Anthem STR pre-amp

[MarcT]

not distortion , noise. As far as two subs, its not about volume of bass but evenness of frequency response across listening positions.

Your speakers have a 10dB rise starting at 5Kz that could be tamed with full range dirac.

Paradigm Persona 3F Speaker System Review Test Bench

Test Bench L/R Sensitivity: 89.5 dB from 500 Hz to 2 kHz Center Sensitivity: 89 dB from 500 Hz to 2 kHz Surround Sensitivity: 89 dB from 500 Hz to 2 kHz

www.soundandvision.com

Wow, that is a serious HF bump there! I think even my old ears could pick up on that one.

 

[xirtam2005]

The remotes for the STR and the Okto are excellent. The Okto is not a good solution for using a logitech harmony but the STR works great with harmony (but I don't use that anymore)

The remote for the SHD is not great but I don't use it as I control volume with the Okto.

Considering the rest of the system I don't think the okto dac will add any sound quality or system SINAD over the SHD analog outs. You could always get the full SHD (not studio) and add an Okto when it arrives next year.

Thanks for all the informative comments.
By next year do you mean 2023?? That Okto is out of stock for a whole year?

 

[waynel]

Thanks for all the informative comments.
By next year do you mean 2023?? That Okto is out of stock for a whole year?

shipments have been very delayed and orders are closed. As I mentioned you could get the full SHD (not studio) then add an external multichannel dac later or get the STR and be done now.

With either the STR of the SHD internal DACs , your amps will be the noise and distortion limiting factor (excluding the speakers of course).

Wayne

 

[xirtam2005]

Wow, that is a serious HF bump there! I think even my old ears could pick up on that one.

I don't notice a HF bump that pronounced. I'd be interested in taking my own measurements with miniDSP and a UMIK. Those speakers were by far the best I've heard at that price level. Of course I've heard better, but at like >$30k/pair.

 

[xirtam2005]

shipments have been very delayed and orders are closed. As I mentioned you could get the full SHD (not studio) then add an external multichannel dac later or get the STR and be done now.

With either the STR of the SHD internal DACs , your amps will be the noise and distortion limiting factor (excluding the speakers of course).

Wayne

OK. Wow. This whole chip shortage is really something. I might try the STR. I think the same parent brand makes that and my speakers and demos my speakers with the STR. Not that it matters.

Wayne, I am curious what speakers and sub(s) do you use?

 

[waynel]

I don't notice a HF bump that pronounced. I'd be interested in taking my own measurements with miniDSP and a UMIK. Those speakers were by far the best I've heard at that price level. Of course I've heard better, but at like >$30k/pair.

In my opinion Paradigm added the bump intentionally , possibly because it helps them stand out in the showroom. you can try EQing it out and see if you like it better with or without the bump. Personally, I'm opposed to this kind of intentional "voicing" as it adds to the circle of confusion but you can EQ to your preference.

 

[waynel]

OK. Wow. This whole chip shortage is really something. I might try the STR. I think the same parent brand makes that and my speakers and demos my speakers with the STR. Not that it matters.

Wayne, I am curious what speakers and sub(s) do you use?

Main: Revel Salon2 + 2X JL F113V2, MiniDSP SHD Studio, Okto DAC8 Pro, 2X Benchmark AHB2 in bridged mono, Yamaha WXC-50 , Denon 3700H , ARX RS-1 for HT bypass https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/chasing-sinad.17420/

Desktop: Neumann KH120s, Motu M4, 2X SVS SB1000 Pro (miniDSP Flex balanced incoming)

Living Room : Kef R7's, Rythmik E15HP2, Yamaha WXC-50 -> Digital out -> MiniDSP NanoDigi -> 2X SMSL M300 mkII-> Audiophonics MPA-S250NC XLR (everything but the Yamaha hidden behind books) https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...trusive-living-room-streaming-solution.17130/

 

[Pdxwayne]

I don't notice a HF bump that pronounced. I'd be interested in taking my own measurements with miniDSP and a UMIK. Those speakers were by far the best I've heard at that price level. Of course I've heard better, but at like >$30k/pair.

I have the Persona B. FYI, in my big (+5000 cubic ft) room that is open to rest of home and heavily carpeted, that bump as measured with REW in my sitting position was very minor. So this really depends on your room, sitting position, etc. If you don't notice the bump, great for you.

