Anybody here have experience with the Edifier T5s Powered Active Subwoofer?

[NewbieAudiophileExpert]

This is a cheap subwoofer from Edifier, which usually has decent products.

My question is has anybody here had any experience with this sub? If so, how does it compare to regular subs like the SVS?

 

[NotInYourHead]

Edifier R1280DBs (sub-out) + T5 review

For the first time the delivery is not in a 20kg box, that's refreshing. Oh hey it says Bluetooth 5.0 on the box. Unboxing The bag tells you to keep it away from babies. This is a grown man's speaker. The double-layer of wrapping is what we've gotten used to seeing from Edifier ...as...

forums.hardwarezone.com.sg

The reality of a small 8-inch driver, basic measurements show it has very little output below 35Hz. Any SVS would massacre this thing. It's good enough to enhance the low-end of small bookshelf speakers, but not much else.

 

[Jiraya369]

if you have tiny bookshelves with no low end around 50 hz or something this'll be an excellent addition. I think everyone should be able to experience how it feels to hear till 40-50 hz at least and these subs help do that.

but if you have good speakers that dig deep and you're expecting a massive jump i'd say temper your expectations.

 

[NewbieAudiophileExpert]

Apart from the SB-1000 - what other subwoofers do you all recommend?

 

[georgie_david]

This is a cheap subwoofer from Edifier, which usually has decent products.

My question is has anybody here had any experience with this sub? If so, how does it compare to regular subs like the SVS?

It's a pretty decent subwoofer for the price. It can definitely rock a 12x12 room. Under $200 I don't think it'll be easy to find anything better.

 

[J.J]

This is a cheap subwoofer from Edifier, which usually has decent products.

My question is has anybody here had any experience with this sub? If so, how does it compare to regular subs like the SVS?

I'm actually very surprised by the effectiveness of this sub. A couple of caveats: I'm at best a budget audiophile; my pursuit of the best sound possible has been constrained by the funds available. My ability to enjoy components is also constrained by the tinnitus I developed following a lifetime of sonic abuse! But I sill know when something sounds good. I have a pile of gear that would be called entry-level audiophile. My main media room rig includes a 10 year old Marantz AV receiver, 5 Monitor Audio Bronze speakers, and an SVS SB-1000 sub. This combination produces sound quality that's as good as I could want, under the circumstances. The SVS sub provides solid reinforcement. I also have a bunch of odds and ends that I cobble together in various combinations for fun. I've recently been interested in the trend towards tiny, cheap, class D amps and bought a Fosi Audio ZA3 to see what all the fuss is about. The intention was to build (yet another!) desktop system for my office. I have experimented pairing the ZA3 with a couple of different small speakers. The latest is a pair of PSB Alpha LR1 surround speakers that I bought in the aughts. This combination obviously does not cover the bass frequencies, but the ZA3 has a sub out and, having seen a favorable review of the T5s and a decent price on Amazon, I pulled the trigger. I am astonished by how good this cheap and cheerful combination sounds! For nearfield desktop listening, it sounds great! Adding the T5s to the small PSB's produces a surprisingly full sound, and the entire system cost under $600 CAD! Now, as reviewers have stated, the T5s will not produce room shaking bass in a large space, but for the price and in the appropriate scenario, I highly recommend the T5s.

 

[DazST]

I decided to take a chance on this sub for use in my office system as it was on sale for $230AU. Damn, this little thing has serious volume for it's size and amp power. I have it set to only about 10-15% max volume, with master volume and cross-over controlled by a wiim ultra. So far I'm finding a 65hz crossover to work well with my Dali Spektor 2s.
First impressions are very, very good. This thing is doing exactly what I wanted in terms of filling the bottom end with nice, punchy bass. It can also really rumble if you up the volume a bit (Radiohead's "The Gloaming" for instance absolutely rumbles through my body). For this small room, I can't see a reason to go for a bigger, more expensive sub. It also looks and fits really nicely tucked under the end of my desk.

 

[whazzup]

Quick in-room frequency response measurements of the T5s as a desktop subwoofer in my room, with me seated at desk holding the mic in front of my face. Best size / price / performance, even better if you can get it on sale. You'll have to forgive that 35 Hz room null. Amazing what one can get out of 70 watts. Thank you Edifier!

