Anthem to introduce new models!

[Duraace9sp]

Absolutely. Why I won’t buy a GM, Ford or Chrysler ever again. Went that route and got burned and I’m never looking back. And I’m going back between 20 and 35 years for them, so 15 is just getting started.


So what has changed with Anthem? WiFi that won’t connect without a specific type of phone, how is that different than a cable adapter.

It also seems as though it lacks analog pass through, something that Denon, Yamaha, etc. have on even there cheapest AVR’s.

Last difference, ASR hasn’t tested it yet, and I will buy NOTHING until I see those results. Post #241 is interesting: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/official-anthem-avm-70-90-owners-thread.3181385/page-13

please clarify the comment “no analog pass through”. I would assume that is not correct as all the current brands (demon/Yamaha/marantz/arcam/htp1) mid to high end products include this as does my 12+ year old D2V?
is that speculation or info I missed?

thanks!

 

[Vasr]

I think this is getting a bit into the Crab Bucket territory. Everybody has brand biases but it is not necessary to give misleading information about the brand one doesn't prefer. There are certainly issues with the launch of this product as I have described earlier. It is better to understand the issue exactly without misleading information to put a brand down. Then people can make informed decisions.

There will always be pros and cons between brands and devices. For example, the new Anthem line appears to provide a more sophisticated virtual input and profile selection for different settings than current competitors.

I would certainly not recommend it now with the launch issues and no official ARC Genesis but may turn out to be a nice options a few months down the road. There are not many options in this price range for a pre/pro. Perhaps the calculation for the full AVR might be different given the much larger choices there. I am only following the pre/pro owner experience with common functionality with the AVRs.

WiFi that won’t connect without a specific type of phone, how is that different than a cable adapter.

The above is not correct. There is no specific type of phone required. Just as, for example, Paradigm PW streamer WiFi can be configured via PlayFi app only, it appears the new AVM WiFi can only be configured by using the Google Home app (on Android or iOS phones or tablets). Nothing to do with any specific type of phone. One may indeed quibble about this method of configuring WiFi rather than directly via the device settings. This is a boot strapping problem with new systems that come with most settings now done with a Web UI which of course requires the device to be connected to the network first.

It also seems as though it lacks analog pass through, something that Denon, Yamaha, etc. have on even there cheapest AVR’s.

Just to clarify, this option seems to be available on the AVM Pre/Pros but not on the MRX AVRs. Whether the latter is a firmware setting issue or it simply not being available as a design decision ever remains to be seen. It may be a show stopper or not depending on one's use case and the need to listen to analog sources without using any crossover, DSP or Room EQ (which would require digitization on any AVR).

Post #241 is interesting: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/official-anthem-avm-70-90-owners-thread.3181385/page-13

Did you read #352? Just for completeness...
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/official-anthem-avm-70-90-owners-thread.3181385/post-60471201
The problem seems to be in the use of ARC (beta version not officially available for the new line) at a sufficiently high volume setting. To me, it looks like some kind of digital clipping when ARC room eq is engaged and input is played at sufficiently high volume. This might be why the ARC Genesis is not yet available for the new line so it can be fixed to provide the proper attenuation before any boosts or to limit the volume when ARC is applied. But one would have to wait for the official release of the ARC Genesis software to see if this is a problem. Again, it points to a fumbled launch than any intrinsic problem with the device that will persist.

No need to make excuses for a fumbled launch just as there is no need to smear a device/brand without justification because of one's preferences for a brand. Let people make fully informed choices. People can certainly have preferences for themselves without being crabs.

This is why I recommend people reading the AVSForum ownership thread than rely on third-hand information here with selective quotes.

 

[ex audiophile]

I think this is getting a bit into the Crab Bucket territory. Everybody has brand biases but it is not necessary to give misleading information about the brand one doesn't prefer. There are certainly issues with the launch of this product as I have described earlier. It is better to understand the issue exactly without misleading information to put a brand down. Then people can make informed decisions.

There will always be pros and cons between brands and devices. For example, the new Anthem line appears to provide a more sophisticated virtual input and profile selection for different settings than current competitors.

I would certainly not recommend it now with the launch issues and no official ARC Genesis but may turn out to be a nice options a few months down the road. There are not many options in this price range for a pre/pro. Perhaps the calculation for the full AVR might be different given the much larger choices there. I am only following the pre/pro owner experience with common functionality with the AVRs.


