Anybody PREFER listening to music on bookshelves or tower speakers only (without the subwoofer)?

[NewbieAudiophileExpert]

So i currently have a cambridge audio Azur 550A driving a pair of wharfedale crystal 4.3 towers, which are a three-way design, with a frequency response ranging from 50 to 20 000 hz.

At times I like to listen to music and sometimes I'll hook up my amp's pre-outs to the sub's input and it does sound good, of course... but if i am to be completely honest, i kind of *like* and even *prefer* the sound that the tower speakers generate solo... that is without the subwoofer.

Although the SB1000 that i have does fill-jn the missing region of lower bass, especially from 20-35hz, i don't really think that it makes the 'listening experience' in my case any better...

I'd think that there would be instances where those who have 'decent' bookshelves would opt-out of a subwoofer, for similar reasons..

Can anybody else here relate to these thoughts?

EDIT: Please take into consideration that my sub is plugged into my AVR for HR use... AVR front pre outs --> amplifier's DVD input ---> 'DVD' setting ----> fronts and for music listening it's Macbook --> Apple music ----> Topping D10S -----> amplifier's aux inputs.. I can't change the wires around all of the time..

 

[JSmith]

Can anybody else here relate to these thoughts?

Well I don't run a sub for 2 channel... but my floorstanders go down to 37Hz.

If you don't listen to music that has a lot of lower bass, then this may be why you find the preference for no sub. Also, the sub may need better integration with your mains.


JSmith

 

[NewbieAudiophileExpert]

Well I don't run a sub for 2 channel... but my floorstanders go down to 37Hz.

If you don't listen to music that has a lot of lower bass, then this may be why you find the preference for no sub. Also, the sub may need better integration with your mains.


JSmith

Do you find it at all anemic when listening to music? Have you tried to integrate your subwoofer at all?

The thing is, i feel that the speakers do produce substantial bass already.... it's not ROOM-SHAKING bass, but it's there... and sometimes it's kinda cool and you know... fine to not have the room shaking bass that a sub is able to produce...

In my own experience and at this point, there's definitely a thing where a good pair of bookshelves or towers is totally sufficient for pleasurable music listening.

 

[ppataki]

My personal experience: for music you don't need subs but a pair of whatever speakers that you prefer that can go down to 30Hz at 0dB
Meaning that they are still flat at 30Hz and start to drop below that
(note: not on paper but actually measured in your room at your main listening position)
With that you will be covered for 96% of all music, at least in my experience

 

[MarkS]

Yes, I understand this.

Very difficult to get bass balance right, and a sub makes it harder; get it even a little wrong, and the bass sounds "off".

 

[alex-z]

So i currently have a cambridge audio Azur 550A driving a pair of wharfedale crystal 4.3 towers, which are a three-way design, with a frequency response ranging from 50 to 20 000 hz.

At times I like to listen to music and sometimes I'll hook up my amp's pre-outs to the sub's input and it does sound good, of course... but if i am to be completely honest, i kind of *like* and even *prefer* the sound that the tower speakers generate solo... that is without the subwoofer.

Although the SB1000 that i have does fill-jn the missing region of lower bass, especially from 20-35hz, i don't really think that it makes the 'listening experience' in my case any better...

I'd think that there would be instances where those who have 'decent' bookshelves would opt-out of a subwoofer, for similar reasons..

Can anybody else here relate to these thoughts?

A properly integrated subwoofer shouldn't even be noticed. It should simply sound like you have bigger speakers, which can play deeper and with less distortion. I see no reason to ever disable subwoofers once you have them dialed in properly. Meaning the correct location, correct crossover point, time aligned with the speakers, etc. A measurement mic is your best friend for this task.

Sure, my subwoofers can shake the room, but only if the music track actually demands it. The vast majority of the time, they are just making sure kick drums are clean, and generally taking load off the woofers in my speakers.

 

[MachOne]

Subs can excite very low frequency resonances in the room that the mains don't, and those resonances can certainly degrade the listening experience if they are prominent enough.

 

[Sancus]

That's usually due to poor integration. Which is understandable, integrating a sub is not trivial.

 

[thewas]

Even with good neutral equalised setups sometimes transducers going very deep can excite the resonance frequencies of some furniture like for example closet doors, I had to add some layers of alu-butyl to damp them.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Assuming your tower speakers have been well designed, the manufacturer will have gone to great lengths to produce a coherent sound. I'm not surprised it sounds good without a subwoofer, it should!

 

[NeoZs99]

Subs can be a pain in the ass to integrate in the system unless you have some form of active room correction or measurements.

