Any dates yet on Marantz AV30 release?

[ban25]

Right, and they could have made a Denon AV6800 as a lower end alternative to the AV10 and AV20, by not including the power amps, beef up the PS for the preamp dac, and add balanced I/Os but of course they wouldn't do that because they believe the AV30 would let them maximize profits, by leveraging Marantz fans faith, who love the aesthetic, forcing them to pay the HDAMs that have questionable benefits and saving the costs for implementing the 2 additional preamp/dac channels.

Yeah, I would want an upgrade from my current system, which would mean either an AV30 or AV20, in order to get full balanced I/O and DL ART. I will probably add a Buckeye NCORE amp to cover the channels currently driven by my AVR.

 

[Oddball]

I would not lose sleep over XLR outputs especially if short runs like 2 m. Power amps are also not as hot as they used to be. ART uses resources smartly so could be better case than before.

 

[peng]

Yeah, I would want an upgrade from my current system, which would mean either an AV30 or AV20, in order to get full balanced I/O and DL ART. I will probably add a Buckeye NCORE amp to cover the channels currently driven by my AVR.

I am not sure what you meant by full balanced, if you meant "a design where the signal path remains balanced throughout the entire device, from the moment it enters to the moment it exits." then the AV10 will not be the one. There were/are very few such AV devices, the ancient Denon AVP-A1HD was the only one in the world at the time, according to Gene. If by "all", you just mean balanced I/O for all channels (19 for the AV10, 15 for the AV30) then no problem. Edit: Actually only 4 balanced inputs not all channels.

Marantz never did pick up on the "fully/or truly" balanced thing, knowing that it wouldn't offer practical/audible advantages and would cost a lot more, just take a look of the increased parts count for the DAC signal path alone:

Denon AVP-A1HDCI AV Processor Review

Review: The Denon AVP-A1HDCI AV processor is packed with the latest HD audio and HDMI connectivity and THX Ultra2 Certification. It supports 12 channels of audio and is a technological masterpiece.

www.audioholics.com

 

[ban25]

I am not sure what you meant by full balanced, if you meant "a design where the signal path remains balanced throughout the entire device, from the moment it enters to the moment it exits." then the AV10 will not be the one. There were/are very few such AV devices, the ancient Denon AVP-A1HD was the only one in the world at the time, according to Gene. If by "all", you just mean balanced I/O for all channels (19 for the AV10, 15 for the AV30) then no problem.

Marantz never did pick up on the "fully/or truly" balanced thing, knowing that it wouldn't offer practical/audible advantages and would cost a lot more, just take a look of the increased parts count for the DAC signal path alone:

Denon AVP-A1HDCI AV Processor Review

Review: The Denon AVP-A1HDCI AV processor is packed with the latest HD audio and HDMI connectivity and THX Ultra2 Certification. It supports 12 channels of audio and is a technological masterpiece.

www.audioholics.com

View attachment 494275

Not talking about end-to-end balanced, by "full", I mean a full set of XLR I/O for every channel. Currently, I have 5 XLR out and 2 in, which I use.

 

[ban25]

I would not lose sleep over XLR outputs especially if short runs like 2 m. Power amps are also not as hot as they used to be. ART uses resources smartly so could be better case than before.

For me, it's essential to avoid ground loops between all of my equipment. Somebody could give me an A1H for free and I would throw it in the garbage.

 

[Everett T]

I would not lose sleep over XLR outputs especially if short runs like 2 m. Power amps are also not as hot as they used to be. ART uses resources smartly so could be better case than before.

I guess my only issue *might* be the output voltage, but that's a huge variable for many.

 

[peng]

Not talking about end-to-end balanced, by "full", I mean a full set of XLR I/O for every channel. Currently, I have 5 XLR out and 2 in, which I use.

That's what I thought anyway, thanks for confirming. Surely there are balanced outputs for every channel, but I am sure you know there are only balanced inputs for the front 2 channels, like the Denon A1H. Practically speaking that's all people need nowadays anyway. For multichannel, HDMI is the only connection that makes sense. Still, that's better than others like the Anthem AVM90 that has no balanced inputs at all.

 

[peng]

For me, it's essential to avoid ground loops between all of my equipment. Somebody could give me an A1H for free and I would throw it in the garbage.

I think you won't have to consider that possibility, no one would give you an A1H because they can sell it to me for up to $1,000. I don't worry about ground loop, never say never, but I have had so many AVRs that have RCAs only and never had ground loop issues. Without ground loop, RCA connections often measured better (SINAD, SNR) on test benches. Even without ground loop issues, I would not hesitate to forgo a few dB better SINAD and still use XLRs, just like those connections better.

 

[Oddball]

I think you won't have to consider that possibility, no one would give you an A1H because they can sell it to me for up to $1,000. I don't worry about ground loop, never say never, but I have had so many AVRs that have RCAs only and never had ground loop issues. Without ground loop, RCA connections often measured better (SINAD, SNR) on test benches. Even without ground loop issues, I would not hesitate to forgo a few dB better SINAD and still use XLRs, just like those connections better.