A HUGE caveat: I do not know if this is a problem with all multi-channel, usb-powered dacs, or only the Xonar U7, but you can see from the measurements the reduced output. When connected to the onboard realtek soundcard that wasn't an issue. Probably the result of the max 1V output of the U7 and the 5V usb power. So if you find that the sub is not sounding as loud as you'd imagined, the fault might lie with the voltage output of your device, especially if it's a multi channel usb dac. In comparison, my older Klipsch sub's max volume was much higher than the T5s and thus could compensate for the weak output of the U7.

In use however, that peaky 50hz has to go. What I feel works well for me was a much gentler bass slope. And a steeper roll-off so that vocals don't bleed into the sub. Those mic'ed up studio talking head videos tend to have boosted low ends to give more gravitas to their voices, but that can easily make the sub 'hum' along in something like the T5s with its gradual low pass filter. But YMMV.
Anyway, I brought down the 50 Hz by 10 dB, Q 3 (on peace equalizer apo) for both sub and speakers, and added a steeper 80 Hz lpf.
Note: graphs measured at 100% volume (in Windows), with the T5s at 100% volume and speakers at 60%. During typical non-movie use I have the OS's volume at 40-50%.

 

[Redacted]

A lot of small speakers will roll off at say, 55Hz. It varies. A good priced sub that can extend down to a -3dB point at 35-40Hz will help - for most music, you only need to able to get down to low E on a bass guitar (~43Hz) to be at the appropriate relative volume to get a lot of benefit.

 

[3VRMS]

Quick in-room frequency response measurements of the T5s as a desktop subwoofer in my room, with me seated at desk holding the mic in front of my face. Best size / price / performance, even better if you can get it on sale. You'll have to forgive that 35 Hz room null. Amazing what one can get out of 70 watts. Thank you Edifier!

A HUGE caveat: I do not know if this is a problem with all multi-channel, usb-powered dacs, or only the Xonar U7, but you can see from the measurements the reduced output. When connected to the onboard realtek soundcard that wasn't an issue. Probably the result of the max 1V output of the U7 and the 5V usb power. So if you find that the sub is not sounding as loud as you'd imagined, the fault might lie with the voltage output of your device, especially if it's a multi channel usb dac. In comparison, my older Klipsch sub's max volume was much higher than the T5s and thus could compensate for the weak output of the U7.

In use however, that peaky 50hz has to go. What I feel works well for me was a much gentler bass slope. And a steeper roll-off so that vocals don't bleed into the sub. Those mic'ed up studio talking head videos tend to have boosted low ends to give more gravitas to their voices, but that can easily make the sub 'hum' along in something like the T5s with its gradual low pass filter. But YMMV.
Anyway, I brought down the 50 Hz by 10 dB, Q 3 (on peace equalizer apo) for both sub and speakers, and added a steeper 80 Hz lpf.
Note: graphs measured at 100% volume (in Windows), with the T5s at 100% volume and speakers at 60%. During typical non-movie use I have the OS's volume at 40-50%.

Thanks so much for the measurements!

Been looking for any form of measurements for quite some time. It's such a popular sub at such an attractive price and form factor, especially when on sale or when buying 2nd hand.

 

[DazST]

In my view when considering performance, cost and size/design, this is pretty much the perfect sub for desktop/nearfield use in a small room.

 

[whazzup]

In my view when considering performance, cost and size/design, this is pretty much the perfect sub for desktop/nearfield use in a small room.

Yes, it's affordable enough and of a suitable form factor that for a looonggg moment i was contemplating and itching to get a second sub (and a wireless sub kit) to fill out the nulls..... NO I CANNOT!

 

[sphenicstands]

Noob question: what's the reason for the T5s having output all the way up to 1.14kHz? I expect it's completely inaudible but with the listed frequency response of 35Hz - 115Hz and the LPF range of 30Hz-160Hz, I was naively expecting the output to be 0 above 115Hz or so, although I also don't understand why the LPF range exceeds the frequency response range by so much.

 

[whazzup]

Noob question: what's the reason for the T5s having output all the way up to 1.14kHz? I expect it's completely inaudible but with the listed frequency response of 35Hz - 115Hz and the LPF range of 30Hz-160Hz, I was naively expecting the output to be 0 above 115Hz or so, although I also don't understand why the LPF range exceeds the frequency response range by so much.

