAC is connected via USB to a PC (source), via XLR to a Topping A90 Discrete pre-amp, and utilizes the 12V trigger to wake up the pre-amp and power amps. Everything is powered through a high-quality AC power conditioner (power delivery is stable and clean).

How the issue occurs:I typically turn off the AC power switch on my power conditioner when the system is not in use. When I turn the AC power switch back on, the DAC receives power, but instead of booting into its normal standby state or powering on, the screen remains completely blank.

The unit becomes entirely unresponsive to the remote or the front panel button. The only sign of life is a faint high-pitched coil whine from the internal power supply. When connected to a PC via USB, the system detects the device exclusively as being in DFU (Device Firmware Update) mode.

Key points:

• This is a brand new replacement unit. The first unit failed in the exact same manner (permanently bricked into DFU mode upon AC power-on).
• I used a previous generation Topping DAC in this exact same operational routine for a year without a single issue.
• Reflashing the firmware via the Topping DFU tool does not restore the device to operational status.

Is this a known hardware/firmware bug related to the micro-controller initialization during AC power sequencing on the D90 III Discrete? I would highly appreciate any advice, official feedback from Topping engineers, or experiences from other owners who cycle their AC power.

Thank you.

P.s. I can't believe it, they wrote above that this coil whine sound in standby mode is a sign of a faulty device, but it turns out that this is already the second faulty device in a row!

UPD: After successfull reflashing a firmware to V0.57 i see "MCU no fw". Then "upgrading...". And then - totally blank display and coil whine sound.

UPD_2: After flashing to v0.39, the device consistently shows "MCU no fw." (without next "upgrading...". Well, that's a change, I'm hoping it's a software bug. I've contacted Topping's service center and hope for a response.

UPD_3: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/topping-d90se-updates-to-d90-iii-discrete.974127/post-19102750
A similar problem was described by a Head-Fi.org user, though unfortunately, the post went unanswered. Well, if the device really has such issues simply from being turned on and off, then this will be my last Topping device.

I’ve had the D90III for a year and haven’t had any issues. Try disconnecting everything—all cables and trigger cables—and powering on just the DAC. Start by performing a reset via the menu. It looks like an issue with your home power supply.

 

[Le_Passager]

I’ve had the D90III for a year and haven’t had any issues. Try disconnecting everything—all cables and trigger cables—and powering on just the DAC. Start by performing a reset via the menu. It looks like an issue with your home power supply.

I have no idea what could be wrong with the power supply. I have a separate dedicated power line, I tried plugging it into a separate outlet, changing the cables, and using a different PC, but everything is the same. I tried connecting the DAC separately without any cables except the power supply – same thing.

 

[RandomEar]

I have no idea what could be wrong with the power supply. I have a separate dedicated power line, I tried plugging it into a separate outlet, changing the cables, and using a different PC, but everything is the same. I tried connecting the DAC separately without any cables except the power supply – same thing.

What power conditioner do you use?

 

[Le_Passager]

What power conditioner do you use?

It’s a Rusich Rp-18AV with 8 outlets, 4 of which are powered via an isolation transformer. The rest of the equipment works fine.
But I’ll repeat: I tried plugging the DAC into a standard wall outlet - even before all these issues started - and the result was identical; it made the same high-pitched noise in standby mode.

 

[MBO]

Where do you live?

It’s a Rusich Rp-18AV with 8 outlets, 4 of which are powered via an isolation transformer. The rest of the equipment works fine.
But I’ll repeat: I tried plugging the DAC into a standard wall outlet - even before all these issues started - and the result was identical; it made the same high-pitched noise in standby mode.

Where do you live?

 

[Le_Passager]

Greetings from Russia! A private house near the city center. Household electrical system with grounding. There have never been any issues with any other equipment.

Where do you live?

Where do you live?

 

[RandomEar]

It’s a Rusich Rp-18AV with 8 outlets, 4 of which are powered via an isolation transformer. The rest of the equipment works fine.

This looks like a rare case of an actual isolation transformer in a power conditioner. On ASR, it's generally recommended not to use power conditioners: They usually don't do anything useful and they can degrade the current capability when used with amps. In this case, since it looks like a true isolation transformer to me, it could be a solution for ground loops if everything else fails. If you don't have any ground loops, I would recommend to put the transformer into storage.

But I’ll repeat: I tried plugging the DAC into a standard wall outlet - even before all these issues started - and the result was identical; it made the same high-pitched noise in standby mode.

Yes. But the question is: Why did two of your DACs fail in excatly the same way, while thousands or tens of thousands of identical units didn't? If the probability of the DAC failing in this way were 0.1% (1:1000) which seems like a high estimate, the probability of two different units failing the same way would be 1:1000000 assuming the failures are statistically independent. That's an awfully small number and if that happened to me, I'd get a lottery ticket as fast as I could manage

From my point of view, it thereby looks like the failures are not statistically independent. So something in your setup might trigger them. From the top of my head, I would check the following:

• The turn on time of the power conditioner might be too slow or the output voltage might drop again shortly after turning it on. This could result in the DAC boot sequence failing for some reason. In essence, it might be an unintentional voltage glitching "attack".
• If the PC is also attached to the power conditioner and thereby turned on at the same time as the DAC, there could be some weird interaction where the DAC gets some power over USB from the PC before it receives rectified DC from its own supply, again causing some weird boot failure or power to flow where it shouldn't.
• The power conditioner might create an overvoltage condition during turn-on, causing damage or at least problems to connected devices.
• There might be a device connected to your DAC which is not attached to the power conditioner, but grounded to mains ground / safety ground. Since the mains output on on the power conditioner is likely floating but might still be capcitively coupled to mains, this could still create leakage currents through your DAC to the mains ground. This could damage sensitive components in the DAC.

