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Any similarities between F1 and audio?

Holmz

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Its fine to have different opinions but you should at least watch your language.

Noted!
But it was not used as a pronoun, adverb, verb, noun, etc.

It was solely used for denoting effect, emotion, and opposition of view.
And it is probably better to have factual references, rather than opinions.

Most of what separates the drivers is measured and has been measured. And left foot breaking (I think) was the most telling.
But @Frank Dernie answered it more authoritatively, and without the use of colourful language.

At the amateur end, your hypothesis about car and driver “as a system”, is largely true.
And I guess it is like audio in that there is then a “Synergy”?

Also most amateur’s are seeking PBs every outing.
It is more rare that they seek consistency.

I would rate consistency as the most important… as one can then tell if a different technique, line, etc. is resulting in a better lap.
Without it, then we have no idea where a good lap comes from.
So it IS a lot like audio, where lots people have no idea where good things come from, and how to repeat it.
But it is not like audio in that there is a lot of data, and lots of engineers pouring over the data. They are not using “opinions”.
 

Holmz

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But only where the performance increases from their ability to adapt is larger than the difference in the car.
Look at Romain Grosjean
2020 f1 season placed 19th (2 points)
2020 Bahrain GP qual 19th out of 20 ( crashed out and traped in car while on fire by ankle)
2021 indycar. in his 3rd indycar race ever.

Grand Prix of Indianapolis

Qualify p1 Finish p2 !

I like Kimi, his press conference responses, and his radio dialogue.

He is a no B.S. sort of fellow.
 

Glen20

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I like Kimi, his press conference responses, and his radio dialogue.

He is a no B.S. sort of fellow.
Thanks I just read his wiki page

I don’t think you can have an argument or a problem with Kimi. If you do, the problem is not him, the problem is you.
Sebastian Vettel, speaking about Räikkönen in 2021.[213]

“Räikkönen is known for his dislike of giving media interviews, and frequently answers questions in a blunt and monosyllabic manner. In the build-up to the 2006 Brazilian Grand Prix when then-ITV pundit Martin Brundle asked Räikkönen why he missed a ceremony in which footballer Pelé presented Michael Schumacher with a lifetime achievement award, Räikkönen replied "I was having a shit."”
 

clearnfc

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Noted!
But it was not used as a pronoun, adverb, verb, noun, etc.

It was solely used for denoting effect, emotion, and opposition of view.

Ok, whatever rocks your boat....

I have no intention of posting further replies.
 

Sal1950

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... and carburetors too. :D
Some ole tech was pretty kool, like magnetos.
I ran this Morris magneto on my 1966 Harley back in the mid 1970s.
It allowed me to remove the heavy electric starter and all it's supporting crap.
Run kick only, battery-less using only the generator, regulator, and a large capacitor for lights.
Must have lightened the bike by 100lbs plus.
Magneto's points only switch a very low current and they last virtually forever.
Just pop the lid, check the gap due to any wear of the rubbing block, and put a drop of oil on the rubbing
block lubing felt once a year.
With the 88cid stroker motor I built, this baby would hall ass.
Only negative is you needed a strong right leg, I still limp a bit because of it. :p
1966 Shovel2.jpg
 

Doodski

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Some ole tech was pretty kool, like magnetos.
I ran this Morris magneto on my 1966 Harley back in the mid 1970s.
It allowed me to remove the heavy electric starter and all it's supporting crap.
Run kick only, battery-less using only the generator, regulator, and a large capacitor for lights.
Must have lightened the bike by 100lbs plus.
Magneto's points only switch a very low current and they last virtually forever.
Just pop the lid, check the gap due to any wear of the rubbing block, and put a drop of oil on the rubbing
block lubing felt once a year.
With the 88cid stroker motor I built, this baby would hall ass.
Only negative is you needed a strong right leg, I still limp a bit because of it. :p
View attachment 206587
Hehe... Yes, I looked at the pic and saw the large kick start foot pedal and thought, "Steel shanks and toes are required for sure for starting this bad boy." I ran magnetos on all my 2 stroke dirt bikes with lights. It was awesome. I had issue with the points on my 1977 Honda MR175 though. The metal would transfer from one side to the other and be melted on one side of the points while there was a divot on the mating surface of the points. That and it ate condensers like every 6 months. So I got very good at using a buzz box for points setup.
 

