Anthem AVM60 Review (AV Processor)

[RHG55]

A little "games theory": It needs at least two. One will lose the "price war" against the (perceived) current upper class, or in the best case will end up in a small and very expensive niche. Two's company, and two is also competition. Saying it in John Nash style, the dumbest boy in the village would get the girl, if he were the only one

Unfortunately, I think that you don't quite understand the concept of a Nash equilibrium. Players can't do better by changing their respective decisions, but the equilibrium may be still be non ideal (e.g suboptimal) to all.

 

[Vasr]

Isn’t that a dubious approach? To use unbalanced preamplifier outputs to drive a hypex ncore amplifier with its differential inputs? From the ncore spec sheet: “Having made sufficiently clear that there is, in fact, no reason why anyone should ever want to waste a perfectly good balanced input by putting the module in a box with RCA inputs, it is likely that some will persist.” Etc

The spec sheet is talking to the amp manufacturers using their module who have the choice and hence a dubious approach.

For a consumer, there are still considerable benefits of using a Class D amp even without the balanced outs from a pre-amp especially if acquiring balanced outs require many compromises in costs or functionality of the pre-amp. So not at all dubious. The Class D amp is not defined by just its balanced inputs.

 

[Newman]

The spec sheet I quoted is for the DIY consumer model.

 

[Sal1950]

A sad showing for Anthem, I'm very disappointed in them.
With all sort of claims of being better than the run of the processor they fall right on their faces.
Fairly expensive junk they should be ashamed of.

 

[Dj7675]

A sad showing for Anthem, I'm very disappointed in them.
With all sort of claims of being better than the run of the processor they fall right on their faces.
Fairly expensive junk they should be ashamed of.

It is not good, in particular considering the pretty good performance of the MRX1120. I am interested in what comes of Anthem contacting Amir about their measurements etc. I wouldn't be surprised if there is something interesting that comes of it.

 

[Francis Vaughan]

The spec sheet I quoted is for the DIY consumer model.

They are identical. Just marketed differently. The point remains. The Purifi amps provide a balanced input. It is maybe a shame not to use it as you lose a tiny bit of signal to noise. But not using it does not otherwise reduce the amplifier’s performance. Maybe a different amplifier with lesser capability could be used to no ill effect. That is almost certainly true for any use of the Purifi amp. But there is no reason to insist that the amp be only ever used with balanced inputs. It will work perfectly with unbalanced.
As we see with so many AVRs, balanced output can actually be worse, because they convert from unbalanced internally and the performance gain is illusory. This seems to be true of the AVM-60 measured here. If you had the choice you would choose to use the unbalanced outputs to drive a Purifi amp. The end to end performance would be better. Balanced has an element of empty specmanship about it in domestic audio anyway.

 

[Newman]

It will work perfectly.... to a slightly lower spec.

Which rather mocks the word ‘perfectly’.

 

[respice finem]

Unfortunately, I think that you don't quite understand the concept of a Nash equilibrium. Players can't do better by changing their respective decisions, but the equilibrium may be still be non ideal (e.g suboptimal) to all.

It may well be suboptimal, but when there's only one player, it's essentially not a game any more, just "take it or leave it". The problem is, however, purely theoretical in this case, because a) when one player would arrive and initially succeed, others would emerge to have a share of the new market segment, and b) we have zero such players so far...

 

[peterk]

A sad showing for Anthem, I'm very disappointed in them.
With all sort of claims of being better than the run of the processor they fall right on their faces.
Fairly expensive junk they should be ashamed of.

I personally found it hard to believe that the AVM60 performs worse than their AVR's, not just the 1120, but even their cheapest MRX520... While i am a D2V3D owner, i heard the AVM60 in many setups in really different configurations and it was always very convincing. Personally think this review should have not been released before contacting Anthem first.

 

[DuncanTodd]

I personally found it hard to believe that the AVM60 performs worse than their AVR's, not just the 1120, but even their cheapest MRX520... While i am a D2V3D owner, i heard the AVM60 in many setups in really different configurations and it was always very convincing.

It may not subjectively sound noticeably worse to the human ear, it's just performs worse on the technical side according to this review.

 

[Roland]

It may not subjectively sound noticeably worse to the human ear, it's just performs worse on the technical side according to this review.

Why measure amps if those that measure well sound indistinguishable from those that measure badly?
Presumably people who have invested in Purifi or Hypex power amps do not experience an improvement in sound quality, they just have the ability to add a db or two (depending on the preamp output of their AVRs)?

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

Why measure amps if those that measure well sound indistinguishable from those that measure badly?
Presumably people who have invested in Purifi or Hypex power amps do not experience an improvement in sound quality, they just have the ability to add a db or two (depending on the preamp output of their AVRs)?

a) because it is just wrong to demand a premium amount of currency-units for sub standard engineering and laziness.

b) we do not know whether these faults are inaudible in all situations. It may be fine for 90% of the buyers but may pose a problem for 10%. Having measurements, every one of us can correlate them with our specific use-case and make a judgment call instead of having to fly blindly.

 

[DuncanTodd]

Why measure amps if those that measure well sound indistinguishable from those that measure badly?
Presumably people who have invested in Purifi or Hypex power amps do not experience an improvement in sound quality, they just have the ability to add a db or two (depending on the preamp output of their AVRs)?

If you had to choose between two products that meet all your requirements and one performs better technically and costs less/similarly/same, which would you choose?

