Anyone attenuate high frequencies because of literal ear pain from instruments like trumpets?

[BobbyTimmons]

On many albums (with Mark Wilder remastered Miles Davis albums being the worst offenders for me at the moment) I always have to heavily attenuate the mid-high frequencies (by which I mean anything above around C5), to avoid ear pain.

This is not because any aesthetic preference, but rather literal ear pain caused by instruments like the trumpet playing in the fifth octave.

The Mark Wilder remaster of "Someday My Prince Will Come" could be used as a torture instrument for me, if I had to listen to it without access to tone controls. The sibilance of Miles' trumpet when is literal ear-pain in many passages. If you attenuate the trumpet notes sufficiently above around A4 enough to prevent the ear pain, he sounds wonderful of course.

Is this common with other listeners? And I wonder how do some purist audiophiles survive listening to such albums with their aversion to equalizers and tone controls?

 

[MattHooper]

It's not uncommon for people to find trumpets to be piercing on some recordings. Even Miles Davis' muted trumpt in Kind Of Blue can make some people's shoulders hunch up at times.

Is it just trumpets, or do other instruments in that range hurt? Do other sounds in regular life hurt in that range?
If so: Have you been checked for hyperacusis? (Over sensitivity to sound, usually in certain higher frequencies).

I suffer from occasional bouts of hyperacusis and when it's happening certain tones, especially trumpets, can hurt my ears. That's when I know it's bad. Fortunately most of the time I'm pretty good though. (In my case, this is one reason I cling on to my tube amps, which to my ears makes for less agressive sound - a couple nights ago I was playing the Bernard Herrmann soundtrack Jason And The Argonauts, which is very heavy on blasting horns, and the horns sounded rich, clear, pericingly brilliant, but no problem on my ears).

 

[FrantzM]

Reproduction chain? Speakers? EQ settings?

 

[BobbyTimmons]

Is it just trumpets, or do other instruments in that range hurt? Do other sounds in regular life hurt in that range?
If so: Have you been checked for hyperacusis? (Over sensitivity to sound, usually in certain higher frequencies).

Aside from horns, I also often receive pain from mezzo-sopranos and sopranos, unless I start to attenuate above C5.

But it depends a lot on the album - for example, the Mark Wilder remastered stereo Miles Davis albums are particularly painful for me.

It's not uncommon for people to find trumpets to be piercing on some recordings. Even Miles Davis' muted trumpt in Kind Of Blue can make some people's shoulders hunch up at times.

I did have an unpleasant experience at school where a friend blew a trumpet as loud possible in my ear once as a "funny joke" while we preparing coursework for A-level music (the final highschool year in the UK).

But generally I'm a huge fan of listening to Miles Davis, as long as I use the equalizer on certain albums. So it's not an issue of a trumpet-phobia exactly.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

Reproduction chain? Speakers? EQ settings?

In my desk room, Foobar to Scarlett 18i8 to Genelec 8030s.

And depending on the album I need to attenuate the high frequencies above 500hz, to avoid the painful sibilance.

It's little less pronounced with my passive hi-fi system, but I still often have to use the tone controls to attenuate higher frequencies, depending on the album and the remastering.

 

[polmuaddib]

I thought my tweeter was damaged when I listened to Kind of Blue SACD, a year ago or so, because the trumpet sounded so distorted, it was scary. I changed the speakers, amps and finally went online and found that many people found this problem.
Guess some recordings are too hot and no one really complained before because it didn’t sound so bad on vinyl…
I can’t listen to Kind of Blue anymore, which is sad, since I love that album. It bothers me too much…

 

[BobbyTimmons]

I thought my tweeter was damaged when I listened to Kind of Blue SACD, a year ago or so, because the trumpet sounded so distorted, it was scary. I changed the speakers, amps and finally went online and found that many people found this problem.
Guess some recordings are too hot and no one really complained before because it didn’t sound so bad on vinyl…
I can’t listen to Kind of Blue anymore, which is sad, since I love that album. It bothers me too much…

And I believe that is also a Mark Wilder remaster. Have you tried attenuating the mid-high frequencies?

Although to be honest, I also like to like to attenuate the mid-higher frequencies on a lot of classical albums. But the Mark Wilder stereo remasters of Miles Davis are probably the most painful for me without attenuation.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

These are the Foobar equalization settings which solve the issue for me. I'm also using the Mono remastering of the album now. It's attenuating from around note A4 upwards. With this I can listen to the album comfortably.

 

[Vincent Kars]

Wonder what is going on.
500 Hz is solid midrange
https://www.teachmeaudio.com/mixing/techniques/audio-spectrum#low-midrange

 

[DVDdoug]

've never had my home system loud enough to cause pain!

Of course it's OK to EQ if you're not enjoying the music. The whole point of music is enjoyment!

I'm also using the Mono remastering of the album now.

Mono?

I've done my own personal re-masters a few times with older recordings but I've either boosted the highs and/or used an "exciter" effect to "improve" the high end.

