Anthem AVM60 Review (AV Processor)

[tparm]

FYI Anthem has kindly contacted me. I am following up. Nothing else to report.

No word yet @amirm? Curiosity getting to me...

 

[DuncanTodd]

The cost to setup blind testing, ensure the listeners aren't just trained, but have excellent 20-20kHz hearing, creating a properly treated room, using only speakers that everyone reading will agree are the best of the best, etc., etc., would cost in the $ millions (and you'd still find someone complaining that something isn't quite right, or the listeners are somehow corrupt). And this is why ASR uses the 115 dB threshold, because it is beyond any human hearing and it costs way less than humans listening in a controlled environment.

That's if you want to make it into a study and prove/disprove it on a large sample of participants.
As a single user, I only care about what I can hear or not hear with my speakers and space. If I could test it on own and hear no difference, that would be enough for me. Having an objective large scale study that can save me the trouble would be greatly appreciated though

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

I guess in a typical untreated listening room, and with passive speakers, the room itself makes much more audible difference than an amp ever could.

Aye, the room is the "elephant in the room" in terms of audio quality and 95% of the audiophiles completely neglect it.
I would even go as far as to say that the room is more important than the speakers itself because the worlds best speaker can sound crappy in a bad room.

It's insane how the room can make or break your setup.

My buddy (the one that tested the Cambridge combo) had to realize that when he moved. In the new room, his Focals sound horrible, muddy, no bass whatsoever etc. Not the fault of the hardware, I told him that he needed to treat it or fill it up with stuff (too much reverb since he refuses to put much stuff into it).

As a single user, I only care about what I can hear or not hear with my speakers and space. If I could test it on own and hear no difference, that would be enough for me.

You can. You just have to be brutally honest with yourself. If you have to go back and forth multiple times and strain to hear a difference, you can already be sure that there is no difference worth mentioning in practical scenarios.

E.g.: with the DSP off, I can hear no difference between my shiny new ADI-2 DAC and my old Titanium HD soundcard when using the DT-880 (that isn't modified much by the difference in output impedance).

Problem is: if you want to upgrade and want your new hardware to sound better, it most likely will. Our brain is so easily tricked, it even tricks itself.

 

[respice finem]

Our brain is so easily tricked, it even tricks itself.

This. And, in many cases no one can even tell which is the "right" sound. Even if you were present at time of recording, in the jazz club , or philharmonic etc., at every seating place you have different sound, and your place was guaranteed not at the microphone(s). Then, when comparing stuff, the louder sound will be perceived as better (popular error with comparing speakers, the more efficient win). Nothing is ever perfect.
"To search for perfection is all very well, but to look for heaven, is to live here in hell" (Sting)

 

[peng]

I’m not advocating any particular method for establishing whether amp A sounds better than amp B. I’m just asking whether two amps with inaudible levels of distortion at a given output sound the same (all things being equal)? Then I’m intrigued as to why people buy expensive kit, if there is no audible benefit in doing so.

Okay but that's the case it narrows things down if "all things" include other factors that may matter. Aside from distortions, obviously frequency response is just as important if not more, but it is getting close to the answer that the amps may just sound the same or very hard tell a difference for most people. I don't know about others, though I can guess, but I can tell you I bought my amps for several reasons, one being sound quality related but that was years ago when I didn't know or understand what I knew and understood years later.

 

[DuncanTodd]

You can. You just have to be brutally honest with yourself. If you have to go back and forth multiple times and strain to hear a difference, you can already be sure that there is no difference worth mentioning in practical scenarios.

E.g.: with the DSP off, I can hear no difference between my shiny new ADI-2 DAC and my old Titanium HD soundcard when using the DT-880 (that isn't modified much by the difference in output impedance).

Problem is: if you want to upgrade and want your new hardware to sound better, it most likely will. Our brain is so easily tricked, it even tricks itself.

I know I can cause I'm such a skeptic May not be true to others. I got a DAC to see if I can tell the difference bewteen using my CD player connected directly to the amp or with it going through a DAC first. I can safely say that at least with the level of other equipment I have and my hearing, I hear 0 difference.
The problem for me is how to set 2 AVR/Amps with the same speakers and be able to switch between them on the fly. I asked about it earlier on and was told a switch box, but I'm having trouble envisioning how that would move the speakers from one amp to another.
Anyway, I'm not planning on doing any upgrades, I'm just interested to know how to do it theoretically.

 

[Dimifoot]

The problem for me is how to set 2 AVR/Amps with the same speakers and be able to switch between them on the fly. I asked about it earlier on and was told a switch box, but I'm having trouble envisioning how that would move the speakers from one amp to another.

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/sour...tch-for-speakers-amplifiers-black-p-5400.html

 

[DuncanTodd]

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/sour...tch-for-speakers-amplifiers-black-p-5400.html

Awesome, thanks. Can a switch box cause any sort of deterioration? I mean, do I need to make sure I get a specific brand?

This is the only way I would trust myself with comparing, anything that involves even a few seconds of "downtime" when moving from one to the other would not work for me.

 

[yanm]

Long time reader but first time poster. Just chiming in as an happy owner of an Anthem MRX720. This review has made me very concerned. Either this unit is defective or the AVM60 has a design issue. I don't really care that it may not be audible because if this is a design issue, it means that the designers, engineers, and quality control assigned to this project (their flagship pre/pro!!) were sloppy. This would be a very bad sign for Anthem...