 

[Roland]

If you had to choose between two products that meet all your requirements and one performs better technically and costs less/similarly/same, which would you choose?

I see your point, but if the product hadn’t been measured, you would never know that it performed technically better or worse, because you wouldn’t perceive any difference in the sound it makes.

There is a risk of developing a new audiophool dogma of “it measures better, so presumably it is better (even though I can’t hear it)”, rather than the old one of “it costs more or is from famous brand x, therefore it sounds better”.

 

[Doodski]

I see your point, but if the product hadn’t been measured, you would never know that it performed technically better or worse, because you wouldn’t perceive any difference in the sound it makes.

There is a risk of developing a new audiophool dogma of “it measures better, so presumably it is better (even though I can’t hear it)”, rather than the old one of “it costs more or is from famous brand x, therefore it sounds better”.

The better amps and DACs are so good now that they need to be measured to find the best of the best. How is that a bad thing especially when some are less expensive?

 

[DuncanTodd]

I see your point, but if the product hadn’t been measured, you would never know that it performed technically better or worse, because you wouldn’t perceive any difference in the sound it makes.

There is a risk of developing a new audiophool dogma of “it measures better, so presumably it is better (even though I can’t hear it)”, rather than the old one of “it costs more or is from famous brand x, therefore it sounds better”.

You are right, I can't tell. But if I want to make a jump from a $1000 Denon to a $3500 Anthem AVP or $2700-$3700 AVR, I would personally need more than forum and youtube hype. A bunch (or many) of people telling me it will sound much better isn't going to convince me to spend x2 or x3 the price I traditionally spent.

 

[Rottmannash]

Why measure amps if those that measure well sound indistinguishable from those that measure badly?
Presumably people who have invested in Purifi or Hypex power amps do not experience an improvement in sound quality, they just have the ability to add a db or two (depending on the preamp output of their AVRs)?

Why would you presume those of us who have invested in Purifi amps have not experienced an improvement in sound quality?

 

[peng]

They are identical. Just marketed differently. The point remains. The Purifi amps provide a balanced input. It is maybe a shame not to use it as you lose a tiny bit of signal to noise. But not using it does not otherwise reduce the amplifier’s performance. Maybe a different amplifier with lesser capability could be used to no ill effect. That is almost certainly true for any use of the Purifi amp. But there is no reason to insist that the amp be only ever used with balanced inputs. It will work perfectly with unbalanced.
As we see with so many AVRs, balanced output can actually be worse, because they convert from unbalanced internally and the performance gain is illusory. This seems to be true of the AVM-60 measured here. If you had the choice you would choose to use the unbalanced outputs to drive a Purifi amp. The end to end performance would be better. Balanced has an element of empty specmanship about it in domestic audio anyway.

Not according to Anthem, if you believe what they said. It does sound at least logical, to me anyway.

Frequently Asked Questions | Anthem® (anthemav.com)

"Are the XLR connections on the amps and preamps truly balanced?
Yes. All three pins of the XLR connection are part of the circuit, which means it's a real balanced connection. (If pin 3 is sent to ground or left open, as is sometimes the case, then an XLR jack is an adapter, not a balanced input.) The purpose of balanced connection is cancelling out certain types of interference and ground loops.
What about the whole circuit from front to back - is it fully balanced?
No. At some point the signal must become single-ended, or interference can't be cancelled. This is better done sooner rather than later in the signal chain. The purpose of a balanced stage within a circuit is cancelling out nonlinearities arising in the circuit itself, and/or to double the signal level while cancelling out some noise. This is purely a means, not an end. We use a balanced arrangement in specific areas within a circuit where it makes a meaningful difference. Doing this to an entire piece of equipment for the sake of using the catch phrase "fully balanced" may achieve nothing but a significant increase in cost, or worse if the two halves of the circuit aren't matched well."

 

[peng]

I personally found it hard to believe that the AVM60 performs worse than their AVR's, not just the 1120, but even their cheapest MRX520... While i am a D2V3D owner, i heard the AVM60 in many setups in really different configurations and it was always very convincing. Personally think this review should have not been released before contacting Anthem first.

I don't know why it would be hard to believe, but I am sure you are not alone on this......). Regardless, you may be right, that Anthem may just show much better results for the same kind of tests. But if not, I wouldn't be surprised either, after seeing several examples of the Denon and Marantz's, that the little AVR-X3600H measured better not just in one tests but most of the tests, than the much more expensive AVRs including D+M's own flagship AV8805 and SR8012, even slightly better than the SR8015 in pre out SINAD. I also do expect the AVM60 will be convincing (assuming we are talking about how they sound in setups with nice sounding speakers etc.), but I can say the same about some AVRs, such as those measured well by ASR. Just because its measured SINAD in a few tests is lower than that of some AVRs (whether it is in fact lower once confirmed by Anthem) on the bench does not mean it would perform worse than AVRs for real world use in terms of the so called "sound quality", let alone other benefits of using a preamp processor.

 

[SimpleTheater]

Why measure amps if those that measure well sound indistinguishable from those that measure badly?

Can you not distinguish between any amp? Count yourself lucky, because I am unfortunate to be able to pick up distortion relatively easily.

As @amirm has made very clear, once above a SINAD of 115dB no human being can hear a difference, and that is the goal. Now, if 99% (my made up stat) can't hear anything above 90 db, that's not the point of this site. The point of this site is to be able to say a product is guaranteed to be transparent to 100% of potential buyers and that requires a SINAD of 115 dB.