 

[JSmith]

Do you find it at all anemic when listening to music?

No... but then the extra 13Hz would help a bit there for me, plus bass extension.

Have you tried to integrate your subwoofer at all?

Yes, previously I had a 2.1 setup, however now I am in an apartment so have the sub packed away and my current speakers are different (better) to the ones I was using then.
My speakers employ differential bass loading using 2 chamber twin rear ports.

I find even with movies, the phantom centre is spot on and bass is more than adequate.


JSmith

 

[frankrcarter]

Subs can be a pain in the ass to integrate in the system unless you have some form of active room correction or measurements.

I feel it’s near impossible to know what’s going on and what adjustments to make without accurate measurements to get the transition from mains to subs smooth. Then placement/eq to get a smooth response is equally important IMO.

Without this high level of effort, I understand why some would opt to turn the sub off.

 

[NewbieAudiophileExpert]

So i took the advice of the members here and decided to be a 'better integration' of one of my subs with the towers - I chose a Cambridge Audio Minx x300, set the crossover to 50hz and below, and then adjusted the volume so that it isn't too noticeable and doesn't 'over power' the tower's audio... but it's there.

Sounds OK actually - it fills in the spectrum from 50hz - 35ish hz i guess.

 

[MattHooper]

Yes I prefer to listen to my floor standing speakers (rated down to 35Hz) without subs. I had subs, didn't find they added much (in fact, detracted somewhat) so I sold them.

I'm happy not to have subs. I don't care for the looks of subs, having to cram additional speakers in to my room, added wiring, the hassle of integrating and added complexity...it just wasn't worth it, to me.

 

[NewbieAudiophileExpert]

Ok, so just listening to some good tunes and i have to admit that this sound wayyyy better - it's almost as if you can hear the tones of 50Hz and below 'pushing up' through the tower's tone and 'supporting it'... sounds excellent really..

I could try and do the same with my SB1000, but that would require the HT to be disrupted...

Yes I prefer to listen to my floor standing speakers (rated down to 35Hz) without subs. I had subs, didn't find they added much (in fact, detracted somewhat) so I sold them.

I'm happy not to have subs. I don't care for the looks of subs, having to cram additional speakers in to my room, added wiring, the hassle of integrating and added complexity...it just wasn't worth it, to me.

35hz - Damn that IS pretty low.. which towers do you have and which subs were you using? I know that my towers can handle bass pretty well.. but they can't even TOUCH the dedicated 'small' 8 inch subwoofer, whose rumble can shake the whole building... not that a good integration of a subwoofer will ever really harness THAT much power.

 

[MattHooper]

Ok, so just listening to some good tunes and i have to admit that this sound wayyyy better - it's almost as if you can hear the tones of 50Hz and below 'pushing up' through the tower's tone and 'supporting it'... sounds excellent really..

I could try and do the same with my SB1000, but that would require the HT to be disrupted...

35hz - Damn that IS pretty low.. which towers do you have and which subs were you using? I know that my towers can handle bass pretty well.. but they can't even TOUCH the dedicated 'small' 8 inch subwoofer, whose rumble can shake the whole building... not that a good integration of a subwoofer will ever really harness THAT much power.

I had two JL Audio 110E subs, with their CR-1 crossover (which is incredible for simplifying the crossover point between subs and main speaker) and a DSPeaker Anti-Mode for room correcting the subs. I got a pretty seamless blend, but ultimately preferred the tonality and slightly better "punch" without the subs.

 

[NewbieAudiophileExpert]

I had two JL Audio 110E subs, with their CR-1 crossover (which is incredible for simplifying the crossover point between subs and main speaker) and a DSPeaker Anti-Mode for room correcting the subs. I got a pretty seamless blend, but ultimately preferred the tonality and slightly better "punch" without the subs.

Damn, that's a heavy duty set up in my books - do you have the subs positioned right next to the speakers? Which speakers were you using?

 

[ryanosaur]

I use my subwoofers almost all the time, and my mains are capable to ~25Hz. I also fairly routinely listen to program that pushes lower frequencies in some Electronica and Pipe Organ.
That said, I also find that taking the lower end away from my Speakers gives greater detail up high and more oomph from the bass when passed to the Subs.
I have Phil 3s and Outlaw X-13s.

 

[valerianf]

I have a sub only in the configuration where the FL/FR speaker do not have a large driver (>= 8 inch) for the low frequencies.
Without sub the amplifier needs to be able to provides enough low frequencies power.
In the case of a sound bar or tiny computer speakers, I do use a sub.