Any thoughts on my new office stereo setup?

[Nate T]

After a decade or so, I'm getting the urge to upgrade my desk setup. Back in the day my goals were basically "decent for the money" and budget room correction. I went with a pair of MK Bookshelf-75 speakers (on stands to get them mostly above my triple monitor setup), a Paradigm PW-Amp for ARC (knowing it's a pretty garbage amplifier, but it was cheap power and room correction), a Dayton Sub-1200, and a DX3 Pro. I use it for general listening - streaming shows and movies, music, etc. Pretty much all nearfield, though I move around a bit.

I want to replace the PW-AMP most of all, as its noise floor is ludicrous and it has various other frustrations. So I'm looking at getting a minidsp Flex and a pair of Fosi V3 monos. But I've also realized my 12' x 17' room has entirely predictable massive nulls at ~47 and 33Hz, while combine to kill most of the bass at my listening position. So I'm thinking that two subs are also going to be basically necessary in this room if I want real bass. Fortunately I have a spot diametrically opposite my existing sub spot that should work, and in theory should prevent those massive first-order nulls from forming. I'm thinking of upgrading my primary sub to a Rythmik L12, and adding a JL Audio Dominion d108 on the back wall. The JL doesn't go as low, but it's flat to about 30Hz, which should be more than enough to deal with the room modes, and it's nice and compact. The L12 can handle the really low frequency stuff, is extremely fast and accurate, and should have more than enough power for my uses, even below 30Hz where it'd be acting alone. One other reason I chose the L12 over some other options is that I have a fairly narrow space on the wall to put it, sandwiched between my desk and a couple PC towers. The slot itself is about 18" wide, but I wanted to leave a bit of a gap, and wanted to avoid any side-firing subs, which cut out a few potential competitors.

I figure I'll buy the L12 first, and temporarily stick it in the back location just to test the theory that these locations do work in the room, before I buy two subs that potentially aren't better than one. (With everything else in here there isn't a lot of flexibility in terms of placement, but I think these being on opposite walls, roughly the same distance out from opposite corners, should in theory work well.) It's also possible I won't mind the size of the L12 there, and I'll just choose to go with two of them. If it does feel a bit large in the spot though, which I think it will, the d108 should fit there nicely being at least a couple inches smaller in all dimensions.

And finally to round it all out I'm thinking Kef LS50 Metas to replace my MKs. I really want to hear this coaxial directivity magic in person in the space I'm used to. And since they're sitting on stands on the back corners of my desk (which is a sit/stand adjustable thing), I don't want to go with something giant, so these are toward the large end of what I'd consider. They should have no problem crossing over at 80 Hz though. (The subs will go to 80 easily, it is possible they could struggle with another room mode at ~70Hz and need some help. Not sure the Metas will do much there.)

So in summary,

Current:
DX3 Pro, PW-AMP, MK Bookshelf-75s, Dayton Sub-1200

Planned:
DX3 Pro (headphones only), MiniDSP Flex, Fosi V3 Monos, Kef LS50 Metas, Rythmik L12, JL Audio Dominion D108.

Starting with the Flex and Monos, then adding the L12, then the D108 (or second L12) and the Metas.

But choosing what to get is at least half the fun, so I don't mind circling around it a bit more before taking the plunge. Any changes I might consider? The only speaker I keep coming across that could be considered a direct upgrade to the Metas in the same vein, without being larger, would be a Genelec, but that's at several times the price, and I think overkill for my uses. (Besides need to leave something for when I'm itching for another upgrade!) But for now, what would you do differently? Or if you just want to praise my discerning selections, I'll take that too.

 

[Marc v E]

I have a great desktop setup for little money that keeps giving me a lot of fun. In my experience you really need a subwoofer , possibly 2, but for monitors the outlay can be simple and straightforward. Positioning and eq is more important.

I had a minidsp flex but I just didn't like it. The way I needed to adjust the eq was just too much hassle to me. The user interface of a Wiim ultra suits me much better. Even better, imo and ime, would be a package consisting of active speakers with eq build in. The result is just sharper, there's very few boxes and it just costs a moment to set up.