The above is not correct. There is no specific type of phone required. Just as, for example, Paradigm PW streamer WiFi can be configured via PlayFi app only, it appears the new AVM WiFi can only be configured by using the Google Home app (on Android or iOS phones or tablets). Nothing to do with any specific type of phone. One may indeed quibble about this method of configuring WiFi rather than directly via the device settings. This is a boot strapping problem with new systems that come with most settings now done with a Web UI which of course requires the device to be connected to the network first.


Just to clarify, this option seems to be available on the AVM Pre/Pros but not on the MRX AVRs. Whether the latter is a firmware setting issue or it simply not being available as a design decision ever remains to be seen. It may be a show stopper or not depending on one's use case and the need to listen to analog sources without using any crossover, DSP or Room EQ (which would require digitization on any AVR).


Did you read #352? Just for completeness...
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/official-anthem-avm-70-90-owners-thread.3181385/post-60471201
The problem seems to be in the use of ARC (beta version not officially available for the new line) at a sufficiently high volume setting. To me, it looks like some kind of digital clipping when ARC room eq is engaged and input is played at sufficiently high volume. This might be why the ARC Genesis is not yet available for the new line so it can be fixed to provide the proper attenuation before any boosts or to limit the volume when ARC is applied. But one would have to wait for the official release of the ARC Genesis software to see if this is a problem. Again, it points to a fumbled launch than any intrinsic problem with the device that will persist.

No need to make excuses for a fumbled launch just as there is no need to smear a device/brand without justification because of one's preferences for a brand. Let people make fully informed choices. People can certainly have preferences for themselves without being crabs.

This is why I recommend people reading the AVSForum ownership thread than rely on third-hand information here with selective quotes.

I think if you could describe precisely how this "web interface" works it would help clarify the issue. It appears that the Anthem unit must have an internet connection in order to make changes but from there I'm not clear how it works. The screen size of our phones is not sufficient so does it require a laptop for easy use? Can u use your TV if it has an internet connection? I downloaded the owners manual and could not find any detail re the use of the web interface.

 

[Vasr]

I think if you could describe precisely how this "web interface" works it would help clarify the issue. It appears that the Anthem unit must have an internet connection in order to make changes but from there I'm not clear how it works. The screen size of our phones is not sufficient so does it require a laptop for easy use? Can u use your TV if it has an internet connection? I downloaded the owners manual and could not find any detail re the use of the web interface.

Suggest you ask in the owner's forum at avsforum.com for details. The general concept of a WebUI is that you connect the device to the network first which gives it an IP address. Ethernet is the easiest since it automatically configures itself if you have a DHCP server in your router (most common in households by default). You point a web browser on a phone/tablet/computer connected to the same local network to that IP address as the URL and you will get the setting interface for that unit. If the WebUI is written properly, it will provide a capable mobile interface within the limited real estate just like this forum for example or any web site designed for both computers and mobile devices.

The current manual is one great example of how botched this launch has been. They just did a lot of cut and paste from the previous generation manuals which means things that were in the previous generation that is not in the new generation is still included and things that are new aren't described well if at all.

Compared to this the support, response and updating of the HTP-1 looks like day and night. The owner's thread for the HTP-1 has a monolith support guy collecting bug reports, making a list of current issues, providing beta updates, etc.

These devices are no longer like the old AVRs that were primarily hardware with a small amount of firmware thrown in. Like electric vehicles these are driven by substantial amount of software within them and because of the huge feature set, the number of cross-interactions and edge cases (e.g., a bug that manifests when you have 4 subs with content that is doing synthesized Dolby or DTS surround and you have disabled some channels, crossovers for some but not all speakers and not otherwise or some other such edge cases) all from the software.

It is as complicated as writing a full-featured app and these shops have never been experts in writing software.

 

[ex audiophile]

Suggest you ask in the owner's forum at avsforum.com for details. The general concept of a WebUI is that you connect the device to the network first which gives it an IP address. Ethernet is the easiest since it automatically configures itself if you have a DHCP server in your router (most common in households by default). You point a web browser on a phone/tablet/computer connected to the same local network to that IP address as the URL and you will get the setting interface for that unit. If the WebUI is written properly, it will provide a capable mobile interface within the limited real estate just like this forum for example or any web site designed for both computers and mobile devices.

The current manual is one great example of how botched this launch has been. They just did a lot of cut and paste from the previous generation manuals which means things that were in the previous generation that is not in the new generation is still included and things that are new aren't described well if at all.

Compared to this the support, response and updating of the HTP-1 looks like day and night. The owner's thread for the HTP-1 has a monolith support guy collecting bug reports, making a list of current issues, providing beta updates, etc.