clearnfc

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You make incorrect assumptions.
Audio has been a solved problem for decades now, there are no non-measurable aspects in pHi Fi.
You make incorrect assumptions.
Audio has been a solved problem for decades now, there are no non-measurable aspects in Hi Fi.

Hmmm, now thinking about it.... Even for subjective aspect, a score can still be assigned. Doctors commonly use a scale of 1-10 when asking patients about how much pain they feel etc..

So, yes, you are right to say that there are no non-measurable aspects.
 

Sal1950

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Glen20

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You're welcome.
There is a lot of marketing mis-information fed to fans, more so now than ever as the promotor tries to increase the fan base.
Hi Frank
Do you know if there have been discussion regarding potential brain damage from violent shaking due to porpoising.
There is growing evidence this happens to olympic sledding races.
It was nice to put a face to your name when watching Peter Windsors F1 YouTube channel
I have always found your comments here to be both interesting and helpful
Thanks
 

Frank Dernie

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Hi Frank
Do you know if there have been discussion regarding potential brain damage from violent shaking due to porpoising.
There is growing evidence this happens to olympic sledding races.
It was nice to put a face to your name when watching Peter Windsors F1 YouTube channel
I have always found your comments here to be both interesting and helpful
Thanks
Sorry I am not involved any more, I sat on the FIA Technical Commission back in the day but not in touch with them any more.
The bouncing does seem more extreme this time, probably teams trying to use aeroelasticity to gain performance but losing it instead, IMO.
 

tuga

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Correlation: the final barrier?
 

DudleyDuoflush

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I guess it's the difference between simulating and measuring and virtual iteration Vs practical iteration.
 

charleski

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I think a lot of F1 fans know that F1 engines are, in fact, musical instruments that have been adapted to power race cars. So you could say there's a degree of similarity:

:D
 

tuga

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Correlation with what?
In F1 far too much confidence is given to computational predictions IME.
Neither the aero nor tyre temperature data is accurate enough for the simulators to be accurate in an absolute sense, they use fudge factors to get near.

I was referring to audio (listening/measurements). But I suppose it might be possible to correlate diver feedback with telemetry?
 

clearnfc

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You're welcome.
There is a lot of marketing mis-information fed to fans, more so now than ever as the promotor tries to increase the fan base.

Cheers, really thanks for the explanation. I really appreciate it!!
 

Old Listener

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It is no surprise to me that the only thorough textbook on speakers is Toole, all the others who know what they are doing probably want to keep their knowledge to themselves. It is certainly my opinion that having a single performance score for a speaker is probably absurd.
I agree that relying on a single performance score for a speaker is probably absurd. However, there is plenty of people who just want to be told what's best.

Amir's review posts include a number of measurements. Readers would get better results if they first learn a bit about the purpose of those measurements so that they could interpret Amir's results and fit them into their decision making process.
 

Sal1950

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However, there is plenty of people who just want to be told what's best.
Amir's review posts include a number of measurements. Readers would get better results if they first learn a bit about the purpose of those measurements so that they could interpret Amir's results and fit them into their decision making process.
True, but for folks like us this is a passion and we happily spend time doing our homework on it.
But for most others they just have a $ number in there heads and want the best system, car, dishwasher, motorcycle, computer, etc; they can get for their budget. Unlike in times past, todays toys are SOOOO complicated and can take huge amounts of time just to get a basic feeling for their operation, etc.
(a 200 page manual to use your new phone).
I can't blame folks for their shortcut desires, I'd like some too.
The biggest problem of all is "who can you trust" to supply the numbers? We all know corruption is rampant in High End Audio
What a mess. :facepalm:
 
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