Anthem to introduce new models!

[gattaca]

^^^ ++ your comment, "with soup can sized capacitors and two big freakin’ toroidal transformers in a dedicated 20 amp circuit. It’s built like a damned tank" to that I'll add "higher quality capacitors" Nippon, Nichicon, .. used in construction.

I'm not trying to derail the thread with esoteric cap talk... just the listing of the better players. When I take the covers off something, the caps are one of the first things I take note of, along with the 85C or 105C ratings and where they are located relative to heat. Attention to details is everything with electrolytics. -> https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supplies-101,4193-5.html
Stay safe, stay alive. Peace.

 

[Vasr]

Anthem has updated their web site and the AVM90 is listed at US$7000 (not the $6500 reported earlier in this thread). Exactly double the price of the AVM70.

Some second-hand information I came across here that might explain the price discrepancy above for the AVM90.

It would appear that the final AVM90 pricing of US$7k includes the future hardware upgrade to HDMI 2.1 priced at $500 for the AVM70. AVM90 will be sold with that upgrade priced in while AVM70 pricing is without it.

The ETA for that module is unknown but presumably they didn't want their typical flagship purchasers to have to pay again while paying ahead is no big deal for their purses and will be provided as a "white-glove" service when that module becomes available.

The "bottom-feeders" can get the AVM70 and fork out $500 more later or skip it as irrelevant for their needs.

It still doesn't justify the price difference between the AVM70 and AVM90 IMO.

 

[DrDardis]

@cbrents73 On the MRX line, I note it says all the amps are 'fully assignable'. Does this mean if we only use them for FX channels, can we decouple the LCR channels from the amplification circuit entirely and avoid clipping when sending to separate power amps? Similar to Denon pre-amp mode on the 3700H and up?

Thanks for the information and participating, really helpful

 

[cbrents73]

@cbrents73 On the MRX line, I note it says all the amps are 'fully assignable'. Does this mean if we only use them for FX channels, can we decouple the LCR channels from the amplification circuit entirely and avoid clipping when sending to separate power amps? Similar to Denon pre-amp mode on the 3700H and up?

Thanks for the information and participating, really helpful

Any Receiver that has pre-outs bypasses the amplification section within it - so the receiver's amp will not clip, and as long as you don't push the added separate amp any harder than you would your receiver's, it will not clip either. We're making ours so that the Left & Right front channels are "assignable" so you can determine if you want to run additional Atmos or surround channels. If you want more power up front by adding/upgrading to a bigger power amp, you can and not have to waste those two channels by letting them set idle. The Center Channel Amp is not assignable and is only bypassed when going preout to an external amp - so the amps would technically be "on", they're just not running. Thanks.

 

[jimp]

I am also curious about the question that @Vasr raised earlier in this thread:

"AVM70 uses the AK4490EQ for just the L and R with crappy DACs for the rest of the channels. AVM 90 may use four 4-channel AK4499EQ on all channels."

Plan on buying either the AVM 70 or AVM 90 when they are released in the next month or so. I've invested in a very nice center channel as well as fronts (Revel 228Bes and 426Be) and would like the better DACs for my front sound stage. Is there any information available regarding what DACs are used on the what channels on the 70 and 90? This would make a difference to me.

 

[Newman]

The quote that you are basing your thoughts on is unsubstantiated. Especially “crappy DACs”. I suspect the aim was to justify the huge price premium for the 90. Honestly, hyping up DAC grades is pure audiophilia.

 

[jimp]

The quote that you are basing your thoughts on is unsubstantiated. Especially “crappy DACs”. I suspect the aim was to justify the huge price premium for the 90. Honestly, hyping up DAC grades is pure audiophilia.

Yes, I just ignored the "crappy DACs" reference in that quote. But there are different qualities of DACs, no? I realize there is more to it than the DACs themselves and just because a product uses high quality DACs doesn't translate into a better product. But starting off with high end components seems like a good place to start, no?

 

[direstraitsfan98]

Made in Vietnam, not Canada. But they have a made in Canada price tag right in line with the STR line.

 

[valerianf]

The MRX 540 will be an interesting entry point.
I need to wait for the user manual to read if/how it is doing bi-amp.
I also need to read the forum about ARC and see if it is possible to do a manual correction after measurement.
It is very important not to be slave of any AI.

