Any dates yet on Marantz AV30 release?

[peng]

So not sure what to disagree with - without seeing schematics and just using common sense. Looks like we all agree but then not?

Not disagreeing with you, the AV10, while still shares the design with the C30 to some extent, it is very different than the C30 in many ways, so I definitely will not say the same apply to the comparison between the 7705, 7706 and very likely the AV30 vs C40.

The more important news is that AV30 is obsolete based on features compared to HTP-1. That is the point to be discussed.

I am not familiar with the HTP-1 but what makes the AV30 obsolete?

 

[Oddball]

Not disagreeing with you, the AV10, while still shares the design with the C30 to some extent, it is very different than the C30 in many ways, so I definitely will not say the same apply to the comparison between the 7705, 7706 and very likely the AV30 vs C40.

I am not familiar with the HTP-1 but what makes the AV30 obsolete?

Take a look at the ART thread for more details, but as it is you Mr. Peng, will go out of my way to summarize:

1. D&M limits number of ART filters to 94 or 96 depending on the model. HTP-1 does not. There was discussion about how far 94 takes you but inconclusive. I max my filters on AV10 at 94 but theoretically there is room for further support. How that would translate into audible benefits is hard to say, but more filters is intuitively better.

2. HTP-1 has tone controls after Dirac and has PEQ before Dirac - much like Storm. Again, not speaking of audible benefits but features.

3. HTP-1 has support for remapping the channels so you can relatively easily take measurements of your Atmos as opposed to D&M where you do need to go through some extended procedures.

4. HTP-1 has support for BEQ which I don't use but many like. So just additional feature that is usefull.

With all that - if I was buying an new AVP, I would likely opt to HTP-1. HTP-1 had a long and troubled history, but apparently it is now rock solid. @TimoJ can probably pitch in to prove me wrong as he was the beta tester on ART and had HTP-1 since the elder days. HTP-1 has 16 channel limit.

HTP-1 at $4K is a great value as it seems.

 

[EngineerNate]

HTP-1 weakness is HDMI 2.1 support (lack thereof) but IMO that really only matters if you’re gaming, in which case use eARC to send audio to your system.

For movies I don’t ever want more than 60 frames anyway

 

[Onetrack97]

So, does the Monolith HTP-1 sound better than an AV10 or AV20?

 

[Oddball]

So, does the Monolith HTP-1 sound better than an AV10 or AV20?

What a question. It does not sound better, but has more options.

If that makes it sound better for your needs that it would sound better. Or if you don't need additional options then it would not.

This is really granular stuff so you would need to understand every single point of distinction. I don't think that it would sound better in my setup, but then I still don't have tone controls after Dirac or BEQ. Not that I am missing them greatly but just don't have them.

 

[EngineerNate]

SINAD on the three is within a couple dB, with the same Dirac calibrations (or none at all) you’d likely to be unable to blind AVB them.

As an HTP-1 owner… the Marantz are prettier.

 

[jhaider]

Well, HTP-1 might be a better value at this channel count with it's additional features. Beyond 16 channels (including subs) Marantz has at least the channel count advantage.

Would be great to have HTP-2 with more channels and assignable channels like dual centers, dual surrounds, etc.

To be clear, I wasn't intending to compare to HTP-1, though I can understand why one would assume so. That is not fair because they are in different leagues regardless of price, for the reasons you spell out above.

I was actually comparing to historical pricing. My old AV7703 was $2200 MSRP ca. 2017. According to the inflation calculator hosted by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics (enjoy access government data while we still have it...) $2200 in May 2017 is the equivalent of 2,913 trumpbucks. (If you feel poorer now when you think about that, you're not alone!) So a $3000 MSRP in context actually seems within the bounds of reasonable for this box. But a $4k MSRP is insane. If ART were included in that...ok. But it's not. The included room correction is exactly the same, though the new ones do have the Dirac upgrade possibility.

I guess in D+M's defense, Samsung has gone wacky with pricing too, with a posted $9k MSRP for the JBL SDP58. That is a great way to ensure that fewer and fewer people are able to enjoy immersive systems, alas.

 

[EWL5]

The miniDSP Tide16 has entered the fray to muddy the waters:

• includes all Dirac licenses (including ART)
• 16 channels
• XLR outputs
• $3500

I'm not a fan of the HDMI input count (only 3) but this may work for some setups and is the cheapest processor to go all the way to ART!

miniDSP Tide16 - Holy Grail with 16 Channel Atmos/DTS:X, high SINAD

Just received the newsletter, sounds like the one to rule them all (rather expansive at 3500 USD, but ok) https://www.minidsp.com/products/ht-series/tide16 Hardware Features Processor: Quad Core ARM processor / 1.8GHz HDMI 2.0 + EARC/ARC interface (3x1) Included License: Dirac Live® 3.x full...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Oddball]

The miniDSP Tide16 has entered the fray to muddy the waters:

• includes all Dirac licenses (including ART)
• 16 channels
• XLR outputs
• $3500

I'm not a fan of the HDMI input count (only 3) but this may work for some setups and is the cheapest processor to go all the way to ART!

miniDSP Tide16 - Holy Grail with 16 Channel Atmos/DTS:X, high SINAD

Just received the newsletter, sounds like the one to rule them all (rather expansive at 3500 USD, but ok) https://www.minidsp.com/products/ht-series/tide16 Hardware Features Processor: Quad Core ARM processor / 1.8GHz HDMI 2.0 + EARC/ARC interface (3x1) Included License: Dirac Live® 3.x full...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Great to see competition rolling in. The more the merrier.