Note that engineering of DACs (and ADCs) are notoriously tricky: I've seen firsthand how bad design practices (e.g., PCB layout, clocking) can ruin a top-notch component. I indeed remember this one time where our research team designed a DAC around a high-end 24bit chip and ended up with 5bit ENOB (at least we did catch it and the design was never intended for customers anyway ).

 

[RichB]

Problem is: if you want to upgrade and want your new hardware to sound better, it most likely will. Our brain is so easily tricked, it even tricks itself.

Then, you got what you paid for

- Rich

 

[RichB]

I know I can cause I'm such a skeptic May not be true to others. I got a DAC to see if I can tell the difference bewteen using my CD player connected directly to the amp or with it going through a DAC first. I can safely say that at least with the level of other equipment I have and my hearing, I hear 0 difference.
The problem for me is how to set 2 AVR/Amps with the same speakers and be able to switch between them on the fly. I asked about it earlier on and was told a switch box, but I'm having trouble envisioning how that would move the speakers from one amp to another.
Anyway, I'm not planning on doing any upgrades, I'm just interested to know how to do it theoretically.

I plan on comparing the AT525NC to the Benchmark AHB2 sometime in the next month. I was going to do this earlier but life intervened.

Here is the plan:

• Use Roon to a RPI3 DietPi Roon Bridge as the source.
• Use the SHD 4 DACs to copy out 1 to 3 and 2 to 4 for simultaneous stereo output.
• Use a multi-meter and sine wave signals to gain match the outputs for each amp (this can be achieved with 0.5 dB, not ideal but not bad)
• Send each stereo output each set of channels to an A/B amplifier switch.
• Switch between inputs in a Single Blind Test

Here is the switch:
Amazon.com: Nobsound Stereo 2(1)-IN-1(2)-OUT Amplifier/Speaker Banana Female Audio Splitter/Switcher Passive Selector: Electronics

This may not satisfy others, but it is interesting what can be done at home.

- Rich

 

[TimoJ]

Awesome, thanks. Can a switch box cause any sort of deterioration? I mean, do I need to make sure I get a specific brand?

This is the only way I would trust myself with comparing, anything that involves even a few seconds of "downtime" when moving from one to the other would not work for me.

Forget manual switches, you'll need a switch box with relays and control it from you listening position. You also need a proper way to measure and adjust signal levels from your amps.

 

[RichB]

Forget manual switches, you'll need a switch box with relays and control it from you listening position. You also need a proper way to measure and adjust signal levels from your amps.

You just need long enough cables. I plan on placing amps an components on the table and just use longer wires to the speakers.

- Rich

 

[DuncanTodd]

I’m not advocating any particular method for establishing whether amp A sounds better than amp B. I’m just asking whether two amps with inaudible levels of distortion at a given output sound the same (all things being equal)? Then I’m intrigued as to why people buy expensive kit, if there is no audible benefit in doing so.

There are people who swear to be getting a huge improvement when they switched to this or that amp

I plan on comparing the AT525NC to the Benchmark AHB2 sometime in the next month. I was going to do this earlier but life intervened.

Here is the plan:

• Use Roon to a RPI3 DietPi Roon Bridge as the source.
• Use the SHD 4 DACs to copy out 1 to 3 and 2 to 4 for simultaneous stereo output.
• Use a multi-meter and sine wave signals to gain match the outputs for each amp (this can be achieved with 0.5 dB, not ideal but not bad)
• Send each stereo output each set of channels to an A/B amplifier switch.
• Switch between inputs in a Single Blind Test

Here is the switch:
Amazon.com: Nobsound Stereo 2(1)-IN-1(2)-OUT Amplifier/Speaker Banana Female Audio Splitter/Switcher Passive Selector: Electronics

This may not satisfy others, but it is interesting what can be done at home.

- Rich

Sounds like the perfect home comparison. I will bookmark this switch too. Thanks!

 

[DuncanTodd]

Forget manual switches, you'll need a switch box with relays and control it from you listening position. You also need a proper way to measure and adjust signal levels from your amps.

Yep. The switch part is what I was missing. Now I got to two bookmarked, so I'm theoretically prepared for when I'll need to do such
I have an SPL meter so I can get pretty close with level matching I believe.

 

[TimoJ]

Yep. The switch part is what I was missing. Now I got to two bookmarked, so I'm theoretically prepared for when I'll need to do such
I have an SPL meter so I can get pretty close with level matching I believe.

SPL meter isn't precise enough. You need to measure output voltages (with speaker load).

 

[Lsc]

No word yet @amirm? Curiosity getting to me...

Maybe the Anthem rep will say ok ok I hear you loud and clear. We will give you an AVM70 as you have made a lot of noise with the AVM60 and back pedal from their previous comment that a AVM70 won’t be available for ASR as they have many other reviewer who have priority. But if anyone here is willing to send Amir a sample, that’s ok too.

 

[DuncanTodd]

We will give you an AVM70 as you have made a lot of noise with the AVM60 and back pedal from their previous comment that a AVM70 won’t be available for ASR as they have many other reviewer who have priority.

Where did they say that?

 

[Bent Wookiee]

While pricy, if I ever wanted to really do hardcore equipment comparisons I'd get this: https://avahifi.com/products/abx-switch-comparator

 

[nathan]

I just checked and for both analog and HDMI input the mode button says, "None." For some reason, setup button no longer brings up the menus. I am going to pack the thing now and send it to its owner.....

Wow this is one broken unit. Very embarrassing for Anthem.