 

[MarcT]

I don't notice a HF bump that pronounced. I'd be interested in taking my own measurements with miniDSP and a UMIK. Those speakers were by far the best I've heard at that price level. Of course I've heard better, but at like >$30k/pair.

I've heard the Persona speakers at audio shows being driven by Anthem STR components and I also thought they sounded really good. The clarity and articulation from top to bottom of the audio range is impressive. My only caveat is that they will certainly tell you all about overly bright recordings.

Also, the Persona 3 is on the smallish side for $10k towers, at least for me, and therefore do not have that great bass extension. And the Persona 5 are only rated slightly deeper in the bass. The Persona 7 are rated much deeper, but then you are looking at over $20k. I guess if you know how to optimally integrate subs, the Persona 3 can be great, but subs are not my forte.

 

[xirtam2005]

I've heard the Persona speakers at audio shows being driven by Anthem STR components and I also thought they sounded really good. The clarity and articulation from top to bottom of the audio range is impressive. My only caveat is that they will certainly tell you all about overly bright recordings.

Also, the Persona 3 is on the smallish side for $10k towers, at least for me, and therefore do not have that great bass extension. And the Persona 5 are only rated slightly deeper in the bass. The Persona 7 are rated much deeper, but then you are looking at over $20k. I guess if you know how to optimally integrate subs, the Persona 3 can be great, but subs are not my forte.

Thanks all. I'm leaning toward the Anthem STR Pre. It does offer ARC to 20khz so I can experiment. Plus I have a relationship with the dealer, so hope to be able to demo.

What I love about the 3F is the way it handles super fast transients and articulation. Yes, bad recordings are too revealing. I much prefer the Paradigm Signature S2 home theater for watching movies or "listening to music" of bad recordings.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Thanks all. I'm leaning toward the Anthem STR Pre. It does offer ARC to 20khz so I can experiment. Plus I have a relationship with the dealer, so hope to be able to demo.

What I love about the 3F is the way it handles super fast transients and articulation. Yes, bad recordings are too revealing. I much prefer the Paradigm Signature S2 home theater for watching movies or "listening to music" of bad recordings.

Interesting.....I also have Signature S2.....And using it as main pair for multichannels music playback seems to work better than using Persona B as the main pair. My Persona B seems not blending that well with my other Signature and Studio speakers.

Anyway, please come back and let us know how STR works for you.

 

[xirtam2005]

Interesting.....I also have Signature S2.....And using it as main pair for multichannels music playback seems to work better than using Persona B as the main pair. My Persona B seems not blending that well with my other Signature and Studio speakers.

Anyway, please come back and let us know how STR works for you.

I have a complete Paradigm Signature HT system with S2 main left right, C3 center and Sub 1, and S1 surrounds. Love it! Vocals are excellent and clear, not bright. Love the AKM DAC in the Marantz AV8802A. That system is not as revealing as the Oppo/Persona combo but is very enjoyable for movies and non critical system. For music it is a very good "normal, non audiophile" system that plays everything well enough to be enjoyable.

The Signature should blend well with other Sig and Reference line speakers. Persona has Be for mid as well so will not blend as well.

 

[Pdxwayne]

I have a complete Paradigm Signature HT system with S2 main left right, C3 center and Sub 1, and S1 surrounds. Love it! Vocals are excellent and clear, not bright. Love the AKM DAC in the Marantz AV8802A. That system is not as revealing as the Oppo/Persona combo but is very enjoyable for movies and non critical system. For music it is a very good "normal, non audiophile" system that plays everything well enough to be enjoyable.

The Signature should blend well with other Sig and Reference line speakers. Persona has Be for mid as well so will not blend as well.

Very nice.

My living room 5.2 setup is Paradigm Signature S2 main left right, C1 center, Studio 10 surrounds, Sub 15 and Seismic 110. I have AV8801. Kind of similar....But yours is better!

My 2.2 stereo is Persona B with two seismic 110. Persona B running full range and subs fill in the low notes. The Persona series is really special!

 

[Mike-48]

The Anthem STR Pre or the Benchmark DAC 3 HGC with JL Audio CR-1 combo are what I can find.