That's why I would start with demo-ing some obvious candidates to get a general idea of what that sounds like.

My candidates would be:

Neumann kh750 sub with monitors kh80, 120 or 150. Dsp is included in the sub. You only need to buy the neumann microphone and you're ready. The sub in particular is incredibly dynamic and capable ime.

Genelec 8331 (coaxial smallest monitor) paired to a GLM sub. Glm is genelecs automatic eq. When choosing glm monitors you really need a glm capable sub for easy integration. Again, just a sub and 2 very small monitors give really high end sound. The difference between relatively cheap monitors and coaxials like these is mainly pinsharp imaging and treble. You really need to hear it to see if you like it. Imo it was just too attention grabbing and intense. Your experience may be different.

I chose the 8030 and a genelec sub without glm. Measured with rew and implemented in Wiim ultra streamer. I would recommend to listen to the 8030 and the 8040. These are a lot more affordable than the 8330 glm capable line, but do essentially the same when measuring with rew and dialing in eq. Only for very smart and clear sub integration glm is really the ultimate imo.

Then over too the kef ls50 meta. I heard the ls60 which I rate highly. But the ls50 doesn't work for me at all. Again I would advice to hear them at least once or be able to send them back quite easily. They are quite bulky compared to the speakers above, roughly double the volume. And need to be crossed over relatively high iirc around 100 to 120 hz. For desktop setup this looks to me as not ideal.

In the end it all depends on what you value most. But ime for a desktop setup, professional monitors from genelec, like the 8030 and Neumann, are hard to beat because they are active, designed for that setup and can be quite easily integrated with a sub and eq.

I think mounting points at the back of the speakers will help you much in setting them up correctly, for example in positioning them above the monitors. Professional speakers like the Genelec and iirc Neumann have these.

 

[Nate T]

Good thoughts. I do agree that active speakers tend to have an advantage in terms of performance for their size. The Kefs will fit my space, and their 3dB down point is 79Hz, so I think they should work with a crossover near 80, but you're not wrong they're on the big side for the space. I really do like at least the idea of coaxial though, which basically means either these or going all the way to the Ones (8331A).

If I do give up that requirement though, you make a good point that the 8030C, or maybe even better, the KH120 II, would be a technically excellent speaker in a significantly smaller package. I'd honestly considered the Neumanns and then discarded them mostly because I'd rather go with other subs, and it felt like a waste if I wasn't planning to use their whole MA 1 system. (Similar thinking with Genelec and GLM.) But both are also just really good speakers on their own, and being active, are able to do a lot in a small package. Plus both are specifically designed for near field.

I'll think on it. I do still like the idea of trying out a coaxial speaker, and subjectively I enjoy the design of the Kefs. But maybe I'll see if I can buy both from a store with a good return policy and return the one I love less.

 

[Marc v E]

To give an idea what it's best suited for I would say that moving around a lot behind your desk, left, right, standing and sitting, that's where coaxials make all the difference.
For example my sweetspot is about 1 meter left and right and sitting behind the desk, which suits me just fine.

But when seated at my desk a coaxial means just a bit sharper image, more details for a lot more money; more akin to if you want the ultimate 10% of the very best speakers can do. Setup of speakers both coaxial or not, is ime more like 90% of the end result.

Regarding the Genelec coaxials, I would definately recommend to include a glm sub for integration.

 

[Marc v E]

The Kef lsx is coaxial, smaller than the ls50 and may actually be better suited to a desktop setup.
The imo small drawbacks are the subwoofer integration is quite basic and suited to subs from kef themselves iirc for crossover. And eq on these forums often cited as not enough; could be easiliy solved with a wiim mini on usb in apparently. Might be worthwhile to check out:

LSX II - Wireless Speaker System | KEF EU

Elevate your audio experience with the KEF LSX II active wireless speaker system. Explore our premium sound technology, innovative features, and stylish design.

eu.kef.com

Based on ls50 listening however, this is not comparable in performance to the Genelec 8331. I would also rate the sound quality of 8030 higher.