 

[Onetrack97]

If the AV30 had all of the inputs, outputs, and features that you wanted, would you buy the AV30, or upgrade to the AV20 for perceived/hopeful improvement in sound quality and/or surround sound experience?

$2000 difference goes a long way towards amplifiers.

 

[masterhw]

If the AV30 had all of the inputs, outputs, and features that you wanted, would you buy the AV30, or upgrade to the AV20 for perceived/hopeful improvement in sound quality and/or surround sound experience?

$2000 difference goes a long way towards amplifiers.

AV 30 without a doubt. Or the new MiniDSP Tide16.

 

[Oddball]

If the AV30 had all of the inputs, outputs, and features that you wanted, would you buy the AV30, or upgrade to the AV20 for perceived/hopeful improvement in sound quality and/or surround sound experience?

$2000 difference goes a long way towards amplifiers.

AV30 over AV20 for sure, but I'd probably go HTP-1 if price is similar due to additional features. $4K listed price for AV30 will likely mean that street price will soon be lower. I got my AV10 at a significant discount year after release, albeit as part of larger purchase from the same dealer.

 

[Onetrack97]

AV 30 without a doubt. Or the new MiniDSP Tide16.

Oh my, I’m a MiniDSP user & fan. That new product looks interesting. I don’t know if I would want to be an early adopter. Perhaps they will send evaluation units out for review.

Dirac ART is included!

 

[GL1zdA]

Here, in Poland, the AV 30 is 17.499 PLN (~4.800 USD) and Cinema 30 is 18.999 PLN (~5.250 USD). Doesn't sound like a great deal, at least not when I compare the spec.

Monoprice has no EU dealers, so it's out of question for me. EU dealers also don't have yet the Tide16, I'm reluctant to buy it directly from MiniDSP, not sure how they after sales support works here. The Tide16 also maxes out at HDMI 2.0a.

 

[ban25]

Oh my, I’m a MiniDSP user & fan. That new product looks interesting. I don’t know if I would want to be an early adopter. Perhaps they will send evaluation units out for review.

Dirac ART is included!

That box has a 13 year old HDMI implementation. Limited to 18 Gbps, which makes it worthless for anybody who wants to run 4K120 on PS5, Xbox, Steam Machine, etc. Same issue with the Monoprice processor.

 

[EngineerNate]

Fortunately there's a whole lot of us who aren't interested in gaming.

 

[masterhw]

That box has a 13 year old HDMI implementation. Limited to 18 Gbps, which makes it worthless for anybody who wants to run 4K120 on PS5, Xbox, Steam Machine, etc. Same issue with the Monoprice processor.

That’s not entirely accurate, it has HDMI 2.1 EARC and VRR. it’s just 4k60 bandwidth, which if you need more you can likely get by plugging directly into your TV and employing EARC.

 

[GL1zdA]

That’s not entirely accurate, it has HDMI 2.1 EARC and VRR. it’s just 4k60 bandwidth, which if you need more you can likely get by plugging directly into your TV and employing EARC.

This won't work for me because I want the AVP to serve as a signal source for a projector, but I get, that this is not a common scenario.

If I had a TV, then another issue might be playing Blu-Ray audio discs. Atmos reissues of some classic albums are the primary reason I'm considering going for multichannel audio in the first place. Sure, you can attach the Blu-Ray to the AVP, the PS5 to the TV, but at $4k I really wouldn't want something that will require switching sources on two devices, especially if I'm not the only user of such a setup.

I would really like to know what's the cost for the manufacturer for going to 48 Gbps. There's already HDMI 2.2 with 96 Gbps bandwidth.

 

[Oddball]

This won't work for me because I want the AVP to serve as a signal source for a projector, but I get, that this is not a common scenario.

If I had a TV, then another issue might be playing Blu-Ray audio discs. Atmos reissues of some classic albums are the primary reason I'm considering going for multichannel audio in the first place. Sure, you can attach the Blu-Ray to the AVP, the PS5 to the TV, but at $4k I really wouldn't want something that will require switching sources on two devices, especially if I'm not the only user of such a setup.

I would really like to know what's the cost for the manufacturer for going to 48 Gbps. There's already HDMI 2.2 with 96 Gbps bandwidth.

They just take their sweet time and sure 2.2 will cost us all pretty penny even if most of us probably don't need it - me to be more precise. It is not how much it is going to cost them - but rather how much they will sell it for. New gen of products? Probably 20% or more over current gen.

 

[ban25]

I've been traveling all month, so I haven't had a chance to order until now, but I'm about to pre-order.

I also pulled the trigger on a Buckeye NCx252MP, which will drive the surround and Atmos speakers apart from my mains. Expected 2 week build time, so maybe by the end of the month, I'll be putting everything together.