Portable DAP players all see to be heavy/expensive/not very good. Increasingly they're Android based. For my purposes, any device which provides aptx-hd to drive bluetooth headphones will suffice for when I'm out and about, or at work. At home, though, I want something I can connect to my DAC via USB. Currently I'm using an Honor Play phone and it sounds pretty good to me (using UAPP so as to avoid Android resampling the output). I'm curious how it compares with more expensive devices, and when it eventually dies (after less than 18 months on the market the manufacturer has decided not to humour any more OS upgrades, but that's Android for you) I'll need something else (probably an Android One device as they seem to tick both the "will get updates quickly and for a while" and "inexpensive" boxes). Is the quality of output of PCM data via USB to an external DAC more or less perfect and identical across all Android devices, given that the phone is little more than a FLAC to PCM converter for these purposes, so I should just get whatever phone I can justify paying for, or is there a world of scope for implementation fails here?
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Any plans to review phones as DAC sources?
- Thread starter threni
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There's been a review of an LG phone: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...o-measurement-of-lg-g7-thinq-smartphone.4468/
Depends what people send to @amirm.
Depends what people send to @amirm.
They are a pain to measure because my analyzer can't control them. But still, if people are willing to send them in, I will test them.
FYI I also tested my Samsung S8+ with respect to SINAD (it is in the wide graph).
FYI I also tested my Samsung S8+ with respect to SINAD (it is in the wide graph).
BillG
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Yes, I guess I just want the transport measured, not the internal DAC/amp etc. Just compare a Pi 4 and a few cheap phones etc. I'm a developer, I know little about audio hardware and testing, but it seems to me that testing this would be simple and boring - given a FLAC file, do you get a sensibly formatted PCM stream without glitches or timing problems etc. At this point though it's barely audio at all - just moving bits into the DAC. I'm not going to be able to provide a phone as it's the sort of thing I'd like to know before I buy it (plus I'm in the UK). Is there some way I could test this myself? Instead of connecting the phone to the DAC connect it to another PC and see what data is turning up, do a diff?
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BillG
Major Contributor
Timing would be jitter, and humans are relatively immune to hearing problems in that area unless they're extreme. It's my understanding the Android uses asynchronous mode transfer for audio over USB. Therefore, timing is taken care of by the receiving DAC anyway.
Glitches? If the CPU isn't be pushed to extremes, and is able to fill the buffer(s) on time, you won't hear it in the form of dropouts.
As for the stream itself, as long as the decoder is up to standards (they all have been for decades now) the data will be also.
If you'd like more insight into audio on Android:
https://source.android.com/devices/audio/usb
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GSMArena doesn't measure output power at all. That is really lacking in 99% of smartphones 3.5mm headphone output.
Degru
Active Member
GSMarena measurements are practically useless. Many of the phones they measure seem to exceed the capabilities of the ADC they use. Plus they have no information on the actually important things like power output (with different loads) and OI.
EDIT: Another possible explanation is that they only measure the phones through Android audio system, which is 16 bit only
EDIT: Another possible explanation is that they only measure the phones through Android audio system, which is 16 bit only
Cahudson42
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As a transport, 'almost anything' may be expected to perform reasonably. I have used a $30 Fire 7" with OTG (powered) to a D10 and Liquid Spark and think it's good.
The differences come when using the internal DAC via the 3.5mm. When using an additional amp like the LS, the internal phone anemic output is not an issue. But the DAC SINAD maybe. Note Amir's difference between the LG G7 and Samsung S8..
I recently swapped out the Fire7 and D10 for an LG V20. Using it's 3.5mm (1v output to external) to the LS sounds - to me - just as good as the D10. Plus eliminates one device from the chain.
I only use Amazon Music HD, not Neutron or any other player. When playing 'Ultra HD' AMHD often displays 24/48. If this is correct, I don't know - but if it is, I would think AMHD is also bypassing Android 16bit. I don't know. Does anyone?
The differences come when using the internal DAC via the 3.5mm. When using an additional amp like the LS, the internal phone anemic output is not an issue. But the DAC SINAD maybe. Note Amir's difference between the LG G7 and Samsung S8..
I recently swapped out the Fire7 and D10 for an LG V20. Using it's 3.5mm (1v output to external) to the LS sounds - to me - just as good as the D10. Plus eliminates one device from the chain.
I only use Amazon Music HD, not Neutron or any other player. When playing 'Ultra HD' AMHD often displays 24/48. If this is correct, I don't know - but if it is, I would think AMHD is also bypassing Android 16bit. I don't know. Does anyone?
Get a pi, or similar, control it from the phone, much better solution.
- Thread Starter
- #12
Yes this is what I went with in the end. I've been through a few different pieces of software because some are buggy but ended up with raspbian running VLC.
Asylum Seeker
Senior Member
Yeah...but who really wants to use an LG G7 as a daily driver with all the other great phones out there, like the new Samsung S20 Ultra?
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If you'd like something newer tested feel free to send it to @amirm.
Asylum Seeker
Senior Member
That's gonna be difficult seeing that I am in Indonesia and I don't know where Amir is. Also, Indonesian customs will also likely charge me import duty on my own phone upon return.
What I meant is that for many of us, that a phone has a good DAC inside plus virtually no role in deciding whether to get it. What matters to me in a smartphone is big OLED screen, big battery, good camera, etc. I certainly would not want to use an LG G7 as a daily driver instead of a Huawei Mate 20X or Samsung S4 tablet.
Buddy, I created an account just to say this.
I don't think you noticed, but 90% of the flagships don't have any headphone jacks. Including the S20 Ultra that you mentioned. And like it has been mentioned before, Amir provides very little in-depth subjective review. He likes to do objective reviews, and since he's backlogged it's probably better to follow the GSMArena audio tests as the tests use headphone-attached SNR and crosstalk figures.
Asylum Seeker
Senior Member
Yes, it would be good to see THD vs. Power, and output impedance, though.
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