 

[davmol]

Before going mini dsp, Fosi monos and a second sub, you could first pick up a WiiM Amp Ultra on Amazon, and give its room correction a try out with your existing gear (with the Wiim the sub is fully integrated into the room correction process). The WiiM is aesthetically attractive for a desktop setup, cuts down on cables and huge power bricks like the Fosi monos (great amps, I have owned them in the past), and gives you a touch screen, which in a desktop setting is actually useful for playing / pausing / skipping tracks.

If the WiiM makes your existing kit sound great, then keep it and move on to upgrading speakers if you still want to, and if it doesn't do it for you then you can return it to Amazon and go with your next plan. Double check this part because these are quite recent feature additions, but I think you can add a second sub to the WiiM so long as one of them is a wireless WiiM sub (double check in case it has to be two WiiM subs, probably still in beta).

Slightly left field alternative approach, based on my own recent revelations, go for an AV receiver with Audyssey xt32 (primarily Denon or Marantz) and use OCR's free AcousticX algorithm, which I found to be excellent. If you like it then you could pay for his Gsonic apps that he just released, which will cover multiple subs, and with the right AVR you could have up to four subs, and could also add surrounds or a centre in future if you wanted it.

 

[Marc v E]

Before going mini dsp, Fosi monos and a second sub, you could first pick up a WiiM Amp Ultra on Amazon, and give its room correction a try out with your existing gear (with the Wiim the sub is fully integrated into the room correction process). The WiiM is aesthetically attractive for a desktop setup, cuts down on cables and huge power bricks like the Fosi monos (great amps, I have owned them in the past), and gives you a touch screen, which in a desktop setting is actually useful for playing / pausing / skipping tracks.

If the WiiM makes your existing kit sound great, then keep it and move on to upgrading speakers if you still want to, and if it doesn't do it for you then you can return it to Amazon and go with your next plan. Double check this part because these are quite recent feature additions, but I think you can add a second sub to the WiiM so long as one of them is a wireless WiiM sub (double check in case it has to be two WiiM subs, probably still in beta).

Slightly left field alternative approach, based on my own recent revelations, go for an AV receiver with Audyssey xt32 (primarily Denon or Marantz) and use OCR's free AcousticX algorithm, which I found to be excellent. If you like it then you could pay for his Gsonic apps that he just released, which will cover multiple subs, and with the right AVR you could have up to four subs, and could also add surrounds or a centre in future if you wanted it.

+1
I tried the same with passive speakers, fosi mono blocks and minidsp flex. Ultimately the WiiM ultra streamer + active speakers and sub provided the solution I was searching for. For passive speakers +sub the Wiim Amp ultra would be the one.

 

[Nate T]

Looks like all these WiiM products only support a single sub, so they won't work for my space. The minidsp with Dirac and the Fosi amps are considerably more expensive, but should allow full flexibility for balancing two speakers (whether passive or active) and two subs. Plus the ability to switch to active speakers in the future without needing to toss the whole DAC/DSP, just the inexpensive amps.

 

[kemmler3D]

So my current setup is not totally irrelevant to what you are talking about: Genelec 8030 and 2x SVS SB1000. I've been running them off a Topping DX5 but just last night picked up a secondhand MOTU M4, which was the cheapest reasonable option I could find with 4 discrete output channels. The reason for going that route - I'm going to trial Dirac ART and the new Umami Audio Perfect Soup as room correction solutions that may make best use of the two subs.

I'm hoping Perfect Soup ends up being competitive (they claim it can outperform) because it's much cheaper for the 4-speaker setup.

I have zero complaints about the 8030s but the room itself sucks. It needs treatment but until I have time to make and install some, I'm hoping this active cancellation tech does what it says on the tin.

I have a WiiM Mini going into my DX5 just so I can use the system in a multiroom situation, (EQ is currently handled by EQAPO) but I think I can just use the desktop app instead, so that may get repurposed.