 

[Vasr]

I am also curious about the question that @Vasr raised earlier in this thread:

"AVM70 uses the AK4490EQ for just the L and R with crappy DACs for the rest of the channels. AVM 90 may use four 4-channel AK4499EQ on all channels."

If you want to quote with an attribution, you should always use the full quote so as not to change the meaning.. it is not that hard. Otherwise, it gets all the knee-jerking evangelists riled up and the narrative gets changed.

It is possible that the AVM70 uses the AK4490EQ for just the L and R with crappy DACs for the rest of the channels. AVM 90 may use four 4-channel AK4499EQ on all channels. Even so, doubling the price is a middle finger raised.

This was in the context of Anthem characterizing the higher end DAC in the AVM 90 as "upgraded electronics". If they can pitch a higher-tier DAC as "upgraded electronics" to justify the pricing, one is perfectly justified in calling lower-tier DACs as "crappy DACs". It is not making any statement on the audibility.

Context matters.

 

[jimp]

If you want to quote with an attribution, you should always use the full quote so as not to change the meaning.. it is not that hard. Otherwise, it gets all the knee-jerking evangelists riled up and the narrative gets changed.



This was in the context of Anthem characterizing the higher end DAC in the AVM 90 as "upgraded electronics". If they can pitch a higher-tier DAC as "upgraded electronics" to justify the pricing, one is perfectly justified in calling lower-tier DACs as "crappy DACs". It is not making any statement on the audibility.

Context matters.

Sorry, I thought I grabbed the salient point. I'm just looking for information here to make an educated decision. I have no interest in ruffling any feather or poking the "knee-jerking evangelists". It seems people hang out on these forums just looking to poke a fight. I am just here to learn, that's all.

 

[Vasr]

Sorry, I thought I grabbed the salient point. I'm just looking for information here to make an educated decision. I have no interest in ruffling any feather or poking the "knee-jerking evangelists". It seems people hang out on these forums just looking to poke a fight. I am just here to learn, that's all.

To answer your question, nobody knows the complete internal configuration of DACs on the AVM 70/90 vaporware (as of now). All we know is the two different DACs quoted for the two models and we can be pretty sure they are certainly used for the main L and R. But beyond that, it is anybody's guess. The partial quote made it look like I knew.

AK 4490EQ in AVM 70 is a 2 channel DAC. So, that would be used for L and R. What it uses for Center and rest is unknown.
AK 4499EQ in AVM 90 is a 4-channel DAC. The open question is whether they use multiples of these for all channels, or one for just L and R in a 4 into 2 summed channels to get better paper specs for L and R.

The original statement was in speculation of how they might try to justify the price difference between the two. It could be just the two DAC chips difference or it could very well be that they use lesser DACs in AVM 70 to make the AVM 90 look better on paper.

But they will all be purely paper spec differences. Hence, the skepticism over the "superiority" of the AVM 90 to justify the price.

 

[RichB]

To answer your question, nobody knows the complete internal configuration of DACs on the AVM 70/90 vaporware (as of now). All we know is the two different DACs quoted for the two models and we can be pretty sure they are certainly used for the main L and R. But beyond that, it is anybody's guess. The partial quote made it look like I knew.

AK 4490EQ in AVM 70 is a 2 channel DAC. So, that would be used for L and R. What it uses for Center and rest is unknown.
AK 4499EQ in AVM 90 is a 4-channel DAC. The open question is whether they use multiples of these for all channels, or one for just L and R in a 4 into 2 summed channels to get better paper specs for L and R.

The original statement was in speculation of how they might try to justify the price difference between the two. It could be just the two DAC chips difference or it could very well be that they use lesser DACs in AVM 70 to make the AVM 90 look better on paper.

But they will all be purely paper spec differences. Hence, the skepticism over the "superiority" of the AVM 90 to justify the price.

The most amazing aspect of the Emotiva RMC-1 is the Dolby Surround processing of 2.0 content. My wife and I watch some British TV. With Dolby Surround, it sounds like a 5.1 (my system) sound track. The Denon 3700 sound like to old Dolby where too much sound is shifted to the center channel and the fullness is lost.

The 3700 uses the new Dolby surround so I am not sure what to make of it. I'll be upgrading the system with a ATI AT525NC to see if that helps. There may be differences in the implemenation.

