I would think objectively speaking this is the case, but if someone likes the aesthetic (I do, and especially if paired with the MCA gen 2 power amp) of Anthem's, and like the fact that they used the best/near best available DAC IC (I do too) even if the difference is not audible, then I think the AVM70 is a great choice even this late in the cycle, but only if it is on sale. I would not have second thought choosing Anthem's over NAD's but I said what I said because the OP already own the T778.
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Anthem AVM70 Review (AV Processor)
- Thread starter amirm
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I would think objectively speaking this is the case, but if someone likes the aesthetic (I do, and especially if paired with the MCA gen 2 power amp) of Anthem's, and like the fact that they used the best/near best available DAC IC (I do too) even if the difference is not audible, then I think the AVM70 is a great choice even this late in the cycle, but only if it is on sale. I would not have second thought choosing Anthem's over NAD's but I said what I said because the OP already own the T778.
They do look quite nice, FR in the 20-170 Hz range is within +/- 5 dB peak to peak, 1/12 smoothing, after a few hours of manual adjusting. The blue trace, for the left seat wasn't as good, but that was expected.
After working on it for a few hours, it is now basically in par with Audyssey based on the ref target curve without tweaking with the app. DLBC, and Audy with the app would do significantly better, but in terms subjective impression, I didn't find too much of a difference, but that would obviously vary a lot among people, some are more sensitive to even minor changes in FR, decay time etc., whereas some more focus on enjoying the music and get less distracted by minor FR differences.
I did the following (Left channel only) just for comparison, you can see that with ARC did make a lot of improvements in the 20-200 Hz range, but didn't do much, if anything to the range above that, if fact may even make it a little worse.
Again on AVSF, the vast majority of the posters had great things about ARC G, especially for those who sent the file to their resident guru (a very helpful member) and get it tweaked, site unseen, go figure right... It's an easy process, when people are 100% trust their ears type, never bother to see any graphs like some of us crazy people do lol.
Left channel, ARC G enabled vs disabled, mmp vs left seat:
Why Anthem AVM 70?
1. HDMI 2.1
2. NAD T778 failed within warranty and was repaired, amp boards. Now warranty ended.
3. Anthem Aesthetics and match my other components.
4. I like ARC, as well as the flexibility of Anthem setup, menu, inputs, etc.
5. Sale of NAD T778 covers 35% of AVM 70
1. HDMI 2.1
2. NAD T778 failed within warranty and was repaired, amp boards. Now warranty ended.
3. Anthem Aesthetics and match my other components.
4. I like ARC, as well as the flexibility of Anthem setup, menu, inputs, etc.
5. Sale of NAD T778 covers 35% of AVM 70
I already said why: The reason to upgrade to AVM 70 8K was HDMI 2.1 / HDR10+ support
Sorry I thought the T778 would support HDR10+, it’s an expensive unit to not have such support. Are you keeping it for a second system or plan on selling it?
Sold it already! Sale covers 35% of AVM 70.
Sly fox
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Looks like you've improved it as much as you can until (if/how much they can improve it, rc isn't my strong point yet, have used ypao which doesn't do too much and setting a microphone in different places is hardly taxing on the brain lol.
It's telling though that you rate Audyssey with the app higher for tweaking, not that I would know too much, though I do want an rc that has the options to tweak the sound to my liking.
The more I've heard about arc/Audyssey it can be a bit hit n miss and yet dirac seems to appeal a bit more especially now arts come to marantz, interesting to see how people rate these different rc's.
I ranked DLBC>XT32>ARCG based on:
a) effectiveness of FR and impulse response improvements, not based on subjective impressions in listening, but on graphs posted on AVSF (very few as you know, hard to find such few from over a thousand pages of posts) and ASR (quite a few by not just me, searchable easily).
b) manual adjustability.
On adjustability, if you read forum posts on AVSF, you might get the impression that they are great, best blabla but without details.
Here's an example:
You can see that the interface looks beautiful, in this sense I would reverse the ranking to ARC Genesis > XT32 ($200 app) = DLBC
If you look at the adjustability, that matters most, you can see the following limitations of this interface:
1) Room gain can be adjusted between 0 to 6, but if you grip the handle and move it between 0 and 6, the curve would move, but you cannot change the curve shape to the way you want it, you can stop it at the point it looks closer to what you want but that's it.
2) Deep bass Boost (dB) can be adjusted between 0 to 6, but same restriction as in 1), useful but a lot less useful than Audy and DL obviously.
