Any reason why the Satori MT19CP coax isn't more used?

[Defo]

I don't see much use of this coaxial. Seems well designed and a great candidate as a cardioid satelite crossed to a subwoofer for example.
See attached power response with crossover. Just the usual coax HF accident that disappears as soon as you go off axis.

SB Acoustics Satori MT19CP-8-R1 Coax - Page 2 sur 2 - JustDIYIt !

Je vous propose le test du coax SB Acoustics Satori MT19CP-8-R1 afin de voir comment le fabricant gère son coax haut de gamme.

www.justdiyit.com

 

[staticV3]

10k tweeter breakup mode is a bit unfortunate.

 

[Defo]

10k tweeter breakup mode is a bit unfortunate.

There's no 10k tweeter breakup mode. It's the normal coax on-axis HF accident found on pretty much every coax in existence. Disappears as soon as you go off-axis.

 

[staticV3]

There's no 10k tweeter breakup mode. It's the normal coax on-axis HF accident found on pretty much every coax in existence. Disappears as soon as you go off-axis.

Out of curiosity, do you have an idea what KEF and Genelec might be doing differently to tame their Coax drivers?


(Sorry for OT)

 

[Digital_Thor]

Look at the stationary part at the center of the KEF coax units, which act like a small fixed waveguide surrounding the tweeter with the mandarin dispersion thingy on top. That's why it behaves better. The SB Satori has a much more "typical" coax transition between the tweeter and woofer cone, creating little "obstacles" for the tweeter to pass, which definitely creates the little wiggles at around 10kHz. I experience the same with my Seas C18 and BMS coax - again something I do not see as much with my KEF coax.

Build something like a MOFI 888 clone. The Satori coax on top, and then a couple 7-8" woofers below - rock on - you'll might never even hear that 10kHz
Preferably use a 3 way Hypex plateamp, and do it all active - then you have a little more ease with integration and DSP to tame some room modes too - in one package.

 

[Ktacos]

Well they're 300 usd, that's probably a big reason why you don't see them used much.

 

[Defo]

As long as the HF accident is strictly on-axis, it's gonna contribute almost nothing to the total sound power.

My idea was to maybe make some small cardioid satellites with them to extend that nice power response down to 200-300 Hz where they could meet an active subwoofer/bass system.

 

[Defo]

Well they're 300 usd, that's probably a big reason why you don't see them used much.

180 EUR from TLHP

 

[Digital_Thor]

Well they're 300 usd, that's probably a big reason why you don't see them used much.

True.... but sometimes better drivers do not only potentially give you better sound, they are also a lot easier to work with, given their better design.

 

[Digital_Thor]

As long as the HF accident is strictly on-axis, it's gonna contribute almost nothing to the total sound power.

My idea was to maybe make some small cardioid satellites with them to extend that nice power response down to 200-300 Hz where they could meet an active subwoofer/bass system.

Look at the test. They do not perform good bass. And when you relieve them from higher excursions, you get a nice upper response too.
No lower than 300Hz and which subwoofer are you planning on getting a smooth response from at a crossover of 300Hz?

 

[Ktacos]

True.... but sometimes better drivers do not only potentially give you better sound, they are also a lot easier to work with, given their better design.

In my world of active filtering, every driver is easy to work with

 

[Rick Sykora]

From their own measurements, there are some woofer resonances to deal with above 3 kHz…

Sica coax seems a better value to me (notably if crossing to a woofer for better low bass). They are hard to find here though.

 

[Defo]

Look at the test. They do not perform good bass. And when you relieve them from higher excursions, you get a nice upper response too.
No lower than 300Hz and which subwoofer are you planning on getting a smooth response from at a crossover of 300Hz?

They're not meant to do bass. Pretty much all subwoofers do 300 Hz smoothly without issues.

 

[Defo]

From their own measurements, there are some woofer resonances to deal with above 3 kHz…

View attachment 400316

Sica coax seems a better value to me (notably if crossing to a woofer for better low bass). They are hard to find here though.

You low pass the woofer long before 3k. French site quoted in first post does 2k. Tweeter distortion starts to rise a little below that.

 

[Rick Sykora]

You low pass the woofer long before 3k. French site quoted in first post does 2k. Tweeter distortion starts to rise a little below that.

Can always apply more filtering to deal with ugliness but as others have said, some drivers/crossovers are easier than others. The woofer rippling is 10-20 dB above the tweeter, so a 2nd order crossover barely puts a dent in it. Have you designed many speaker crossovers? Difficult to judge what you may or may not know as you have so few posts.

You did ask why the Satori may not be used often.

 

[Digital_Thor]

They're not meant to do bass. Pretty much all subwoofers do 300 Hz smoothly without issues.

So you would do like Lyngdorf with their smallest series, where they put two woofers in the corners and then use a DSP to delay them into a summation with the two small satellites - as a boundary woofer?
https://lyngdorf.steinwaylyngdorf.com/lyngdorf-bw-2/

 

[a4eaudio]

I don't see much use of this coaxial...

Other than price, these are also quite new. A diyaudio thread announcing these were available was summer 2023 and SBA's revised spec sheet is February 2024.

 

[Defo]

Can always apply more filtering to deal with ugliness but as others have said, some drivers/crossovers are easier than others. The woofer rippling is 10-20 dB above the tweeter, so a 2nd order crossover barely puts a dent in it. Have you designed many speaker crossovers? Difficult to judge what you may or may not know as you have so few posts.

You did ask why the Satori may not be used often.

Woofer breakup isn't really anything special. Typical of hard diaphragms and nothing a 3-4th order (electrical) filter cannot handle, so can't imagine that being a dealbreaker as to why it's seen so little adoption.

So you would do like Lyngdorf with their smallest series, where they put two woofers in the corners and then use a DSP to delay them into a summation with the two small satellites - as a boundary woofer?
https://lyngdorf.steinwaylyngdorf.com/lyngdorf-bw-2/

Something like that High WAF and controlled dispersion all the way from 200-300 Hz.

 

[Rick Sykora]

As a DIYer, this driver is pricey and there are alternatives. At the right price, might be more interesting. For commercial use, the same issues apply with even greater emphasis on value. @sigbergaudio has designs that use comparable drivers, so he might have some useful advice as it does make a difference when you are buying a driver in volume vs personal application. Also depends on your design target and how well this driver might apply versus alternatives.

Several good points have been made already, and maybe will see more designs in the future. SB Acoustics has a quite a few but none using any of their coaxials. Might be useful to ask if they have plans to offer a design.

 

[Devnull]

I'm surprised power handling hasn't been mentioned as a reason no one seems to be using them. 60 watt power rating is very limiting especially at the price point.