Let me chime in with a few points on this and other posts:

• The CR-1 is very nice, as are JL subs, but they provide PEQ only in the sub's range, while the Schroeder frequency is about 200-300 Hz in most rooms, and some audiophiles (including me) find it useful to correct as much as an octave above, since the room still influences the sound a lot. The miniDSP SHD or Anthem STR can do that, but PEQ built into subs cannot.
• There was some mention of DIRAC being superior for correcting just above 5 kHz as ARC's default is to stop at 5 kHz. That is the default, but it is trivial to change, and ARC works perfectly well, 20 Hz - 20 kHz.
• By the way, MANY "audiophile" speakers have a bump around 10 kHz. It provides the "air" that many like. I have carefully arranged my room and speakers so I don't have that, but many audiophiles love it. There's no sin in that.
• The miniDSP SHD is a nice unit (especially combined with the Okto 8!), but I consider its usability far below that of the Anthem STR. (I own both.) Installing updates, making corrections, changing crossovers -- all are more complicated with the miniDSP, because they require connecting a computer directly to the single USB input. (The Anthem connects through the home network.) There are no tone controls on the miniDSP for making quick fixes to recordings. The display is small and hard to read, compared to the sharp, large, bright Anthem display. The miniDSP has two or three (I forget) different software packages that must be downloaded from different places and installed. Anthem provides it all in ARC downloads, which also update firmware automatically if needed. So techies may prefer the miniDSP for its lower cost or some particular feature of DIRAC, or measurements that are (IMO inconsequentially) better, but I find using the Anthem STR a much more pleasant experience, and it is wonderful sonically.
• The Anthem uses an AKM DAC, though not the top-of-the-line one. It resamples everything to 192 kHz, and Anthem seems to know how to get the best out of that DAC chip under those circumstances. The Anthem STR Pre is in short supply now because of the fire in Japan.

No DSP system is absolutely perfect. Yet they have improved radically in the last 5-10 years, and Anthem's is one of the best. Audiophiles who are not sympathetic to DSP (or even digital audio in general) have listened to it in my system and consider it really excellent.

Anthem's ARC is not the only way to get great sound with subs -- I am sure many get excellent sound from the miniDSP SHD or other DSP units as well. My comments were mainly about usability, not sound quality.

 

[xirtam2005]

Let me chime in with a few points on this and other posts:

• The CR-1 is very nice, as are JL subs, but they provide PEQ only in the sub's range, while the Schroeder frequency is about 200-300 Hz in most rooms, and some audiophiles (including me) find it useful to correct as much as an octave above, since the room still influences the sound a lot. The miniDSP SHD or Anthem STR can do that, but PEQ built into subs cannot.
• There was some mention of DIRAC being superior for correcting just above 5 kHz as ARC's default is to stop at 5 kHz. That is the default, but it is trivial to change, and ARC works perfectly well, 20 Hz - 20 kHz.
• By the way, MANY "audiophile" speakers have a bump around 10 kHz. It provides the "air" that many like. I have carefully arranged my room and speakers so I don't have that, but many audiophiles love it. There's no sin in that.
• The miniDSP SHD is a nice unit (especially combined with the Okto 8!), but I consider its usability far below that of the Anthem STR. (I own both.) Installing updates, making corrections, changing crossovers -- all are more complicated with the miniDSP, because they require connecting a computer directly to the single USB input. (The Anthem connects through the home network.) There are no tone controls on the miniDSP for making quick fixes to recordings. The display is small and hard to read, compared to the sharp, large, bright Anthem display. The miniDSP has two or three (I forget) different software packages that must be downloaded from different places and installed. Anthem provides it all in ARC downloads, which also update firmware automatically if needed. So techies may prefer the miniDSP for its lower cost or some particular feature of DIRAC, or measurements that are (IMO inconsequentially) better, but I find using the Anthem STR a much more pleasant experience, and it is wonderful sonically.
• The Anthem uses an AKM DAC, though not the top-of-the-line one. It resamples everything to 192 kHz, and Anthem seems to know how to get the best out of that DAC chip under those circumstances. The Anthem STR Pre is in short supply now because of the fire in Japan.

No DSP system is absolutely perfect. Yet they have improved radically in the last 5-10 years, and Anthem's is one of the best. Audiophiles who are not sympathetic to DSP (or even digital audio in general) have listened to it in my system and consider it really excellent.