These devices are no longer like the old AVRs that were primarily hardware with a small amount of firmware thrown in. Like electric vehicles these are driven by substantial amount of software within them and because of the huge feature set, the number of cross-interactions and edge cases (e.g., a bug that manifests when you have 4 subs with content that is doing synthesized Dolby or DTS surround and you have disabled some channels, crossovers for some but not all speakers and not otherwise or some other such edge cases) all from the software.

It is as complicated as writing a full-featured app and these shops have never been experts in writing software.

I'll check it out at AVS and if I get a clear answer I'll share here. thanks

 

[muslhead]

Suggest you ask in the owner's forum at avsforum.com for details. The general concept of a WebUI is that you connect the device to the network first which gives it an IP address. Ethernet is the easiest since it automatically configures itself if you have a DHCP server in your router (most common in households by default). You point a web browser on a phone/tablet/computer connected to the same local network to that IP address as the URL and you will get the setting interface for that unit. If the WebUI is written properly, it will provide a capable mobile interface within the limited real estate just like this forum for example or any web site designed for both computers and mobile devices.

The current manual is one great example of how botched this launch has been. They just did a lot of cut and paste from the previous generation manuals which means things that were in the previous generation that is not in the new generation is still included and things that are new aren't described well if at all.

Compared to this the support, response and updating of the HTP-1 looks like day and night. The owner's thread for the HTP-1 has a monolith support guy collecting bug reports, making a list of current issues, providing beta updates, etc.

These devices are no longer like the old AVRs that were primarily hardware with a small amount of firmware thrown in. Like electric vehicles these are driven by substantial amount of software within them and because of the huge feature set, the number of cross-interactions and edge cases (e.g., a bug that manifests when you have 4 subs with content that is doing synthesized Dolby or DTS surround and you have disabled some channels, crossovers for some but not all speakers and not otherwise or some other such edge cases) all from the software.

It is as complicated as writing a full-featured app and these shops have never been experts in writing software.

Not the exact same problems but seem like a similar path emotiva went through. The move from hardware to hw & SW without a lot of experience in both areas can easily lead to botched releases. Hopefully Anthem can get them resolved and move on like emotiva has done ... without too much damage to their rep

 

[ex audiophile]

got this from the AudioAdvice web site. https://www.audioadvice.com/videos-reviews/anthem-avm-home-theater-processors-review/

"Web Setup Interface
If typing in 30 names of your virtual inputs using the cursor makes you think that is going to be time-consuming, you’ll be super pleased to know about the great new web interface. All you have to do is download the free software from Anthem, look up the IP address of your processor, (which you can find by selecting the network display) then you have full access to every single part of the setup right from your laptop! This also means you can sit in your primary listening position and quickly fine-tune the settings to really dial in the audio if you wish."

Seems clear that you have to use a laptop to access the web interface and change settings. You of course could use other devices but the small screen size of your phone/tablet would be a PITA. If you don't make changes to your setup very often this is not likely to be a big deal. For me it comes close to being a deal breaker. I enjoy listening to music with/without ARC, changing speaker settings etc and at this point I don't think you can do that with the remote. Finding our laptop and firing it up, locating the web interface etc sounds minor but compared to the current method of using the remote and your TV screen it's a major pain for grumpy old farts, which includes most of us. I'll just add that finding the IP address of the processor may not be so simple. One YouTube reviewer explained that he had to download the Google Home app JUST TO ACCESS THE IP ADDRESS OF HIS PROCESSOR (AVM70). Hard to believe and hopefully fixed eventually.

 

[Vasr]

Seems clear that you have to use a laptop to access the web interface and change settings. You of course could use other devices but the small screen size of your phone/tablet would be a PITA. If you don't make changes to your setup very often this is not likely to be a big deal. For me it comes close to being a deal breaker. I enjoy listening to music with/without ARC, changing speaker settings etc and at this point I don't think you can do that with the remote. Finding our laptop and firing it up, locating the web interface etc sounds minor but compared to the current method of using the remote and your TV screen it's a major pain for grumpy old farts, which includes most of us. I'll just add that finding the IP address of the processor may not be so simple. One YouTube reviewer explained that he had to download the Google Home app JUST TO ACCESS THE IP ADDRESS OF HIS PROCESSOR (AVM70). Hard to believe and hopefully fixed eventually.

Yeah, it needs a generational change for this transition to become the norm. It already has for many home devices including routers. I have been using my tablet for increasing number of things around the home. Don't have a laptop anymore.