That's my noise floor. Living in high rise apartment with building construction works about 2-300 metres away....

Side note: Amazingly, Mr Brent Butterworth had done a proper review of the T5s with CTA-2010 frequency response measurements and that didn't seem to be picked up by Google:

Subwoofer Comparison

The thing that can make subs difficult to integrate is group delay curve differences between the mains and the subs. Even if the crossover is aligned properly it is possible you can have cancelation effects below the crossover exactly where you would expect the sub to be taking over. The...

www.audiosciencereview.com

CTA-2010 results

docs.google.com

If you want a slim, affordable design that’s easy to hide: The Edifier T5s measures just 6.7 by 16.25 by 16.25 inches, making it easy to slip into narrow spaces. In our tests, it had a maximum output of 115.1 dB in the midbass and 100.8 dB in the low bass, outperforming the slightly slimmer but more expensive Dayton Audio SUB-1000L. It’s also one of the best-looking under-$200 subwoofers we’ve seen.

The Best Subwoofers

For powerful, precise bass in stereo and home theater systems, the best subwoofer is the compact, affordable Rogersound Labs Speedwoofer 10S MKII.

www.nytimes.com

 

[sphenicstands]

Side note: Amazingly, Mr Brent Butterworth had done a proper review of the T5s with CTA-2010 frequency response measurements and that didn't seem to be picked up by Google:

Thanks. I was pointed to that on another Edifier MR5 dedicated thread and it helped me decide to purchase. To share some of my noob experience pairing the T5s with the MR5s, bearing in mind this is the first sub I've ever had, I have no measurement equipment or skill and I still need to perform more everyday listening with a broader range of material:

