Any reason not to order the new Buckeye 2nd Gen Purifi EIGENTAKT 2-ch amplifier?

[Hear Here]

Differences? Perhaps. Human-audible differences? Unless deliberate, you’d have to screw up pretty bad. But that’s why we measure this stuff. An insufficient power supply will produce measurable limitations in power headroom, distortion, etc. Poor component selection or internal layout will produce measurable noise/distortion/FR issues. While obviously there's a minimum cost to a solid implementation, most of this is down to thoughtful engineering, not how much $$ you spend on gold-plated parts.

It may intrigue you that the Purifi module built under license by NAD offers a significantly greater output than the EVAL board.

The M23 / M33 Master Series units use this module delivering 200 / 380 watts, whereas the C298 (also Purifi Eigentakt) delivers 185 / 340 watts. Odd being from the same stable. One is better implemented with better components all round - hence the price and performance difference, perhaps? I'd suggest you get what you pay for, generally speaking. Not all Purifi amps are the same.

As one of your fellow contributors observed "If you have the cash for it, then go for the M33, which is a State Of The Art Streamer/Amp, with stunning build quality, beefy power (actually even more powerful than Purifi reference design)"

 

[Buckeye Amps]

Again. If someone wants to part with more money for the same audible performance, that's their perogative.

 

[restorer-john]

Being that we are on ASR forums, an easy search would show that cost/being a "recognized" company isn't directly related to better performance

And being on ASR, you would know the 5W@4R SINAD is hardly a sole determiner of performance is it? No need for you to play that silly fool's game.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

And being on ASR, you would know the 5W@4R SINAD is hardly a sole determiner of performance is it? No need for you to play that silly fool's game.

You're right. I wouldn't use the SINAD as a way to be like "This amp is clearly better than that amp" of course.

But it's a great starting point to show that among the different builds around the same amp module, there is negligible variation and from there someone could do a deeper dive to compare the entire review gamut of each if they'd like. But we both know that unless there is a clear inherent issue/defect, the overall measurements will have a similar negligible variation between builds.

 

[Wavez]

oh no, I created one of those threads

Anyways, I preordered the new Buckeye. Looking forward to it!

 

[amper42]

It may intrigue you that the Purifi module built under license by NAD offers a significantly greater output than the EVAL board.

The M23 / M33 Master Series units use this module delivering 200 / 380 watts, whereas the C298 (also Purifi Eigentakt) delivers 185 / 340 watts. Odd being from the same stable. One is better implemented with better components all round - hence the price and performance difference, perhaps? I'd suggest you get what you pay for, generally speaking. Not all Purifi amps are the same.

As one of your fellow contributors observed "If you have the cash for it, then go for the M33, which is a State Of The Art Streamer/Amp, with stunning build quality, beefy power (actually even more powerful than Purifi reference design)"

The C298 has a reputation for less than desirable bass response. NAD is not magical - just different and in some cases offers worse measurements than a standard Buckeye or Boxem Purifi build.

I like the power efficiency that comes with the Buckeye and Boxem 1ET400A Purifi builds. It's absolutely magical to only need 15W to support background listening levels. But if you want to talk about the "sound quality" of a Purifi amp compared to a Buckeye NC502MP for $695? It's non-existent. So you pay almost double for better measurements and better energy efficiency with the Purifi. And by the way - NAD screws up the power efficiency too.

 

[pogo]

But it's a great starting point to show that among the different builds around the same amp module

NAD does not use any off-the-shelf purifi modules (Lyngdorf and T+A also build under license with improvements) but rather modules produced and matched 'in-house'.
This also applies to the M23, the bridge-mode extension of the M33, i.e. in the real world, other things matter (one example):
NAD has added a gain stage to increase its headroom so that it works better with the DSP circuits of its room-correction software and tone controls. NAD concedes that this slightly decreases the M33’s signal/noise ratio, but with careful design and premium parts, and because the Eigentakt’s S/N is so low to begin with, the noise is still inaudible.
Source: soundstagehifi.com

 

[Buckeye Amps]

My bad for using the term module rather than using a more correct term (I incorrectly assumed people would infer EIGENTAKT comparison).

Point still stands.

 

[slm0x]

I need a new amp that pushes 200w+ per channel into 8ohm. (Revel f208 speakers, Wiim ultra streamer - I know I don't need 200w+, but I just want to give them all the power they're rated for and never worry about it again. Need to replace my current amp anyways.)

I was going to order the Nilai Hypex DIY kit, but this 2nd gen Eigentakt 1ET6525SA is for sale with similar specs. I like that it's prebuilt for about the same money, and I prefer the look of the buckeye case.

Now, the new Buckeye hasn't even been measured yet, and I don't think anyone has heard it either, so kind of shooting in the dark here, but seems like I can't really go wrong with this choice.
What would you do?

I recently purchased a Hypex NCx500 stereo amp from Buckeye. I was originally after 2 second gen purifi monoblocks. Dylan talked me into the Hypex stereo amp. I was reluctant to be talked out of the Purifi direction.

I really can't believe how good the Hypex NCx500 is. It's amazing. I think I like it more than my McIntosh MC207. I like it more than my Willsenton R8 tube amp. I like it better than my Parasound Halo, Adcom, and Acurus products. It's incredible.

 

[DWPress]

Just to chime in here - I own a Buckeye 4ch NC252 with serial number "2", Dylan's second order. It has performed flawlessly from the beginning and I have received assistance with questions and even got a new vented top plate at no cost as the design evolved. I've watched Buckeye grow over the years and his interactions here on ASR and elsewhere and I can honestly say he has my full respect.