But I don't think there are any changes that you want to make frequently that requires the web access OR it is not a common enough user requirement. It is more of a psychological barrier, I think. And the way Anthem is doing it is not inherent to the web based UI system, just bad design not unique to Anthem.

These audio guys are many years behind the state-of-the-art in access via phones/tablets/computers with auto-discovery and auto-configuration.

They would be much better off providing an app to run on a phone or tablet that will auto discover the device when it is just powered on (even before it is connected to anything simply using Bluetooth), do the initial set up via a friendly set of screens leading you through the bare minimum steps making as much of the settings automatic as possible. But they just don't have that software DNA yet in the company from the top down to do this. This is one reason Tesla was able to run circles around the competition in software-enabling the car in the auto industry which in many ways is similar to the audio industry.

And so they lose customers that are forced to transition from one set of non-intuitive interfaces to another set of non-intuitive interfaces.

 

[SimpleTheater]

This is one reason Tesla was able to run circles around the competition in software-enabling the car in the auto industry which in many ways is similar to the audio industry.

I actually think you're spot on with the analogy to autos. Audio technology is solid and good implementation is possible even with small companies (SCHIIT comes to mind with their amps/dacs). The future is in the software, just like cars are differentiating themselves with their software and displays. The audio industry is really just getting started, with Yamaha building MusicCast into nearly all their devices (to name just one company). And in all honesty, while I own a Yamaha now, they are WAY behind the technology curve. SONOS really eats their lunch, but they don't (yet) offer an AVR. I'm fascinated what the future will bring to audio and which companies will survive.

 

[Vasr]

I'm fascinated what the future will bring to audio and which companies will survive.

Just looking at it from the outside, Trinnov probably has the best software experience and skill sets right now. But I am not sure they can grow out of their niche without introducing lower end products.

Amongst the major brands, I have been impressed by the Monolith team. They seem to have come up with a modular architecture in the HTP-1 that is designed to be controlled by software I believe using a real-time Linux kernel. The experience and skill sets they have been building up over time should serve them well for future products that will be increasingly software dependent. ATI itself doesn't seem to have sufficient depth and breadth of consumer marketing channels so if Monoprice continues with them that should be a good combination.

The other one I would bet on is NAD. They seem to have a good product management team to anticipate trends. They have shown willingness to use best-of-class third-party modules going into the integrator model. They have been moving away from specialized hardware design and more and more into software to integrate but don't know how good/limited their proprietary platform OS is but they are going in the right direction.

The Japanese brands are still in the legacy mode at least for current products. Don't know when and how they will do in getting into a more software-dominated architectures and/or modular designs. Will be interesting to see who out of them will be the first out of the gate with a revamp of the architecture. I am sure they all have internal products they have been playing with. Not sure they have built higher-level software expertise necessary within their team. It is a very philosophically different change from the earlier hardware dominated engineering. Culture change is hard.

Anthem is just a small step ahead in the new line up compared to Japanese brands software-wise but haven't executed well so far. The product management seems to be Anthem's weak spot at the moment. And that can be a killer.

 

[rynberg]

Every other processor requires a laptop/tablet/phone to interface beyond, what I consider, daily use functions. You can yell at the sky all you want but it doesn't change anything. You pick up your tablet and make whatever change you like. Trying to make it look like Anthem is somehow poorer than competitors doing the exact same thing is silly. Especially since the Anthem actually provides an OSD for daily use information -- other competitors don't even do that.

Edit: Correction, the Marantz and Yamaha processors do not require this, but they are hardly in the same league in terms of room correction, channel count, or in some cases, flexibility.

 

[rynberg]

Absolutely. Why I won’t buy a GM, Ford or Chrysler ever again. Went that route and got burned and I’m never looking back. And I’m going back between 20 and 35 years for them, so 15 is just getting started.

Must be painful to go through life never assessing new information.

So what has changed with Anthem? WiFi that won’t connect without a specific type of phone, how is that different than a cable adapter.

Vasr corrected this misinformation in post #162.

It also seems as though it lacks analog pass through, something that Denon, Yamaha, etc. have on even there cheapest AVR’s.

The processors have it; the MRX receivers do not have it (on launch anyway). Why someone would want to listen to a source without applying bass management and room correction is beyond me, but I 100% agree that this seems a silly feature to leave out.

Last difference, ASR hasn’t tested it yet, and I will buy NOTHING until I see those results.