• The line in/line out loop through is passive. It works even if the T5s is unplugged from mains. I like this as it means the T5s shouldn't interfere with the signal to the MR-5s.
• I've set the T5s low pass filter dial to "6", which I estimate to be about 62.5 Hz, assuming each notch is evenly distributed between 30 and 160 Hz. The MR5-s support a low cutoff filter via the ConneX app ranging from 20Hz to 100Hz in 10Hz increments and with slope options of -6, -12, -18 or -24 dB/octave. I've set the MR-5s to 60Hz with a -24 dB/octave slope. I based the cutoff frequency on @Nuyes 's MR-5 review as well as the frequency response chart on the MR5 product page and the recommendation made by the SVS Subwoofer Matching Tool which happens to be 60Hz. I don't know if their recommendation is portable across different subwoofer brands but it marries up with the other two data points. I have no idea what slope to use so I left it as the steepest and default -24 which also corresponds to the SVS recommendation. I note however, there is no way to know what the T5s slope is, nor adjust it.
• Room dimensions roughly 3 x 2.5 meters. Desk positioned well away from walls. The sub is visibly sizeable. I imagine a larger one would look unhappy here
• Very first listening was disappointing. However, I subsequently performed the subwoofer crawl. It sounded like a crazy amount of work when I read about it but in practice, there aren't many practical places to place the sub since I have no desire to move any of my furniture. So I decided to just choose the best out of the practical spots under or beside my desk. At first, I wasn't sure what I should be listening to or for but it's easy to toggle between MR5 only, T5s only or MR5+T5s using the power switches on both speakers. T5s only can sound really weird and sound like I imagine listening to music under water would sound with no mid or high frequencies penetrating. For example, in Disciple by The Warning, up to the 11 second mark I can make out the beat but it sounds more offbeat than I thought it should and from 11 seconds it sounds like mud. However, with MR5+T5s it sounds great and the offbeat start is more interpretable. I think this is because T5s only misses the mid range notes that join the sub bass notes together? The Z track sub only sounds clearer and more identifiable. Am I correct in thinking T5s only sounds weird because of a combination of missing mid range notes that string the bass notes together and also music notes not being pure tones? So some of what I hear with T5s only is just the bottom spectrum of a note and in isolation it will sound muddy and weird?
• It's occurred to me I should find some bass heavy acoustic music to test, as rock tends to have some level of distortion anyway?
• Something I wasn't prepared for, is the sub easily vibrates my wooden floor. This greatly limits how loud I can have it. However, with my current settings, it sounds good with only minor vibration so I think it's okay. I did get some Pro-Ject Damp It feet. I'm not sure they made much difference to the vibration which means they probably didn't. However, without them, when I stand up from my desk and walk around, the sub sounds bad, louder and muddier and something I don't want to listen to. With the feet, they still sound louder but not as muddy and they are actually listenable to but not as good as at my seated position. The change may have been due more to the height change than any damping effect.
• I was a bit concerned the sub sounds louder when I stand. However, I listened from an adjacent room and it doesn't sound noticeably loud or neighbour annoying so I think it might be a localized in room only bass gain effect from reflections?
• My Audioengine D1 DAC has a preamp volume control with no markings and the MR5 has a volume control which ranges from 0 to 30, with the value readable in the ConneX app. The sub volume control doesn't behave intuitively in my setup. The first few notches, there is no sound at all. Sound suddenly kicks in at "4" or "5", can't quite recall. I played around with a few combinations between the three before settling on "6" for the sub. I think but I'm not 100% sure that the volume control is discrete, having an effect only at each marked notch, despite the knob being continuously turnable. A large factor with my final volume choice is having the D1 knob at a "useful" level, as it is one of those for which the most volume change happens early. I'm used to having it fairly low and adjusting it minutely so I've left it at that.
• It's hard to see the knob markings because you have to get down low on the floor to look at it straight on. I wonder if it would be possible to have the controls on top of the sub.
• The combination of MR5 volume, T5s volume and DAC volume allows for bare bones EQ. I find the settings for music listening results in way too loud bass and floor vibration for gaming and movies/tv shows. So for the latter I turn up the MR5s and lower the DAC, thus decreasing the sub volume. This is a bit annoying but not hard as the ConneX App allows me to precisely adjust the MR5 to be about 12 or 13 for music, depending on the album and 16-18 for games, depending on the game and I can quickly adjust the DAC volume based on what I'm hearing. I still use the MR5 volume knob but I use the ConneX App to view the setting.
• I read from https://eastwoodhifi.com.au/blogs/blog/how-to-connect-a-subwoofer-to-a-stereo-amplifier 'A perfectly dialled-in subwoofer shouldn't call attention to itself. If you can actively point to the corner of the room and say, "The bass is coming from right there," the volume is too high. You should only notice the subwoofer when you turn it completely off and the soundstage collapses.' I think my settings correspond to this. Being able to easily toggle between MR5 only, T5s only and MR5+T5s makes it easy to confirm what the T5s is adding. Even though the T5s only doesn't actually sound very loud to me, it has a noticeable impact on the overall sound. For example Hell You Call A Dream on my Sennheiser Game One headphones sounds great but on MR5 only, it was missing the sub bass, drastically changing the sound and impact of the track. With the T5s it sounds great and I expect the MR5+T5s to now sound hands down better than the Game Ones across all material.
• Gaming and movies: explosions now have the weight I expect them to have. Similar to music, T5s only doesn't actually sound that loud but MR5+T5s sounds complete whereas MR5 only sounds too thin, missing the expected weight. The T5s even has a noticeable impact on some weapon sounds. It's subtle but compared to MR5 only, what the T5s adds is clear.

I wasn't prepared with the amount of mucking around required to integrate the sub but overall, I am happy with the purchase. MR5 alone, whilst very detailed, doesn't sound right anymore without the T5s holding up the bottom. I do wish I could eliminate the floor vibration completely but my limited research makes me suspect that's intrinsic in sub bass soundwave physics and unfortunate building design.

I've heard some opine you shouldn't spend more on a DAC than your speakers. Now that I've blown my original budget, only intending to get the MR5 initially, does that mean my DAC budget has automagically increased?

 

[whazzup]

@sphenicstands
Are you using equalizer apo / peace or any other eq solution on your machine? I believe your issue with the wooden floor vibrations is due mainly to the excessive 50hz's SPL.

If you eq down that 50hz by 10dB (Q of 3), or even more, and depending how you have your LPF set, you should be able to max out the T5s volume. After that, max out your system volume (with speakers off!) and tweak the eq and LPF, so that your whole room doesn't vibrate to pieces for the former, and that bassy studio mic'ed voices don't bleed too much into the sub for the latter. In case it wasn't clear, you're trying to max out the T5s' 30-50hz output capability and get max usable bass here. And because you've already high passed at 60 for your speakers (I used 80), it shouldn't matter if you're not separating your sub channel from your speakers.