The RMC-1 uses the AK4490 for each channel, perhaps that could be a reason for the improved Dolby Surround performance?

- Rich

 

[Newman]

Sorry, I thought I grabbed the salient point. I'm just looking for information here to make an educated decision.

An “educated decision” would do well to include understanding how tenuous is the connection between DAC specs and better sound. If you ever wondered whether, maybe, DAC makers are hard core and don’t engage in buttery marketing to audiophiles, then finding terminology like “VELVETSOUND” being used to describe proprietary technologies should provide your answer. AKM clearly expects audiophiles to read sites like this, and use the information therein to make ‘educated’ decisions. I know I wouldn’t.

I have no interest in ruffling any feather or poking the "knee-jerking evangelists". It seems people hang out on these forums just looking to poke a fight. I am just here to learn, that's all.

There is a limited amount you can learn, and a lot of misinformation you can pick up, reading posts that are liberally laced with hyperbole and name calling, and obsessed with appropriate use of context despite being reckless with appropriate use of language. “Crappy DACs”, “vaporware”, “knee-jerking evangelists”, and “bottom feeders” are clues. The mods, however, might learn what they need from them. Especially when, like “knee jerking evangelists”, it is too thinly disguised and clearly directed at one individual here.

cheers

 

[Vasr]

The most amazing aspect of the Emotiva RMC-1 is the Dolby Surround processing of 2.0 content. My wife and I watch some British TV. With Dolby Surround, it sounds like a 5.1 (my system) sound track. The Denon 3700 sound like to old Dolby where too much sound is shifted to the center channel and the fullness is lost.

The 3700 uses the new Dolby surround so I am not sure what to make of it. I'll be upgrading the system with a ATI AT525NC to see if that helps. There may be differences in the implemenation.

The RMC-1 uses the AK4490 for each channel, perhaps that could be a reason for the improved Dolby Surround performance?

- Rich

I don't think it has anything to do with the DAC.

Dolby Surround up-mixing is typically done in two different modes. In the "Music" mode, it concentrates more in the front stage. In the "Movie" mode, you get a more "surround" envelope. One or the other may be the default or fixed between the two units. There may be user settings you can change or it may be hardwired. Don't know about these two units in specificity.

Also some units have a "center spread" switch in the audio configuration that affects the up-mixing channel balance. This may be on/off by default.

A downstream amp won't make any difference. The up-mix is different.

 

[valerianf]

Most of the time if there is a "center spread " this adjustment is only available in the mode "Dolby music".
It is really a plus as it use the FL-center-FR

 

[RichB]

I don't think it has anything to do with the DAC.

Dolby Surround up-mixing is typically done in two different modes. In the "Music" mode, it concentrates more in the front stage. In the "Movie" mode, you get a more "surround" envelope. One or the other may be the default or fixed between the two units. There may be user settings you can change or it may be hardwired. Don't know about these two units in specificity.

Also some units have a "center spread" switch in the audio configuration that affects the up-mixing channel balance. This may be on/off by default.

A downstream amp won't make any difference. The up-mix is different.

I remain curious

- Rich

 

[peng]

My bad then. 1120 did fairly good here, lot better than 520 so perhaps we get the MRX740 next year for @amirm ! ARC Genesis, 15.2 processing, DTS:X Pro and two independent subwoofer outputs. Perhaps Peng will consider one of these in future!

If you are talking about DAC, the 1120 did not do a lot better than the 520, in fact practically the same.

 

[Tlsrulz]

Got a question maybe Chris can check.
For the 740 is it possible if I am using external amplification for the base 7 channels to configure it to use the internal amps for the 4 Atmos ceiling speakers.

I'm debating between the 70 vs the 740. The extra price I'll get.
-15 ch processing
- better DAC
- DTS-pro
- balanced outputs.
- 2x independent sub outs.
Did I miss anything...

The 740 is already 2x the denon 3700 I was considering ... but it's not without its problems so waiting to see how that reaolves.. but can't wait for forever. The 70 is then another 1K on top of the 740 so it completely blows the budget... love this hobby.

 

[Chromatischism]

My decision would be made based on whether I need 2x independent sub outs (always - but are they really independent?) and if I need the extra channels.

This is why I'll stick with Denon...I am able to get very good dual sub EQ without having to jump so high in the product line.