Any ideas for hidden room treatment?

[wojt]

Hi ASR, as I'll be moving to a new apartment in a few months from now I've started wondering if it would be possible to use some hidden absorption in the living room. Obviously, any visible stuff is out of the question (WAF). My two main ideas were to put some acoustic panels in a bookcase behind the books and also some stuff behind several paintings which will likely make into the room (you know, oil on canvas basically). Do you think it’s entirely stupid or maybe worth considering? Or maybe you have some other more useful ideas?
The room size is ca. 4 by 7 meters. It will have a softish couch, an armchair, book cases and some other furniture but I expect it to be on the lively side.
I'd love to know your opinion.

 

[respice finem]

IMHO it would be good to do some measurements first, to see what problems must be addressed. But generally, improvising works, at least for the highs and mids. Bookshelves can be diffusers, or "diffusorbers". It's not quite on the level of "professional" stuff, but certainly better than nothing. If you're lucky, you can then mitigate via EQ the most common problem = bass modes.

 

[KenMasters]

Hi ASR, as I'll be moving to a new apartment in a few months from now I've started wondering if it would be possible to use some hidden absorption in the living room. Obviously, any visible stuff is out of the question (WAF).

Also a no-go with my wife, but to be honest I'm just as concerned about aesthetics. Thankfully she finds the beechwood scatter plates on GIK panels quite attractive, so I got away with putting those up (and nobody really seems to notice the 10cm deep panels on the back wall under the windows - my wife gave me a pass on those ):

My two main ideas were to put some acoustic panels in a bookcase behind the books...

I've done that with a bookshelf and PET panels. I think placing books side by side in front of the panels would negate much of their effective broadband absorption area though. This is my bookshelf located to the side of my left speaker (you can see it on the left in the above photo). I use that area of the bookshelf for display:

...and also some stuff behind several paintings which will likely make into the room (you know, oil on canvas basically). Do you think it’s entirely stupid or maybe worth considering?

I'm not so sure about oil on canvas, it would also work against the even broadband absorption of frequencies. You can have images printed on acoustically transparent material though. I've attempted to reduce the perceived depth of the large panel behind my seated position by nestling it in a floating frame:

Or maybe you have some other more useful ideas?
The room size is ca. 4 by 7 meters. It will have a softish couch, an armchair, book cases and some other furniture but I expect it to be on the lively side.

There was no way I could get away with putting anything on the ceiling, so I packed my L-shaped couch with Knauf batt:

 

[wojt]

Also a no-go with my wife, but to be honest I'm just as concerned about aesthetics. Thankfully she finds the beechwood scatter plates on GIK panels quite attractive, so I got away with putting those up (and nobody really seems to notice the 10cm deep panels on the back wall under the windows - my wife gave me a pass on those ):

View attachment 502786



I've done that with a bookshelf and PET panels. I think placing books side by side in front of the panels would negate much of their effective broadband absorption area though. This is my bookshelf located to the side of my left speaker (you can see it on the left in the above photo). I use that area of the bookshelf for display:

View attachment 502787



I'm not so sure about oil on canvas, it would also work against the even broadband absorption of frequencies. You can have images printed on acoustically transparent material though. I've attempted to reduce the perceived depth of the large panel behind my seated position by nestling it in a floating frame:

View attachment 502788



There was no way I could get away with putting anything on the ceiling, so I packed my L-shaped couch with Knauf batt:

View attachment 502789

Wow, that's a reply I was hoping for! The decorative panels are unlikely to pass but I could surely experiment with the other methods you use.

 

[Wesseling Audio Lab]

What are the measurements now. What's the goal.
Freedom of speaker placement and seat can be a solution for below 200-300hz and then broadband for all first reflection points. Also with this treatment behind speakers isn't required

Otherwise, a lot of treatment is necessary for an appreciable improvement.

For aesthetics my room will have absorption built in the walls with fabric so the room appears more or less to have normal walls and ceiling

 

[Oddball]

Also a no-go with my wife, but to be honest I'm just as concerned about aesthetics. Thankfully she finds the beechwood scatter plates on GIK panels quite attractive, so I got away with putting those up (and nobody really seems to notice the 10cm deep panels on the back wall under the windows - my wife gave me a pass on those ):

View attachment 502786



I've done that with a bookshelf and PET panels. I think placing books side by side in front of the panels would negate much of their effective broadband absorption area though. This is my bookshelf located to the side of my left speaker (you can see it on the left in the above photo). I use that area of the bookshelf for display:

View attachment 502787



I'm not so sure about oil on canvas, it would also work against the even broadband absorption of frequencies. You can have images printed on acoustically transparent material though. I've attempted to reduce the perceived depth of the large panel behind my seated position by nestling it in a floating frame:

View attachment 502788



There was no way I could get away with putting anything on the ceiling, so I packed my L-shaped couch with Knauf batt:

View attachment 502789

Wow Ken, did not even realize how much thought and effort you have done in the room. Looks great and

Just to note that Ken is also (like many others) using Dirac ART aka active room treatment that helps greatly with sub 150hz issues that are usually not easy to address with passive treatment. Will not work above that so passive treatment in that range is all one has.

 

[OldHvyMec]

How does she feel about buying some nice new curtains? They don't have to be in front of windows, and they are one of the best ways to cut a lot of wall bounce. I've seen them used at shows many times in the better-sounding rooms and in several HT setups through the years. They hide things well, break up the walls appearance, and by the foot or by the yard, they are the best investment for overall treatment, along with thick, strategically placed throw rugs.