I'm sure other members more familiar with EE stuff have additional and/or better ideas. In general, I would advice you to carefully check the power conditioner for the listed problems. If you are not well versed in mains power stuff and don't have an oscilloscope, it would probably be best to ask someone with the necessary experience and tools. It's easy to blow stuff up when measuring devices with different ground references and involving mains voltage.

If you get a new DAC, I would 100% remove the power conditioner, even if you can't reliably trace the error back to the device. It's simply one more point of failure in your setup.

 

[MBO]

Where do you live?

Where do you live?

Приветствую!!
Here is my theory: unlike other DACs, the D90III features a rather complex custom power supply. It is possible that this power supply reacts too sensitively to issues with mains voltage or poor power quality—which would explain why many users in Russia report unsatisfactory performance, including regarding sound quality. I suspect the power supply design is flawed. You might want to try connecting it to a high-quality power source, such as an Accuphase power regenerator.

There could also be interference on the GND line. You could try disconnecting the GND and testing it.

 

[Le_Passager]

This looks like a rare case of an actual isolation transformer in a power conditioner. On ASR, it's generally recommended not to use power conditioners: They usually don't do anything useful and they can degrade the current capability when used with amps. In this case, since it looks like a true isolation transformer to me, it could be a solution for ground loops if everything else fails. If you don't have any ground loops, I would recommend to put the transformer into storage.


Yes. But the question is: Why did two of your DACs fail in excatly the same way, while thousands or tens of thousands of identical units didn't? If the probability of the DAC failing in this way were 0.1% (1:1000) which seems like a high estimate, the probability of two different units failing the same way would be 1:1000000 assuming the failures are statistically independent. That's an awfully small number and if that happened to me, I'd get a lottery ticket as fast as I could manage

From my point of view, it thereby looks like the failures are not statistically independent. So something in your setup might trigger them. From the top of my head, I would check the following:

• The turn on time of the power conditioner might be too slow or the output voltage might drop again shortly after turning it on. This could result in the DAC boot sequence failing for some reason. In essence, it might be an unintentional voltage glitching "attack".
• If the PC is also attached to the power conditioner and thereby turned on at the same time as the DAC, there could be some weird interaction where the DAC gets some power over USB from the PC before it receives rectified DC from its own supply, again causing some weird boot failure or power to flow where it shouldn't.
• The power conditioner might create an overvoltage condition during turn-on, causing damage or at least problems to connected devices.
• There might be a device connected to your DAC which is not attached to the power conditioner, but grounded to mains ground / safety ground. Since the mains output on on the power conditioner is likely floating but might still be capcitively coupled to mains, this could still create leakage currents through your DAC to the mains ground. This could damage sensitive components in the DAC.

I'm sure other members more familiar with EE stuff have additional and/or better ideas. In general, I would advice you to carefully check the power conditioner for the listed problems. If you are not well versed in mains power stuff and don't have an oscilloscope, it would probably be best to ask someone with the necessary experience and tools. It's easy to blow stuff up when measuring devices with different ground references and involving mains voltage.

If you get a new DAC, I would 100% remove the power conditioner, even if you can't reliably trace the error back to the device. It's simply one more point of failure in your setup.

Only my Topping audio gear (DAC, A90 Discrete, two LA90 Discrete units) is plugged into my power conditioner. The PC is connected to a separate surge protector plugged into a different wall outlet. This means the PC and DAC are connected solely via USB.

Thanks for the detailed answer! I likely won't try my luck with another "lottery" DAC from Topping. But if the seller decides to take a risk and send me a replacement for the third time - well, I suppose I’ll give it a try by plugging it directly into the wall outlet, bypassing the power conditioners.

 

[RetroStereo]

Only my Topping audio gear (DAC, A90 Discrete, two LA90 Discrete units) is plugged into my power conditioner. The PC is connected to a separate surge protector plugged into a different wall outlet. This means the PC and DAC are connected solely via USB.

Thanks for the detailed answer! I likely won't try my luck with another "lottery" DAC from Topping. But if the seller decides to take a risk and send me a replacement for the third time - well, I suppose I’ll give it a try by plugging it directly into the wall outlet, bypassing the power conditioners.

Just a thought - and it could be way off - but if you control multiple devices and normally power them all on simultaneously by way of the power conditioner, the draw from your AC line on that single circuit could be heavy enough so as to create a temporary brown-out situation. This could conceivably damage a power supply. Also, what else draws power from that same circuit? Is it a dedicated line explicitly for you audio system?

Another thought, again one that could have no meaning. Most breaker boxes divide a 220/240 line in half right down the middle of the box. I've encountered problems at times with interconnecting equipment that spanned that line. I am very careful that all of my audio gear is plugged into outlets fed from the same side of the breaker box.