3) For 1), you can vary the center frequency between 150 and 300 Hz, that would work not too bad if they allow multiple points of adjustments, but no, only 1 is allowed.
4) For 2), you can vary the center frequency between 20 and 80 Hz, same comments in 1) applies here.
5 ) Above is the so called system-wide target, so if you have 4 subs, or even 2, you will not be happy, well, unless you one of the AVSF fans on that huge Anthem thread.
6) For the front, and surround channels, when you make an adjustment, it will apply to the pairs only, no individually, vs Audy and DL's that let you do it on per channel basis.
Now, let's say your post calibration results show that there is major bump at around 55 Hz, Audy, DL, even YPAO/REW would let you level that off easily, yet with ARC G, there is no simple way of doing it. You can try lowering the room gain, and/or deep bass settings and try different center frequency, you may be able to lower the bump by a couple dB but it could/would make/create another trouble spot.
That's my major frustration, that Anthem would not improve on manual adjustability, never mind the nice looking graphics, but focus on allowing adjustments similar to Audy app (preferred), Dirac and REW's (PEQ/BIQUAD). For clarity though, while I managed to get excellent results with the $20 app, I had to use it with Radbudyssey (freeware) and it could a lengthy process similar to trying to make improvements with ARCG's beautiful interface.
So those keen on the benefits of RC, should budget $200 as minimum to include Audy's $200 app (they do offer discounts such as 25% iirc..) sometimes, or $700-$1000 to include The DL license. So Anthem wins on this as all models come with ARC G and the excellent mic kit.Anthem ARC G clearly has potential and I don't believe it would take them much to improve it to the point that it could match Audyssey+app in terms of effectiveness, but I understand for a relatively small company, they might not want to risk investing their resources on something when the vast majority of their customers seem happy enough, many even think ARC G is already the best, much better than Audy and DL. That's great for them, but it does leave some of us (I know I am not the only one), seeing that they have great potential but might not get developed further in terms user adjustability and effectiveness.
D+M owners also has another trump card option, that many users like the fact that it is an automated process, using REW to do the RC/EQ part and yielded great result quickly, that's thanks to @OCA 's freeware:
I asked if he would do the same for Anthem AVR/AVM owners but he said he had done a script that decodes the ARCG file but could not do more as he's not going to buy a device to continue the work on that, sadly..
Sly fox
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Didn't realise it was that restrictive, as you say i don't think it take to much to add on the extra options for that subjective taste, but people don't seem to be asking for it, i don't think anyone dares else they get jumped on and its proclaimed to be the best thing since sliced bread lol.I ranked DLBC>XT32>ARCG based on:
a) effectiveness of FR and impulse response improvements, not based on subjective impressions in listening, but on graphs posted on AVSF (very few as you know, hard to find such few from over a thousand pages of posts) and ASR (quite a few by not just me, searchable easily).
b) manual adjustability.
On adjustability, if you read forum posts on AVSF, you might get the impression that they are great, best blabla but without details.
Here's an example:
You can see that the interface looks beautiful, in this sense I would reverse the ranking to ARC Genesis > XT32 ($200 app) = DLBC
If you look at the adjustability, that matters most, you can see the following limitations of this interface:
1) Room gain can be adjusted between 0 to 6, but if you grip the handle and move it between 0 and 6, the curve would move, but you cannot change the curve shape to the way you want it, you can stop it at the point it looks closer to what you want but that's it.
2) Deep bass Boost (dB) can be adjusted between 0 to 6, but same restriction as in 1), useful but a lot less useful than Audy and DL obviously.
3) For 1), you can vary the center frequency between 150 and 300 Hz, that would work not too bad if they allow multiple points of adjustments, but no, only 1 is allowed.
4) For 2), you can vary the center frequency between 20 and 80 Hz, same comments in 1) applies here.
5 ) Above is the so called system-wide target, so if you have 4 subs, or even 2, you will not be happy, well, unless you one of the AVSF fans on that huge Anthem thread.
6) For the front, and surround channels, when you make an adjustment, it will apply to the pairs only, no individually, vs Audy and DL's that let you do it on per channel basis.
Now, let's say your post calibration results show that there is major bump at around 55 Hz, Audy, DL, even YPAO/REW would let you level that off easily, yet with ARC G, there is no simple way of doing it. You can try lowering the room gain, and/or deep bass settings and try different center frequency, you may be able to lower the bump by a couple dB but it could/would make/create another trouble spot.
