Any alternatives to a Lyngdorf TDIA?

[Deleted member 89782]

I currently have a Lyngdorf TDIA 2170 with a BS Node Nano and my TV running into it digitally. Anything else wouldn‘t make any sense as the TDIA would convert analogue signals back to digital anyway due to its working concept. So far so good and I am perfectly happy as it is.

But I wonder what I should do if I ever wanted to change anything. I‘m intrigued by the way the TDIA works. There’s no analogue signal anywhere until it hits the speaker outputs. Sorry for the non-technical terminology, I not a techie, just a very interested layman, always trying to learn more than I really understand.

Are there any equivalents to the Lyngdorf concept? I don‘t want to have to worry about the quality of the DAC of a connected component, but would prefer to leave the D/A conversion up to amp. I know there are quite lot of brilliant class D amps with excelent DACs ot there, but non of them follow the Lyngdorf principle as far as I know.

 

[NTK]

It is a myth that "digital amplifiers" are the best because the analog to digital conversion happens at the final power amplification stage.

Why? One reason is to obtain good performance, you'll need to use feedback. And the correct place to get the feedback signal is at the speaker output, common called PFFB for post filter feedback for class-D amps. Since at the speaker output the signal is entirely analog, for a "power DAC", that means the feedback signal has to be converted back into digital, and you are trading a DAC for an ADC. That sort of defeats the whole purpose, and this is the route the Axign amplifier controller takes.

This Audioholics article by Bruno Putzeys gives further details. Quoting from the article:

​

One should ask the question: would any D/A converter designer in his right mind build a DAC using power components? Probably not. Then how about the old argument that digital-to-the-end is best? Well, I should think the D/A barrier is best put precisely where it allows the whole signal chain to perform at its best and why should we believe that this is necessarily right at the end? Quite obviously the concept of a digital class D amplifier was dreamt up by DSP folks who presumed that the signal should be kept out of the big bad analog world as long as possible, at the same time expecting the power stage, power supply and filter (all highly analog in nature) to perform flawlessly.​

 

[PaulF2020]

I wonder id there any other alternatives in terms of functionality to Lyngdorf TDIA devices?
The problem is that not many devices have DSP capable outputs for 2 subs. The only other one I found is minds HD power and flex + power amps.

 

[TheKoC]

I wonder id there any other alternatives in terms of functionality to Lyngdorf TDIA devices?
The problem is that not many devices have DSP capable outputs for 2 subs. The only other one I found is minds HD power and flex + power amps.

NAD M10 and M33 have 2 subs out and Dirac Live. The M33 V2 und M10 V3 supposedly will get Dirac DLBC too, but I would wait until that's actually availabe and proven to work, if that is important.
Other than that, a decent AVR would also be an Alternative, and often at a better price/value than Stereo-Amps, even if pure measurements of DAC and amplification might not be as good.

 

[PaulF2020]

NAD M10 and M33 have 2 subs out and Dirac Live. The M33 V2 und M10 V3 supposedly will get Dirac DLBC too, but I would wait until that's actually availabe and proven to work, if that is important.
Other than that, a decent AVR would also be an Alternative, and often at a better price/value than Stereo-Amps, even if pure measurements of DAC and amplification might not be as good.

Thanks, NAD is interesting, however considering M10 price, it doesn't make any sense to get it over Lyngdorf it seems.
AVR options is interesing, I guess the only problem with that is they all full sized components, quite large and bukly

 

[TheKoC]

Thanks, NAD is interesting, however considering M10 price, it doesn't make any sense to get it over Lyngdorf it seems.
AVR options is interesing, I guess the only problem with that is they all full sized components, quite large and bukly

The M10 is a bit cheaper than the TDAI2170, at least here. Performance-wise I wouldnt expect a big difference, RoomPerfect vs. Dirac Live would be the biggest difference-maker, but that would need to be tested in your specific room. AVRs are chunky yes, they will not fit in every environment well.

 

[kandamrgam]

See this thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-of-power-dacs-full-digital-amplifiers.61426/

Look for technologies like JENO engine, Zetex Direct Digital, NAD DirectDigital, CSR DDFA (CSR later acquired by Qualcomm), Sony S-Master HX etc.

 

[kandamrgam]

It is a myth that "digital amplifiers" are the best because the analog to digital conversion happens at the final power amplification stage.

Why? One reason is to obtain good performance, you'll need to use feedback. And the correct place to get the feedback signal is at the speaker output, common called PFFB for post filter feedback for class-D amps. Since at the speaker output the signal is entirely analog, for a "power DAC", that means the feedback signal has to be converted back into digital, and you are trading a DAC for an ADC. That sort of defeats the whole purpose, and this is the route the Axign amplifier controller takes.

This Audioholics article by Bruno Putzeys gives further details. Quoting from the article:

​

One should ask the question: would any D/A converter designer in his right mind build a DAC using power components? Probably not. Then how about the old argument that digital-to-the-end is best? Well, I should think the D/A barrier is best put precisely where it allows the whole signal chain to perform at its best and why should we believe that this is necessarily right at the end? Quite obviously the concept of a digital class D amplifier was dreamt up by DSP folks who presumed that the signal should be kept out of the big bad analog world as long as possible, at the same time expecting the power stage, power supply and filter (all highly analog in nature) to perform flawlessly.​

This is also what Qualcomm's DDFA does it looks like: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...m-ddfa-direct-digital-feedback-amplifier.9413

 

[PaulF2020]

The M10 is a bit cheaper than the TDAI2170, at least here. Performance-wise I wouldnt expect a big difference, RoomPerfect vs. Dirac Live would be the biggest difference-maker, but that would need to be tested in your specific room. AVRs are chunky yes, they will not fit in every environment well.

I pulled the trigger on almost half price used 1120 from eBay. We'll see how it goes, I think NAD is quite overpriced for what it is.