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Anyone Review Topping D90III Discrete / D90 III Sabre yet ?

Anyway, since this DAC is a 1-bit DAC, the firmware actually can impact sound characteristics. For example, in a DSM algorithm like noise floor shaping, they can tweak the order of the modulator; if they set it lower, that might affect ringing (timing artifacts), as well as the choices of dither, reconstruction filters, and tap length. I don't think we can assume linear phase and minimum phase sound the same; they might not impact tonal balance or frequency response directly, but they impact ringing and the time-domain, which humans are sensitive to, too.

That's even before we mention something that's completely off, like in Topping's own Centaurus case, where people complained it sounded 'off' somehow in some modes and Topping had to release a few firmwares to correct the issue of the phase going off, for example. And many times they don't put it openly in the change logs—you can check the A70 Pro's case, where the output changed from the 4.4 in one firmware. They didn't even state that, but they rolled out a hidden fix (without mentioning it in the changelog at all, while mentioning other issues).

So, firmware on these 1-bit and R2R DACs can impact sound, but whether that's the case for this Topping D90d before 0.40 and after 0.40, only Topping themselves can tell. But for me, 0.39 sounds much closer to the D900, while 0.57 sounds very 2D, like early Topping. YMMV.
Before going down rabbit holes of hypothetical explanations for why the sound changed, I reckon it’s better to determine if the sound in fact did change.

Maybe tricky in this case as it’s impossible to instantaneously switch firmware in a blind test. If you could somehow get hold of a second unit which has 0.57 firmware, you could do it.
 
Change Log:
=================
V0.54 (September 29, 2025)

Fix: When the device is turned on from standby mode, the USB input automatically switches to AES input.
Fix: After switching between C1/C2 channels, the PEQ (Parametric Equalizer) function becomes invalid, and Tune cannot read device information.


If you have set the PEQ to your 'sound preference', then something in the firmware switches the PEQ off the 'sound' is altered.
That’s possible. But a preference for the earlier version (with the bug) would imply a preference for the “preferred” PEQ to be disabled. That seems unlikely
 
Before going down rabbit holes of hypothetical explanations for why the sound changed, I reckon it’s better to determine if the sound in fact did change.

Maybe tricky in this case as it’s impossible to instantaneously switch firmware in a blind test. If you could somehow get hold of a second unit which has 0.57 firmware, you could do it.
I might borrow one from a friend and try that when time allows.
 
I might borrow one from a friend and try that when time allows.
Awesome! Good for you for being open to experimenting

Make sure you do it properly (as per this thread)

 
I don't think we can assume linear phase and minimum phase sound the same; they might not impact tonal balance or frequency response directly, but they impact ringing and the time-domain, which humans are sensitive to, too.
Ringing is at or close to Nyquist. Even in edge cases (minimum phase filters at 44.1 kHz) it is not a concern if you're of legal drinking age or older. For anything linear phase or higher sampling rates, it's irrelevant. "Time domain" is not some magic argument that cancels out signal theory.

If there's a bug in the firmware which turns off your EQ or switches to super slow filters or something: Yes, that can be audible. It's also an obvious bug - not some subtle or ethereal change in sound.

If you want to actually know if something hidden changed, you will need to either measure it and use DeltaWave or a similar software to compare the samples (easy and extremely precise) or perform rigorous blind testing (not easy and not as reliable or precise). Just randomly listening to stuff to compare the sound before and after flashing the firmware is mostly a waste of time - at least concerning the validity of the impression.
 
Last week I bought a used Topping D90 iii discrete as in-between dac because I am selling my Chord Dave (to upgrade ofcourse). Some years ago I experimented with several Topping dacs; the measurements were extremely good and at that moment I really thought that that was my key to happiness. I ended with the first version of the D90 but still I was not impressed. The level of details was great but the overall sound was underwhelming. I gathered all the money I could find and got my (second hand) Chord Dave. Now the D90 is here again and this latest version sounds, to my ears, a lot more natural and I can easily listen to it until I have my dCS.

In my opinion completely logical. The engineers of Topping do not create version after version while nothing changes at all. They do it because they know that they initially scored with their measurements but sooner or later the focus is on sound quality. And among audiophiles Topping never had a great name.