I've read some of the comments about how curtains don't do that much. The fact is even thin non pleated drapes have a suttle diffusing effect much like a whispy plant here and there. The thicker the material, layers of material and deapth of pleat makes a big difference too. You can alway open the curtain to liven up the room a bit or to add indirect light if the curtains are darker and the wall is a much lighter color. You can hide pannels behing curtains too.

BTW, the more she picks out, the more she will enjoy. It's all part of the shopping gene that most women are born with.

Good Luck

Regards

 

[wojt]

How does she feel about buying some nice new curtains? They don't have to be in front of windows, and they are one of the best ways to cut a lot of wall bounce. I've seen them used at shows many times in the better-sounding rooms and in several HT setups through the years. They hide things well, break up the walls appearance, and by the foot or by the yard, they are the best investment for overall treatment, along with thick, strategically placed throw rugs.

I've read some of the comments about how curtains don't do that much. The fact is even thin non pleated drapes have a suttle diffusing effect much like a whispy plant here and there. The thicker the material, layers of material and deapth of pleat makes a big difference too. You can alway open the curtain to liven up the room a bit or to add indirect light if the curtains are darker and the wall is a much lighter color. You can hide pannels behing curtains too.

BTW, the more she picks out, the more she will enjoy. It's all part of the shopping gene that most women are born with.

Good Luck

Regards

That's cool. Now I know more not only about treating my room but also treating my wife!

 

[Oddball]

That's cool. Now I know more not only about treating my room but also treating my wife!

A nice handbag, gold necklace or lux vacay can also help . As they say quid pro quo.

 

[EJ3]

How does she feel about buying some nice new curtains? They don't have to be in front of windows, and they are one of the best ways to cut a lot of wall bounce. I've seen them used at shows many times in the better-sounding rooms and in several HT setups through the years. They hide things well, break up the walls appearance, and by the foot or by the yard, they are the best investment for overall treatment, along with thick, strategically placed throw rugs.

I've read some of the comments about how curtains don't do that much. The fact is even thin non pleated drapes have a suttle diffusing effect much like a whispy plant here and there. The thicker the material, layers of material and deapth of pleat makes a big difference too. You can alway open the curtain to liven up the room a bit or to add indirect light if the curtains are darker and the wall is a much lighter color. You can hide pannels behing curtains too.

BTW, the more she picks out, the more she will enjoy. It's all part of the shopping gene that most women are born with.

Good Luck

Regards

Wall hanging tapestries can have an effect, also. If she likes that sort of thing and, of course, gets to pick them out.

 

[EJ3]

A nice handbag, gold necklace or lux vacay can also help . As they say quid pro quo.

And happy wife: happy life.

 

[Chrispy]

Depends where I hid the room?

 

[Mr. Widget]

Hi ASR, as I'll be moving to a new apartment in a few months from now I've started wondering if it would be possible to use some hidden absorption in the living room. Obviously, any visible stuff is out of the question (WAF). My two main ideas were to put some acoustic panels in a bookcase behind the books and also some stuff behind several paintings which will likely make into the room (you know, oil on canvas basically). Do you think it’s entirely stupid or maybe worth considering? Or maybe you have some other more useful ideas?
The room size is ca. 4 by 7 meters. It will have a softish couch, an armchair, book cases and some other furniture but I expect it to be on the lively side.
I'd love to know your opinion.

My HT is about the same size as your room. I use bookcases, curtains, a moderately thick carpet, and well placed "art" to tame the room.
It worked out well.

 

[wojt]

My HT is about the same size as your room. I use bookcases, curtains, a moderately thick carpet, and well placed "art" to tame the room.
It worked out well.

View attachment 504571View attachment 504572

Nice room!

 

[voodooless]

Dirac ART

 

[wojt]

Dirac ART

Does work with MiniDSP Flex?

 

[Mr. Widget]

Does work with MiniDSP Flex?

Unfortunately no, or at least not yet.
Currently it is available in Marantz and Denon Surround processors and AVRs, and of course Storm surround processors.

It along with all room correction will not handle all aspects of room acoustics. It works on room modes and nodes which goes a long way to cleaning up the bass and lower mids, but you are still on your own for higher frequency issues.

 

[Oddball]

Unfortunately no, or at least not yet.
Currently it is available in Marantz and Denon Surround processors and AVRs, and of course Storm surround processors.

It along with all room correction will not handle all aspects of room acoustics. It works on room modes and nodes which goes a long way to cleaning up the bass and lower mids, but you are still on your own for higher frequency issues.

Just to add - as of recent Monoprice HTP-1 and new Mini DSP Tide 16 processors also support ART. Good to see more brands adopting ART.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Just to add - as of recent Monoprice HTP-1 and new Mini DSP Tide 16 processors also support ART. Good to see more brands adopting ART.

Cool, didn't know that.

Also for those interested in ART and who are on a tight budget, adding the license is hundreds of dollars which is in addition to buying the hardware.

 

[voodooless]

adding the license is hundreds of dollars

Room treatment can also easily be at least as much, especially if you want to hide it in a nice way.

It’s a trade off that one has to make. For sure, room treatment can’t do everything ART does, and the same goes for the other way around.