Once that crazy 50hz is more in line with the rest of the frequencies things should sound a lot better. Anyway, after the simple eq, just reduce the system volume to a sufficiently loud level and match your speakers to your sub by ear.

For quick tests I typically just run to youtube to test with Jonathan Moffett's drum demos (search 'michael jackson drummer'). This is the part where if you're not careful it can take hours....

I've heard some opine you shouldn't spend more on a DAC than your speakers. Now that I've blown my original budget, only intending to get the MR5 initially, does that mean my DAC budget has automagically increased?

Definitely. Guy math for the win!

 

[sphenicstands]

@sphenicstands
Are you using equalizer apo / peace or any other eq solution on your machine? I believe your issue with the wooden floor vibrations is due mainly to the excessive 50hz's SPL.

If you eq down that 50hz by 10dB (Q of 3), or even more, and depending how you have your LPF set, you should be able to max out the T5s volume. After that, max out your system volume (with speakers off!) and tweak the eq and LPF, so that your whole room doesn't vibrate to pieces for the former, and that bassy studio mic'ed voices don't bleed too much into the sub for the latter. In case it wasn't clear, you're trying to max out the T5s' 30-50hz output capability and get max usable bass here. And because you've already high passed at 60 for your speakers (I used 80), it shouldn't matter if you're not separating your sub channel from your speakers.

Once that crazy 50hz is more in line with the rest of the frequencies things should sound a lot better. Anyway, after the simple eq, just reduce the system volume to a sufficiently loud level and match your speakers to your sub by ear.

No EQ in use at the moment but I'm interested in looking into it when I get a chance. I use multiple sources, Linux for music, Windows and consoles for games. Games cause the biggest "boom", though. The Thermite Launcher in Titanfall 2 makes me worry my floor will collapse if I turn up the sub bass. So starting off with a Windows program to learn the ropes first sounds like a good first step and longer term I can look into a hardware solution that will support all three platforms.

However, I forgot to mention I did try a free tone generator at https://www.xbitlabs.com/bass-test/ with just the T5s on. It's actually 60Hz and 30Hz that cause the most vibration, including window rattling, with the rattling being more pronounced at 30Hz. Does the fact they're multiples of each other provide a clue as to what might be going on? There's some vibration at 50 and 40 but it's less. Given this, I'm not sure if EQ will help?

This is the part where if you're not careful it can take hours....

So true!

Definitely. Guy math for the win!

lol!

 

[whazzup]

@sphenicstands
Sure, I only mentioned 50hz because that's what I measured in my room, but if you find that 60hz is the obnoxious child in yours, reduce that instead and see whether you hear a difference versus reducing 50hz.

As for the 30hz, see if you really have a problem with it at your typical listening volume before reducing it (after tackling the 50-60hz peak). We normally want the lower frequencies to be boosted, so a room mode 30hz peak could actually work to your advantage. You don't need the eq to be very precise to hear the difference between a controlled 'in your room' thump of the kickdrums vs the overblown spluttering mess of the unmodified T5s (when turned up).

Once you home in on an eq that works, I'd imagine it should be easy to replicate to your Linux setup as well, though I must confess I don't know the equivalent solutions there. No experience with gaming consoles, though you can probably get either a Wiim Mini with its 3.5mm jack input and built-in PEQ, or a Nobsound eq preamp. For example, Console > D1 DAC > Wiim mini / Nobsound > Speakers + Sub.

*I checked out some Thermite Launcher footage, yah man unequalized T5s won't be usable/enjoyable.
But yes, getting bass right in games is damn satisfying. So much glorious, artificial bass in games.

 

[DanielT]

Edifier R1280DBs (sub-out) + T5 review

For the first time the delivery is not in a 20kg box, that's refreshing. Oh hey it says Bluetooth 5.0 on the box. Unboxing The bag tells you to keep it away from babies. This is a grown man's speaker. The double-layer of wrapping is what we've gotten used to seeing from Edifier ...as...

forums.hardwarezone.com.sg

The reality of a small 8-inch driver, basic measurements show it has very little output below 35Hz. Any SVS would massacre this thing. It's good enough to enhance the low-end of small bookshelf speakers, but not much else.

Any SVS would massacre this thing

It depends on what you’re looking for. Plus, price has to be factored into the comparison.