 

[DMill]

So my current setup is not totally irrelevant to what you are talking about: Genelec 8030 and 2x SVS SB1000. I've been running them off a Topping DX5 but just last night picked up a secondhand MOTU M4, which was the cheapest reasonable option I could find with 4 discrete output channels. The reason for going that route - I'm going to trial Dirac ART and the new Umami Audio Perfect Soup as room correction solutions that may make best use of the two subs.

I'm hoping Perfect Soup ends up being competitive (they claim it can outperform) because it's much cheaper for the 4-speaker setup.

I have zero complaints about the 8030s but the room itself sucks. It needs treatment but until I have time to make and install some, I'm hoping this active cancellation tech does what it says on the tin.

I have a WiiM Mini going into my DX5 just so I can use the system in a multiroom situation, (EQ is currently handled by EQAPO) but I think I can just use the desktop app instead, so that may get repurposed.

Your kit would be end game for many people’s main listening space. This is your office? Please invite me to hear your main system

 

[kemmler3D]

Please invite me to hear your main system

LS60 + 2x KC62, but sadly I haven't been using the subs lately due to wifi interference. And just got the LS60s back from being sent to KEF USA for repair. I'm going to see if I can just run some damn cables to the subs. Room also suboptimal, speaker placement subordinate to decor and living room layout requirements.

For almost every piece of gear I avoided paying full retail, sometimes by quite a bit! I got the 8030s (b not c revision, to be fair) from someone who turned out to be an ASR member for $550. Crazy deal. Craiglist etc. are your friends!

 

[Multicore]

People have already commented on the speakers. I want to ask about the MiniDSP Flex. We have one in the living room system and it's great for that as we have 5 inputs connected and it does EQ for all of them, including a turntable. But what are your sources? If it's just the computer then you do the EQ on that using Equalizer APO and REW to set it up. Choose sub(s) that provide the sub crossover and the Flex is redundant.

 

[Nate T]

People have already commented on the speakers. I want to ask about the MiniDSP Flex. We have one in the living room system and it's great for that as we have 5 inputs connected and it does EQ for all of them, including a turntable. But what are your sources? If it's just the computer then you do the EQ on that using Equalizer APO and REW to set it up. Choose sub(s) that provide the sub crossover and the Flex is redundant.

Could do that, but if the idea is to avoid needing a multichannel dac, then there's no way to properly set the relative delays of the subs and monitors, I don't think? Also I'd be stuck sending a full frequency signal to the monitors. Or if I do all that in equalizer apo, then I still need a good multichannel DAC, and might as well just get the minidsp, no?

 

[Multicore]

Could do that, but if the idea is to avoid needing a multichannel dac, then there's no way to properly set the relative delays of the subs and monitors, I don't think?

True. If you're that advanced then you're beyond me because I don't care enough to fuss with timing. But you should!

Also I'd be stuck sending a full frequency signal to the monitors.

Not necessarily. A lot of subs high pass the signal they forward out.

Or if I do all that in equalizer apo, then I still need a good multichannel DAC, and might as well just get the minidsp, no?

No. MiniDSP is for DSP (I have a fan on my Flex cos those old Xilogs are hot). Otherwise I'd go with an audio interface with 4 or more line outs. Focusrite, MOTU, Topping Pro, RME...

 

[Marc v E]

Could do that, but if the idea is to avoid needing a multichannel dac, then there's no way to properly set the relative delays of the subs and monitors, I don't think? Also I'd be stuck sending a full frequency signal to the monitors. Or if I do all that in equalizer apo, then I still need a good multichannel DAC, and might as well just get the minidsp, no?

You can set the delay in a sub or in a (Wiim) streamer.

 

[Miguelón]

Sorry, I loose the thread for a while: I've just received my new KEF lsx 2, they sound really great after tweaking on their EQ serttings.

I cannot imagine how good can sound with a sub, the dispersion is pheonemenal, even tangencial to the speakers voice and mids are clear.

Off axis I prefer their sound to my Genelecs G Three, or at least this is my first impression.

Did you give them a try?