That's my major frustration, that Anthem would not improve on manual adjustability, never mind the nice looking graphics, but focus on allowing adjustments similar to Audy app (preferred), Dirac and REW's (PEQ/BIQUAD). For clarity though, while I managed to get excellent results with the $20 app, I had to use it with Radbudyssey (freeware) and it could a lengthy process similar to trying to make improvements with ARCG's beautiful interface.
Anthem ARC G clearly has potential and I don't believe it would take them much to improve it to the point that it could match Audyssey+app in terms of effectiveness, but I understand for a relatively small company, they might not want to risk investing their resources on something when the vast majority of their customers seem happy enough, many even think ARC G is already the best, much better than Audy and DL. That's great for them, but it does leave some of us (I know I am not the only one), seeing that they have great potential but might not get developed further in terms user adjustability and effectiveness.
D+M owners also has another trump card option, that many users like the fact that it is an automated process, using REW to do the RC/EQ part and yielded great result quickly, that's thanks to @OCA 's freeware:
I asked if he would do the same for Anthem AVR/AVM owners but he said he had done a script that decodes the ARCG file but could not do more as he's not going to buy a device to continue the work on that, sadly..
View attachment 492744
Have noticed that there isn't many arcg graphs up, I know they just send them to the guru to sort them, but was a lot more interested in the Dirac graphs that people were working on, I could actually see them and draw my own conclusions to see if the comments matched mine, and with dlbc and art for me it was a no brainer, I could sit there for hours tailoring it to exactly how I wanted it.
I looked at magic beans, measuring the response on each speaker to get a tailored curve, though I'm not sure how effective it'd be vs what I could do myself. If push comes to shove i might try it though it'd have to be a big shove at that price lol.
It's a bit of a shame really when arc could be so much better, and I was definitely getting an avm at one point, but looking at dirac and asking people in the know shows dirac has the potential to be exactly how I'd like it.
Arcg reminds me of ypao low bass that they released with the new models, there was only that one option in bass control to manage bass but in the others there was less filters which meant I couldn't tailor it which made it a bit restrictive, I certainly don't want that situation again.
I see that you have the RX-A8A. If you use the available 7 band (iirc) PEQ on top of YPAO for the deep bass range, say 20-200 Hz, I am quite sure it will outperform ARC G.
Sly fox
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Think ypao uses the peq's for its equalisation. Couldn't use extra for the bass.
I don't know much about that other than what I understood from Gene, it you haven't watched his video on the A6A, you can try watching it from about 12 minute:
He said he heard night and day better when he did his manual tweaks, but of course he might have exaggerated it just to make a point.
And here's a site where they talked about how to do it:
Mastering Manual PEQ Edits: Elevate Your Yamaha YPAO Room Correction for Precision Audio Calibration - Simple Home Cinema
- Mastering Manual PEQ Edits: Elevate Your Yamaha YPAO Room Correction for Precision Audio Calibration
simplehomecinema.com
And the part that I like, and feel that Anthem should offer the same flexibility is as it described:
As it is now, and as I mentioned in my last post, ARC G does not let you pick the frequency points, you are forced by their interface to make adjustments globally within the frequency range (via their so called centered frequency). It is basically like trying to use PEQ, but can only select frequency and gain, but without specifying a "Q", that really is silly, yet....
PEQ Filters Offer More Precise Adjustments
While YPAO’s automatic PEQ filters correct the tonal balance between speakers, they may not act with the precision required by complex room environments. Manually choosing specific frequencies allows you to control Q-settings, particularly for your main speakers or surround speakers, ensuring a flatter or more customized response.PEQ Filters Offer More Precise Adjustments
While YPAO’s automatic PEQ filters correct the tonal balance between speakers, they may not act with the precision required by complex room environments. Manually choosing specific frequencies allows you to control Q-settings, particularly for your main speakers or surround speakers, ensuring a flatter or more customized response.
Sly fox
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Yeah I definitely need a laptop because my adjustments were all on screen and I need one for rew to take some measurements.I don't know much about that other than what I understood from Gene, it you haven't watched his video on the A6A, you can try watching it from about 12 minute:
He said he heard night and day better when he did his manual tweaks, but of course he might have exaggerated it just to make a point.