Anthem's ARC is not the only way to get great sound with subs -- I am sure many get excellent sound from the miniDSP SHD or other DSP units as well. My comments were mainly about usability, not sound quality.

Thanks for the great response. I'd actually like your opinion on the Anthem STR sound quality vs. other components with arguably "better" DACs.

If Anthem used either an AKM4493 or ESS Sabre 9028/9038, I'd totally be sold.

What really attracts me about the Anthem is the sub integration and ARC. I really like the way my system sounds with classical/jazz/instrumentals, and classic rock, but prefer listening to music on my "lesser" HT system for modern pop, dance type music, and anything that is a poor recording. It would be great if I could have 2 ARC settings, one <400-500 Hz for things that already sound good and full range for things that don't. Not sure if it can do that.

 

[waynel]

Let me chime in with a few points on this and other posts:

• The CR-1 is very nice, as are JL subs, but they provide PEQ only in the sub's range, while the Schroeder frequency is about 200-300 Hz in most rooms, and some audiophiles (including me) find it useful to correct as much as an octave above, since the room still influences the sound a lot. The miniDSP SHD or Anthem STR can do that, but PEQ built into subs cannot.
• There was some mention of DIRAC being superior for correcting just above 5 kHz as ARC's default is to stop at 5 kHz. That is the default, but it is trivial to change, and ARC works perfectly well, 20 Hz - 20 kHz.
• By the way, MANY "audiophile" speakers have a bump around 10 kHz. It provides the "air" that many like. I have carefully arranged my room and speakers so I don't have that, but many audiophiles love it. There's no sin in that.
• The miniDSP SHD is a nice unit (especially combined with the Okto 8!), but I consider its usability far below that of the Anthem STR. (I own both.) Installing updates, making corrections, changing crossovers -- all are more complicated with the miniDSP, because they require connecting a computer directly to the single USB input. (The Anthem connects through the home network.) There are no tone controls on the miniDSP for making quick fixes to recordings. The display is small and hard to read, compared to the sharp, large, bright Anthem display. The miniDSP has two or three (I forget) different software packages that must be downloaded from different places and installed. Anthem provides it all in ARC downloads, which also update firmware automatically if needed. So techies may prefer the miniDSP for its lower cost or some particular feature of DIRAC, or measurements that are (IMO inconsequentially) better, but I find using the Anthem STR a much more pleasant experience, and it is wonderful sonically.
• The Anthem uses an AKM DAC, though not the top-of-the-line one. It resamples everything to 192 kHz, and Anthem seems to know how to get the best out of that DAC chip under those circumstances. The Anthem STR Pre is in short supply now because of the fire in Japan.

No DSP system is absolutely perfect. Yet they have improved radically in the last 5-10 years, and Anthem's is one of the best. Audiophiles who are not sympathetic to DSP (or even digital audio in general) have listened to it in my system and consider it really excellent.

Anthem's ARC is not the only way to get great sound with subs -- I am sure many get excellent sound from the miniDSP SHD or other DSP units as well. My comments were mainly about usability, not sound quality.

Reading through your post, I find that I agree 100% (except for the no sin part so let's call it 98%)

I'll also add that the 12V trigger on the STR is handy

The only issue I had with the STR was having to use the beta software because of an issue due to using my amps on a low gain setting, otherwise the usability was pretty flawless.

 

[ex audiophile]

Thanks for the great response. I'd actually like your opinion on the Anthem STR sound quality vs. other components with arguably "better" DACs.

If Anthem used either an AKM4493 or ESS Sabre 9028/9038, I'd totally be sold.

What really attracts me about the Anthem is the sub integration and ARC. I really like the way my system sounds with classical/jazz/instrumentals, and classic rock, but prefer listening to music on my "lesser" HT system for modern pop, dance type music, and anything that is a poor recording. It would be great if I could have 2 ARC settings, one <400-500 Hz for things that already sound good and full range for things that don't. Not sure if it can do that.