Congrats on placing your order @Wavez, you'll have no regrets.

 

[thomasriise]

I recently purchased a Hypex NCx500 stereo amp from Buckeye. I was originally after 2 second gen purifi monoblocks. Dylan talked me into the Hypex stereo amp. I was reluctant to be talked out of the Purifi direction.

I really can't believe how good the Hypex NCx500 is. It's amazing. I think I like it more than my McIntosh MC207. I like it more than my Willsenton R8 tube amp. I like it better than my Parasound Halo, Adcom, and Acurus products. It's incredible.

What / Why did he talked you into Hypex over Purify?

I'am considering NC502MP, Hypex NCx500 or 1ET6525SA. Any thoughts?

 

[jhaider]

It may intrigue you that the Purifi module built under license by NAD offers a significantly greater output than the EVAL board.

The M23 / M33 Master Series units use this module delivering 200 / 380 watts, whereas the C298 (also Purifi Eigentakt) delivers 185 / 340 watts.

Can you convert those figures into dBW for us?

 

[Buckeye Amps]

What / Why did he talked you into Hypex over Purify?

I'am considering NC502MP, Hypex NCx500 or 1ET6525SA. Any thoughts?

In their case, they were looking at the Purifi 9040 Monoblocks. They are definitely the latest SOTA/top measuring amp out there. But most customers are looking for the best match at the best price for their setup so in this case, with the speakers they have (etc), when cost is factored in the NCx500 was the better choice for them.

 

[Koeitje]

Different power supplies, internal wiring, case design, internal screening, better components - surely some of these, or all of them, will influence the sound difference between a cheap DIY or garage-built amp based on a basic Eval board, compared with one costing 2 or 3 times as much (but still much better value than A or AB amps) from a recognised brand that makes the effort to get the absolute best from Eigentakt technology.

That will only affect measurements. In a lot of cases all the fancy shit you are talking about actually lowers measured performance. In almost all cases it doesn't really matter as it will have no audible effect.

 

[Hear Here]

Can you convert those figures into dBW for us?

No - I simply quote the figures given by a single brand about 2 of its products. Perhaps ask NAD if you really want the answer

That will only affect measurements. In a lot of cases all the fancy shit you are talking about actually lowers measured performance. In almost all cases it doesn't really matter as it will have no audible effect.

If that were the case, why would NAD offer a costly box that features "all the fancy shit" that "actually lowers measured performance", when they don't need to? If their other Eigentakt offerings without the the better internals sounded better, they wouldn't be able to sell them and they wouldn't be so highly praised by respected reviewers.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

If that were the case, why would NAD offer a costly box that features "all the fancy shit" that "actually lowers measured performance", when they don't need to? If their other Eigentakt offerings without the the better internals sounded better, they wouldn't be able to sell them and they wouldn't be so highly praised by respected reviewers.

I can guarantee in a proper blind test setup you cannot hear the difference. The differences now are merely measurable...we are well past audible improvements UNLESS there is a very improper implementation.

Also, they offer it to make money. A lot of people who can spend that price range will do so without knowing the lower cost item will sound identical. That's like asking why some companies sell different tiers of RCA or XLR cables if they all sound the same....

 

[amper42]

No - I simply quote the figures given by a single brand about 2 of its products. Perhaps ask NAD if you really want the answer

If that were the case, why would NAD offer a costly box that features "all the fancy shit" that "actually lowers measured performance", when they don't need to? If their other Eigentakt offerings without the the better internals sounded better, they wouldn't be able to sell them and they wouldn't be so highly praised by respected reviewers.

Do you really believe that?

NAD can't sell a Purifi stereo amp for the price of a Buckeye or Boxem model and make money. So they try to come up with a build using their own design and charge considerably more. It's not audibly better. NAD's reseller network cost structure requires higher prices. You will usually get less for your money with a NAD Purifi design than Buckeye or Boxem but some folks still buy them and that's OK too. What's funny is most times the NAD design measures worse than standard Purifi modules.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

There will be a lot of talk (likely) when a "highly respected" review magazine publishes their review of our amp in which it was compared to an NAD and had no audible difference. Will be interesting what people say then.

 

[amper42]

There will be a lot of talk (likely) when a "highly respected" review magazine publishes their review of our amp in which it was compared to an NAD and had no audible difference. Will be interesting what people say then.

That would be fun. What I find is most "highly respected" Review Magazines don't like to directly compare a name brand against a Buckeye as they are afraid they will lose advertising dollars. It all comes back to conflicts of interest and most editors don't like to print things that might impact their wallet later.

 

[Koeitje]

No - I simply quote the figures given by a single brand about 2 of its products. Perhaps ask NAD if you really want the answer

If that were the case, why would NAD offer a costly box that features "all the fancy shit" that "actually lowers measured performance", when they don't need to? If their other Eigentakt offerings without the the better internals sounded better, they wouldn't be able to sell them and they wouldn't be so highly praised by respected reviewers.

Are you just that naive or just trolling? Its all just marketing, they need to make up a story to justify the higher price. Doesn't matter if all those fancy materials do anything, all that matters is that you believe it.

And what respected reviewers? We have the actual measurements of the M33 and the EVAL boards, from which you can easily see that you lose performance when you use the M33 compared to an EVAL board in combination with a high quality streamer. But that doesn't matter for marketing. It still performs more than good enough and you won't notice it in day to day use. Perhaps you even feel it performs better because you believe the marketing blurb. Gotta love a good placebo.