View attachment 493215
And here's a site where they talked about how to do it:
Mastering Manual PEQ Edits: Elevate Your Yamaha YPAO Room Correction for Precision Audio Calibration - Simple Home Cinema
- Mastering Manual PEQ Edits: Elevate Your Yamaha YPAO Room Correction for Precision Audio Calibration
And the part that I like, and feel that Anthem should offer the same flexibility is as it described:
As it is now, and as I mentioned in my last post, ARC G does not let you pick the frequency points, you are forced by their interface to make adjustments globally within the frequency range (via their so called centered frequency). It is basically like trying to use PEQ, but can only select frequency and gain, but without specifying a "Q", that really is silly, yet....
PEQ Filters Offer More Precise Adjustments
While YPAO’s automatic PEQ filters correct the tonal balance between speakers, they may not act with the precision required by complex room environments. Manually choosing specific frequencies allows you to control Q-settings, particularly for your main speakers or surround speakers, ensuring a flatter or more customized response.
PEQ Filters Offer More Precise Adjustments
While YPAO’s automatic PEQ filters correct the tonal balance between speakers, they may not act with the precision required by complex room environments. Manually choosing specific frequencies allows you to control Q-settings, particularly for your main speakers or surround speakers, ensuring a flatter or more customized response.
Manual is where you can make adjustments, but certain filters don't let you go below a certain frequency, but i do have a pb2000 pro so I could use the peq's in that app to fine tune, although another user wasn't too happy after spending a lot of time attempting it with his yamaha.
Gene didn't seem to follow up the measurements with a review which he said he'd do and theres been a bit of radio silence since, so whether he had a difference of opinion I'm not sure.
What advantages does dirac have over this way? It's certainly useful getting used to rew and I could see what its capable of which tbh i should have already done, especially when considering dirac.
That websites useful, that was a good find, although I do think they put a bit of shine on to sell they're book, but its advice is something to use when eq'in it.
I'm looking at some laptops now, shouldn't need to much to run rew and later dirac.
Definitely appreciated you finding extra options which I haven't done yet, will find out how effective i can get them.
With Dirac, there is practical no limit, vs Yamaha's 7 band PEQ. It is also much more flexible, you can shape your target curve to almost any shape you want. Also, Dirac uses mixed filters, IIR and FIR. YPAO's basically PEQ, that is IIR.
Sly fox
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So dirac is more flexible and can get better results if applied properly, plus with the different filters I might should be able to achieve more.
Will see how far I can get with the yamaha because it'll be a while before I get dirac, should be good practice.
Same for me, it could be a while before I get a Denon, because unless there is a huge price drop it just feel silly to get one and then have pay another $1,000 to get all the licenses, when I have already paid hundreds for my DLBC PC standalone license.
Sly fox
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Yeah I can see you're point.
Hi all!
I received my AVM 70 today, and I am joining the club of proud owners.
Setup was easy, I am yet to calibrate with ARC Genesis.
I have one problem and I am looking for help.
There is very slight but annoying hiss/buzz from all speakers, constant and not changing with volume +/-. It is bearly audible at the MLP, but distinct at close distance less than 1/2 meter.
I would like to eliminate this noise. Let me describe the setup.
1. All interconnect cables are RCA at the moment, lengths are from 0.5 meters to 0.75 meteres. All HDMI cables are 8K certified But cheap brand HAMA, lengths are 1 and 2 meteres.
2. AVM 70 L/R and Subs L/R preout are connected to STR preamp for HT Bypass.
3. AVM 70 Center and Surround L/R are connected to MCA 525 Gen2.
4. HDMI sources: a) Blu-Ray Player; b) Dune HD Pro 8K.
5. HDMI eARC to TV Samsung QN900B.
6. Anthem STR L/R preout are connected to STR amp.
7. Anthem STR Sub L/R out are connected to a pair of subwoofers.
8. All equipment is plugged into the same power bar, which has NIF filtering, surge protection, and DC blocking.
I did troubleshooting, and narrowed down the source of hiss/buzz to be the HDMI eARC connection to the TV.
If I unplug the HDMI eARC from AVM 70, there is no noise whatsoever.
TV has only two cables plugged HDMI eARC and cable TV.
Unplugging the cable TV does not make a difference, it is an optical cable to the TV box, and a short antennae cable to the TV.
Question: will a better HDMI cable eliminate hiss/buzz?