OK, but you somehow seem personally offended that ASR hasn't tested a receiver that just launched this week. Not sure how that complaint is specific to Anthem and how they design their products.

 

[Duraace9sp]

The processors have it; the MRX receivers do not have it (on launch anyway). Why someone would want to listen to a source without applying bass management and room correction is beyond me, but I 100% agree that this seems a silly feature to leave out.

well.....for me this is easy. I’d want outboard amps for good fr/fl and outboard DAC for 2 channel audio bypassing theater....not an option. This is something I would use a lot......

 

[Duraace9sp]

i Actually requested cancellation (1140) - as this no pass thru was the proverbial straw for me. Dealer has gone silent, but it has only been a day, So all should be ok......I hope

 

[rynberg]

well.....for me this is easy. I’d want outboard amps for good fr/fl and outboard DAC for 2 channel audio bypassing theater....not an option. This is something I would use a lot......

But why? You think a separate DAC sounds better than bass management and room correction? I just don't get it.

 

[symphara]

But why? You think a separate DAC sounds better than bass management and room correction? I just don't get it.

I do. On one hand I spent a bit of time tweaking the room and the position of the speakers, sub volume and crossover to get good stereo sound without room correction, and I'm happy with the result.

On the other hand I tried listening to stereo through an AV receiver with room correction enabled, and to me it sounds far worse than directly pumping stereo sound into my integrated amplifier, especially now that I have a got a very good DAC.

I tried ARC, Audyssey, it always sounds over-processed, artificial, just not as nice.

 

[SimpleTheater]

Absolutely. Why I won’t buy a GM, Ford or Chrysler ever again. Went that route and got burned and I’m never looking back. And I’m going back between 20 and 35 years for them, so 15 is just getting started.

Must be painful to go through life never assessing new information.

When GM refused to fix a headgasket 600 miles outside of their 60,000 mile engine warranty, I said I was done with them.
When Ford refused to fix rust within the first year because they couldn't put their finger ALL THE WAY THROUGH the metal and the warranty says rust through, not mostly through, I said I was done with them.
When Chrysler refused to warranty struts that failed the third time within the 36,000 mile warranty, even though they replaced them under warranty the first two times, I said I was done with them.

And when Anthem said either get a laptop with a serial adapter or go out and buy a serial adapter to USB or you won't be able to user our product, I said I was done with them.

That's not failing to assess new information, that's being a smart consumer. When one of those companies compensates me for the above, I will put their products back into potential candidates going forward.

So what has changed with Anthem? WiFi that won’t connect without a specific type of phone, how is that different than a cable adapter.

Vasr corrected this misinformation in post #162.

He corrected that you don't need a specific phone, but you are required to use a Google product, and if you don't have a Google account you will have to go through the hassle of creating one. Yamaha, Denon and most other companies don't require you to be a customer of someone else to use their products. So yes, Vasr did correct the misinformation, but it is none-the-less a sad state that they can't automatically connect their product to the local WiFi without a 3rd party tool.

Last difference, ASR hasn’t tested it yet, and I will buy NOTHING until I see those results.

OK, but you somehow seem personally offended that ASR hasn't tested a receiver that just launched this week. Not sure how that complaint is specific to Anthem and how they design their products.

You took this the wrong way. I'm not personally offended. I've said it on these boards many times, "I will NOT buy anything not tested by ASR." I'm tired of companies producing products that don't meet their promises. You can say I'm waiting to assess the new information before making a purchase.

 

[database]

I do. On one hand I spent a bit of time tweaking the room and the position of the speakers, sub volume and crossover to get good stereo sound without room correction, and I'm happy with the result.

On the other hand I tried listening to stereo through an AV receiver with room correction enabled, and to me it sounds far worse than directly pumping stereo sound into my integrated amplifier, especially now that I have a got a very good DAC.

I tried ARC, Audyssey, it always sounds over-processed, artificial, just not as nice.

No Dirac? I wouldn't dismiss room correction until you've tried Dirac with a competent processor.

 

[symphara]

No Dirac? I wouldn't dismiss room correction until you've tried Dirac with a competent processor.

A competent processor with Dirac is a little over my current budget, unless you count in Arcam, and I don't trust their build quality.

I'm curious about RoomPerfect though. I'm planning to get a Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 for another system and I will give room correction for stereo another chance.

 

[SimpleTheater]

This thread has gone painfully quiet since the ASR review.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/anthem-avm60-review-av-processor.20155/

Always smart to wait before buying. Important to assess new information prior to jumping in feet first.