Ground loop issues are nasty and difficult to eradicate. But I had no issues at all in two iterations of my current setup. My 10 channels are going through 1-2m RCA from AV 10 as amps are RCA only. They sing as they are supposed to. Can't really tell if it would be better with XLR as that would require new amps.

 

[Oddball]

I guess my only issue *might* be the output voltage, but that's a huge variable for many.

Right, gain matching is important. But on the other hand so many amps happy with 2V max output from RCA. One should check though as it is a real issue.

 

[Everett T]

Right, gain matching is important. But on the other hand so many amps happy with 2V max output from RCA. One should check though as it is a real issue.

Agreed, for me me it wouldn't be an issue as it's part of the purchases I make and should be for anyone using external amps, but we know how that goes.

 

[ban25]

Ground loop issues are nasty and difficult to eradicate. But I had no issues at all in two iterations of my current setup. My 10 channels are going through 1-2m RCA from AV 10 as amps are RCA only. They sing as they are supposed to. Can't really tell if it would be better with XLR as that would require new amps.

Yeah I have two panels because of the solar installation and that's before accounting for the 19th century municipal power grid. So I always get 60 Hz ground loop buzz between components without balanced interconnects.

 

[kawauso]

For me, it's essential to avoid ground loops between all of my equipment. Somebody could give me an A1H for free and I would throw it in the garbage.

Please sell me your A1H for 4000 dollars!
The A1H is excellent, especially if you plan to use the speaker outputs.
The speaker outputs allow very flexible routing, and when combined with the fixed pre-outs, you can build quite a complex routing setup.
In my system, the A1H is absolutely indispensable.

I also expected it to run hotter, but it actually doesn’t get that warm.
Under normal conditions, it’s not nearly hot enough to fry an egg.

Since it only has four XLR outputs, it might be a bit limited for your needs, ban25.
Still, you could assign two XLRs to the LR external amplifier and two to the subwoofers.
For the remaining channels, you could simply use the A1H’s speaker outputs.

The KEF subwoofers seem to lack XLR inputs.
Are you okay using RCA without getting hum noise?
If RCA works for your subs, another option would be sending LCR to the external amp via XLR.

 

[kawauso]

Right now, I’m routing five channels from the A1H into the NCx500 to drive five Reference 1 Meta speakers,
and I’m using the A1H’s internal speaker outputs to drive twelve LS50 Metas.
However, using the NCx500 for the surround channels feels a bit wasteful,
so I’m planning to switch those channels back to the A1H’s internal amps and move the NCx500 to another room.

When I convert RCA to XLR with a cable and feed it into the NCx500,
there is a very slight amount of noise being amplified from somewhere, which I can hear when I get close to the speakers.
By using the A1H’s internal amplifier instead, that issue disappears.

 

[Vincentponcet]

Right now, I’m routing five channels from the A1H into the NCx500 to drive five Reference 1 Meta speakers,
and I’m using the A1H’s internal speaker outputs to drive twelve LS50 Metas.
However, using the NCx500 for the surround channels feels a bit wasteful,
so I’m planning to switch those channels back to the A1H’s internal amps and move the NCx500 to another room.

When I convert RCA to XLR with a cable and feed it into the NCx500,
there is a very slight amount of noise being amplified from somewhere, which I can hear when I get close to the speakers.
By using the A1H’s internal amplifier instead, that issue disappears.

I have a x3700h with Apollon NCX500 5 channels, so connected with RCA.
I had a ground loop noise.
I contacted the manufacturer.
I said to remove a jumper on the buffer cards, so make it "float" ground and to connect the ground of the AVR to the earth of the power plug.
It eliminated the ground loop noise.
I just bought an x6800h, will see.

 

[kawauso]

I have a x3700h with Apollon NCX500 5 channels, so connected with RCA.
I had a ground loop noise.
I contacted the manufacturer.
I said to remove a jumper on the buffer cards, so make it "float" ground and to connect the ground of the AVR to the earth of the power plug.
It eliminated the ground loop noise.
I just bought an x6800h, will see.

I also had severe ground-loop noise at first and panicked, but once I floated the ground the noise disappeared.
The difference in noise between XLR and RCA is minimal.
Nice purchase on the X6800H!
Are you planning to use ART?

 

[Vincentponcet]

I also had severe ground-loop noise at first and panicked, but once I floated the ground the noise disappeared.
The difference in noise between XLR and RCA is minimal.
Nice purchase on the X6800H!
Are you planning to use ART?

For Black Friday, you get the full dirac suite (live + bass control + art) for free with a new buy of x6800 and above units. This was part of my decision to buy it.

 

[kawauso]

For Black Friday, you get the full dirac suite (live + donc + art) for free with a new buy of x6800 and above units. This was part of my decision to buy it.

That’s perfect. Getting the full Dirac suite for free is a great deal.
If you end up liking ART, please share your impressions in the ART thread.

 

[TheAVInsider]

Guess who
lol

 

[Vincentponcet]

Guess who
lol
View attachment 495481View attachment 495482

300W for 6 channels is not a lot.
For the pre, so it is confirmed that the same dac chips as the x6800h ?