This D90 iii discrete is the 4th version of the D90. What I hoped for is that, except cheap and good specs, this version would sound good enough to buy me time to sell the Chord and search for a replacement. And to my surprise (or not?) this is the case.
 
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In my opinion completely logical. The engineers of Topping do not create version after version while nothing changes at all. They do it because they know that they initially scored with their measurements but sooner or later the focus is on sound quality. And among audiophiles Topping never had a great name.
Yeah... no. The original D90 already was transparent. You literally cannot "focus on sound quality" any further. It's audibly perfect for all intents and purposes - how would you improve perfect?

Topping is an extremely engineering focused company - they strive for best measured specs in most of their products. They did so with the D90 and also with the D90 III discrete. The latter mostly exists to offer a device with discrete logic for marketing purposes in subjective audiophile circles.

This D90 iii discrete is the 4th version of the D90. What I hoped for is that, except cheap and good specs, this version would sound good enough to buy me time to sell the Chord and search for a replacement. And to my surprise (or not?) this is the case.
The Chord Dave has a couple of quirks performance-wise, but the DAC section looks to be audibly transparent. Unless you selected a slow reconstruction filter on the Topping or had the HF filter on with the Chord, they should sound 100% identical in a level matched, blind test.
 
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I would like to know what Topping really thinks. Why are they constantly improving everything? Does the D10 sound exactly the same as the D900? What do you (RandomEar) think of the, in your opinion, completely senseless version policy? They must be thieves in your eyes because many people sell the old version for the new one. And helpless people like me think that there is an improvement too. Ofcourse the observation of someone owning a D90 for some months, replace it with a Chord Dave, listen for 2 years and then buying the D90 III discrete and listen it for some time is totally unreliable. They should have been level-matched. :)
 
I would like to know what Topping really thinks. Why are they constantly improving everything? Does the D10 sound exactly the same as the D900?
Yes they sound exactly the same

What do you (RandomEar) think of the, in your opinion, completely senseless version policy? They must be thieves in your eyes because many people sell the old version for the new one. And helpless people like me think that there is an improvement too.
There are big differences in features that mean different models may suit different people (even if they sound the same)

Ofcourse the observation of someone owning a D90 for some months, replace it with a Chord Dave, listen for 2 years and then buying the D90 III discrete and listen it for some time is totally unreliable. They should have been level-matched. :)
I’m surprised almost every time at how previously blindingly obvious differences simply disappear when I level match
 
I don't know, for me personally, DACs don't all sound the same. I used to believe they did back when I only owned lower-tier DACs and transducers. To be honest, I really wanted to believe it then because it made me feel better that my $200 DAC sounded as good as someone else’s $5000 unit. But now? They really do sound different "to me".
 
I don't know, for me personally, DACs don't all sound the same. I used to believe they did back when I only owned lower-tier DACs and transducers. To be honest, I really wanted to believe it then because it made me feel better that my $200 DAC sounded as good as someone else’s $5000 unit. But now? They really do sound different "to me".
Do a properly controlled unsighted comparison and report back
 
I’ve already done those comparisons, and the results are why I’m currently using the gear I have. When you have the option to return everything for a full refund, there’s zero incentive to keep the more expensive DAC unless it’s actually performing better. For me, the upgrade was undeniable.
 
Cognitive bias is extremely powerful.
Keith
 
I’m well aware of cognitive bias, but usually, that bias works in favor of my wallet. I had every incentive to 'prefer' the cheaper unit and get a refund on the expensive one. The fact that I kept the pricier gear despite wanting to save the money tells me the audible difference outweighed the bias.

anyway, that's just me. I can't speak for others.
 
Bias doesn’t really work the way you expect, level matched and unsighted if you want the actual truth.
Keith
 
That's exactly what I did. Whether that aligns with your experience or not, I don't know, but with those specific set of gear, that's the result I got.
 
Whilst dacs ‘can’ sound different ( if one is extremely poorly designed) I don’t believe anyone has discerned a difference between two competently engineered unit in a properly controlled comparison. I certainly havent.
Keith
 
You're entitled to your belief, just as I’m entitled to trust what I've experienced. We can just agree to disagree.
 
Mine isn’t a ‘belief’, if any distortion artefacts are below the threshold of audibility then two units will sound identical.
A properly controlled comparison corroborates this in seconds.
Keith
 
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