I have 3 STR preamps, two for 2 channel setups and one for HT integration. I love them, and yes you can set up multiple profiles that vary the settings for frequency range and number of speakers as well as type of subwoofer integration. For example you could have profile one that included no sub at all and full range; a second profile with your sub included and limited to 400hz or whatever. In one of my 2 channel setups I have a profile for two subs but considered as one in mono, a second profile for two subs each in mono and a third profile for two subs in stereo. The STR also does phase matching BTW, with phase matching unique to each profile. You can switch back and forth between profiles very quickly and it makes it easy to determine which protocol you prefer. For instance in my case I always prefer the one sub/mono configuration even though I have two subs. Interesting, that is the protocol recommended in the STR manual. Anyway, I could go on but IMHO the STR preamp should be audio component of the year (for the past several years). As commented by @Mike-48 it is night/day easier and more flexible than the Studio, with much better build quality, again just my opinion. They're also in demand these days and if for some reason it didn't work out you could sell it for most of what you paid. I checked ebay and found one demo unit for $3500 plus shipping. Buying a new one will require a wait, as I understand it, as they are backed up at Anthem until Spring.

 

[Mike-48]

Thanks for the great response. I'd actually like your opinion on the Anthem STR sound quality vs. other components with arguably "better" DACs.

If Anthem used either an AKM4493 or ESS Sabre 9028/9038, I'd totally be sold.

It does use an AKM chipset, but I don't know which one. There is much more to a good-sounding DAC than the choice of chipset -- quality of implementation is key -- and Anthem knows what they are doing with this chip.

In my system, the Anthem STR replaced a Classé CP-800, a more expensive DAC-preamp and one that was, e.g., John Atkinson's reference while he was editor of Stereophile. When the DSP is engaged on both units, the Anthem STR sounds far better to my ears (which is why I bought it). Its DSP is considerably more transparent (free of side effects) than the DSP in the Classé, which like some other DSP units I've tried, adds a bit of hardness and strain to the sound, at least on some material. The STR has none of that and is a lot more usable, as well, with four profiles and software to configure the DSP automatically.

In theory, I prefer manual configuration of DSP; in practice, I get better results from ARC than I ever did from manual configuration. It has been said (and credited to different people) that the difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference, but in practice, there is.

Anyway, ARC provides pretty good opportunity for user intervention if wanted -- not quite enough to meet my ideal, but enough that I'm more than happy with the results. Since I got it, I auditioned a Benchmark DAC3 out of curiosity, but its better conversion (if it was better -- I didn't hear it) was lost in the lack of DSP control of the bass. The net result was a big step down in sound quality. I sent it back immediately.

Hope that helps.

 

[xirtam2005]

Wow, that is a serious HF bump there! I think even my old ears could pick up on that one.

FWIW, I was going to get Paradigm Signature S8 v3 for my dedicated 2 channel critical listening system. I was so happy with the voicing of that Signature V3 line for HT, I wanted to go with the best of that line for 2 channel. Since it was discontinued, purchased a dealer demo model - unfortunately they were damaged in shipping. Since they were discontinued and dealer felt bad about shipping damage, got an incredibly good deal on the Personas right when they first came out. However I did purchase them sight unseen. I had never seen the Persona measurements until today.

Here are the measurements for the S8 V2, which should be similar enough to the V3 I wanted to get - that's what I selected after auditioning multiple competitors at that price level.

Paradigm Reference Signature Speaker System Measurements

Measurements All the measurements presented here were taken with the grilles removed. The measured responses with the grilles in place (not shown) were slightly more uneven above 2.0kHz, but the degradation appeared relatively benign. The nominal impedances were determined from interpretation of...

www.soundandvision.com

That said I love the microdynamics, articulation, transparency, imaging, and general sound of the Personas.

My ideal speaker would be all the things I like about the Personas but with a Signature frequency response.

My Personas sound much better than my Signatures on classical, jazz, instrumentals, well recorded classic rock, but I prefer the Signatures for modern pop/electronic and normal rock music. Nothing sounds "bad" on the Signatures to me. Personas do give me slight fatigue on modern pop/electronic recordings, not the Signatures. Bad recordings sound terrible on the Personas, but sound "less good" on the Signatures but still listenable.

As long as ARC doesn't adversely impact the things I like about the Personas, maybe the Anthem STR PRE with ARC is worth an audition.

 

[xirtam2005]

Cheers Sal

Did you ever get your Anthem STR Preamp? Have you used it and tried ARC? I'm considering auditioning one when they become available later this Spring. Do we know if Anthem was planning to change anything in the 2022 re-release, or is it exactly the same components and DAC as before?