Real (live) horns can be LOUD and I do have one or two modern big-band recordings where occasionally horns make me "jump out of my seat". But to me that's just good dynamics and if the whole recording was that loud I'd be turning it down.

I don't know what the spectrum of a trumpet looks like but it seems to have lots of energy in that mid-range where the ear is most-sensitive, plus lots of harmonics.

On most rock recordings if there are horns they seem to be mostly in the background but that's the style of the performance and the mix. But, I don't listen to rock music at "realistic levels" either...

 

[daftcombo]

I have Genelec 8030C and they can have some bite with violins.

 

[Pdxwayne]

I have similar issue too. I am sensitive to harsh highs.

I have found that using very well measured DAC (gustard x16) direct to amp helps a lot.

I own Focusrite Scarlett Solo (3rd Gen) and I have tried using it before for music. I didn't like how it sounded. It appears Scarlett 18i8 was measured by Amir and got a headless panther....

 

[FrantzM]

How do you react to same instruments live?

 

[BobbyTimmons]

Wonder what is going on.
500 Hz is solid midrange
https://www.teachmeaudio.com/mixing/techniques/audio-spectrum#low-midrange

B4 to C5, so still somewhat of a high note, and around the centre of Miles Davis' playing. This is quite near where the trumpet sounds painful for my ears, although I think it's more painful when he plays a bit higher in the fifth octave. It's also in the centre of a soprano singer's range, and I'm also finding these voices painful in certain recordings.

When I attenuate above 500hz, aside from reducing some of the cymbal noise, it makes it seem like Miles Davis is positioned further away from the microphone.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

How do you react to same instruments live?

In the past, I've been ok hearing trumpets live in large venues - or at least have no memory of feeling pain from listening to them live. But if I listened to trumpets live as often as I do at home, perhaps it would be different.

I guess I've listened to trumpets on home audio a hundred times more often (or for many more hours), than I have listened to them live.

 

[polmuaddib]

I am on holidays but when I get back I will check the spectrum of Kind Of Blue, and if the trumpet clips as I suspect, then no eq will help, I am afraid.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

've never had my home system loud enough to cause pain!

Of course it's OK to EQ if you're not enjoying the music. The whole point of music is enjoyment!

Thanks I agree. But many audiophile purists seem to be against EQing when listening?

I'm curious how they survive (or perhaps my sensitivity to sibilant sounds is more unusual than I thought). I was searching on some audiophile forums and the consensus of some threads on those forums is using EQ or tone controls.

Mono?
.

I have both the older stereo and the new mono remastering of the Miles Davis album "Someday my prince will come". Both are remastered by Mark Wilder. I believe the stereo remaster is particularly bright or sibilant though.

The Mark Wilder stereo remasterings of Miles Davis from the late 1990s, seem to be the ones which caused my ears the most pain.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

I am on holidays but when I get back I will check the spectrum of Kind Of Blue, and if the trumpet clips as I suspect, then no eq will help, I am afraid.

At this moment, I'm listening to the 2013 mono remastering of the album (also remastered by Mark Wilder). I'm sensing that this 2013 remastering might be less bright or painful to my ears without EQing, compared to Mark Wilder's late 1990s remasters.

Still I'm finding it much more comfortable to listen to with the EQ settings where I attenuate everything above 500hz.

 

[FrantzM]

It seems that Mark Wilder uses Auratone Monitors and Duntech. I searched Auratone and they seem to have just one monitor and it uses a full -range driver … Could that be the issue? of course kudos and congrats to the reissue sounding sooo much better than the original …

 

[BobbyTimmons]

It seems that Mark Wilder uses Auratone Monitors and Duntech. I searched Auratone and they seem to have just one monitor and it uses a full -range driver … Could that be the issue? of course kudos and congrats to the reissue sounding sooo much better than the original …

Just from listening this evening against my memory of the stereo recordings, I feel that Mark Wilder's 2013 mono remastering of "Kind of Blue" and "Someday My Prince Will Come" might be less bright sounding, than his 1990s stereo remasterings.

I mean the ones from this boxset. Although I prefer stereo usually, I have this boxset ripped on my computer:

From what Wilder says about his equipment for this boxset:

"Wilder tells me in an email that he did his tape-to-vinyl comparisons using a 9-input monitor preamp with level adjustments. His other gear included Duntech Princess speakers, a Krell FPB-300 amp, and a Denon DP 72L turntable with a Shure V15 cartridge and Bryston phono stage. He heard the tape on an Ampex ATR, or Studer reel-to-reel, whichever sounded better.

The set's booklet contains Wilder's mastering notes for each album. Here's what he wrote about Miles Ahead: "Surprisingly, the original master was in very good shape. But when we listened to the master on the playback machine, it sounded a little thin and hard compared to the original album pressing. So we used a softer-sounding tube equalizer to standardize the bass and reduce the mid-range throughout." " https://www.stereophile.com/content/miles-davis-ithe-original-mono-recordingsi