An SVS 3000 Micro versus four or even five Edifier T5s.
In terms of surface area, five 8-inch Edifier T5s are more or less equivalent to two 12-inch subwoofers.

Okay, the Edifier T5s seem to go down to 35 Hz, whereas the SVS can go lower:


However, even SVS can't get around Hoffman's Iron Law; despite all the DSP trickery, this issue arises:

Dynamic Range
The 3000 Micro delivers exceptional levels for its size. To prevent the dainty 8-inch cones from fluttering and distorting at the lowest frequencies, the electronics lock down at 93 dB. Above a still remarkable 30 Hz, the 3000 Micro plays at considerable volumes.

SVS 3000 MICRO Review - Sub specialist's micro machine « 7Review

The desire for more bass is there, but integrating a subwoofer can be challenging? The 3000 Micro from SVS might be the easy solution to many problems.

7review.com

So, how much lower can you push five Edifier T5s using EQ and still get 93 dB out of them at those lowest frequencies? In that case without the cones starting to flutter and distort.Okay, T5s only has a 70-watt amp, so even with five of them—totaling 350 watts—that’s not a huge amount to work with in that regard.

Edifier T5s is a are ported design, so the possibilities for pushing them lower in frequency are more limited compared to a sealed sub but I’m mentioning it anyway.

Then there’s the practical—and perhaps aesthetic—aspect of plugging five subwoofers into a listening room, but I’ll leave that aside.

Edit:
Regarding the aesthetic and practical aspects: with a slim subwoofer like the T5s, this is possible.Two subs placed on the side of a sofa. A setup that meastro Floyd Toole himself has (not T5s subs):

A photo is attached, showing the sub tucked in on each side of a sofa.

Page 10, #186

A Broad Discussion of Speakers with Major Audio Luminaries

The propagating "wave front" attempts to eliminate length modes only, but the initiating subwoofers do not launch a plane wave. The width and height modes are separate issues, and in their installations they are attenuated, not eliminated, by locating the subwoofers at locations 25% in from the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[NotInYourHead]

Any SVS would massacre this thing

It depends on what you’re looking for. Plus, price has to be factored into the comparison.

An SVS 3000 Micro versus four or even five Edifier T5s.
In terms of surface area, five 8-inch Edifier T5s are more or less equivalent to two 12-inch subwoofers.

Okay, the Edifier T5s seem to go down to 35 Hz, whereas the SVS can go lower:
View attachment 556852

However, even SVS can't get around Hoffman's Iron Law; despite all the DSP trickery, this issue arises:

Dynamic Range
The 3000 Micro delivers exceptional levels for its size. To prevent the dainty 8-inch cones from fluttering and distorting at the lowest frequencies, the electronics lock down at 93 dB. Above a still remarkable 30 Hz, the 3000 Micro plays at considerable volumes.

SVS 3000 MICRO Review - Sub specialist's micro machine « 7Review

The desire for more bass is there, but integrating a subwoofer can be challenging? The 3000 Micro from SVS might be the easy solution to many problems.

7review.com

So, how much lower can you push five Edifier T5s using EQ and still get 93 dB out of them at those lowest frequencies? In that case without the cones starting to flutter and distort.Okay, T5s only has a 70-watt amp, so even with five of them—totaling 350 watts—that’s not a huge amount to work with in that regard.

Edifier T5s is a are ported design, so the possibilities for pushing them lower in frequency are more limited compared to a sealed sub but I’m mentioning it anyway.

Then there’s the practical—and perhaps aesthetic—aspect of plugging five subwoofers into a listening room, but I’ll leave that aside.

Edit:
Regarding the aesthetic and practical aspects: with a slim subwoofer like the T5s, this is possible.Two subs placed on the side of a sofa. A setup that meastro Floyd Toole himself has (not T5s subs):

A photo is attached, showing the sub tucked in on each side of a sofa.
View attachment 556865
Page 10, #186

A Broad Discussion of Speakers with Major Audio Luminaries

The propagating "wave front" attempts to eliminate length modes only, but the initiating subwoofers do not launch a plane wave. The width and height modes are separate issues, and in their installations they are attenuated, not eliminated, by locating the subwoofers at locations 25% in from the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I made that comment months before Brent Butterworth released his test results for the T5s. Safe to say I took that comment back

The Edifier represents really good value.