Additionally, I have some XLR cables, and tried them out. I connected AVM 70 L/R pre out XLR to XLR of STR preamp. The hiss/buzz from L/R is eliminated to about 98% - still some, but it is more a hiss now, and only audible at a distance of 10-20 centimeters. Noise from centre and surround channels remains, as they are still connected via RCA.
Please help with above, how to eliminate the hiss/buzz from the system.
I received my AVM 70 today, and I am joining the club of proud owners.
Setup was easy, I am yet to calibrate with ARC Genesis.
I have one problem and I am looking for help.
There is very slight but annoying hiss/buzz from all speakers, constant and not changing with volume +/-. It is bearly audible at the MLP, but distinct at close distance less than 1/2 meter.
I would like to eliminate this noise. Let me describe the setup.
1. All interconnect cables are RCA at the moment, lengths are from 0.5 meters to 0.75 meteres. All HDMI cables are 8K certified But cheap brand HAMA, lengths are 1 and 2 meteres.
2. AVM 70 L/R and Subs L/R preout are connected to STR preamp for HT Bypass.
3. AVM 70 Center and Surround L/R are connected to MCA 525 Gen2.
4. HDMI sources: a) Blu-Ray Player; b) Dune HD Pro 8K.
5. HDMI eARC to TV Samsung QN900B.
6. Anthem STR L/R preout are connected to STR amp.
7. Anthem STR Sub L/R out are connected to a pair of subwoofers.
8. All equipment is plugged into the same power bar, which has NIF filtering, surge protection, and DC blocking.
I did troubleshooting, and narrowed down the source of hiss/buzz to be the HDMI eARC connection to the TV.
If I unplug the HDMI eARC from AVM 70, there is no noise whatsoever.
TV has only two cables plugged HDMI eARC and cable TV.
Unplugging the cable TV does not make a difference, it is an optical cable to the TV box, and a short antennae cable to the TV.
Question: will a better HDMI cable eliminate hiss/buzz?
Additionally, I have some XLR cables, and tried them out. I connected AVM 70 L/R pre out XLR to XLR of STR preamp. The hiss/buzz from L/R is eliminated to about 98% - still some, but it is more a hiss now, and only audible at a distance of 10-20 centimeters. Noise from centre and surround channels remains, as they are still connected via RCA.
Please help with above, how to eliminate the hiss/buzz from the system.
Reading so much negativity on the Anthem AVM 90 is very interesting, but to each their own!
Well, I am the proud owner of an Anthem AVM 90 since it first came out in 2022, and it works beautifully for my 9.4.6 audio system, I was fortunate enough to buy the demo unit which only had a week on it and paid much less than the original price since theoretically it was used
Hopefully the AVM90 will last at least seven or better yet ten years which is my upgrading cycle for pre-pro. Used to own an AVM 60 that I purchased in 2016.
My solid state amplifiers are over 15 years old and still working fine!
Looking forward to seeing what Anthem will release next, but than won’t happen for another couple of years at least.
Well, I am the proud owner of an Anthem AVM 90 since it first came out in 2022, and it works beautifully for my 9.4.6 audio system, I was fortunate enough to buy the demo unit which only had a week on it and paid much less than the original price since theoretically it was used
Hopefully the AVM90 will last at least seven or better yet ten years which is my upgrading cycle for pre-pro. Used to own an AVM 60 that I purchased in 2016.
My solid state amplifiers are over 15 years old and still working fine!
Looking forward to seeing what Anthem will release next, but than won’t happen for another couple of years at least.
Last edited:
Just curious:
Is there a comparison/measurements of AVM 70 SINAD of RCA vs XLR? I know AVM 90 performs better on RCA out...
The unit tested by Amir in this thread seems to be the early with AKM DACs. Later Anthem switched to ESS - is there a measurable change in SINAD, or about the same? Has anyone measured?
Trying to understand how much I will lose, if I switch to XLR cables to resolve the humm/buzz. I purposefully purchased RCA cables in the hopes to be better, did not expect humm/buzz from speakers...
Is there a comparison/measurements of AVM 70 SINAD of RCA vs XLR? I know AVM 90 performs better on RCA out...
The unit tested by Amir in this thread seems to be the early with AKM DACs. Later Anthem switched to ESS - is there a measurable change in SINAD, or about the same? Has anyone measured?
Trying to understand how much I will lose, if I switch to XLR cables to resolve the humm/buzz. I purposefully purchased RCA cables in the hopes to be better, did not expect humm/buzz from speakers...
