Anthem AVM60 Review (AV Processor)

[eycatcher]

Just not enough information. Is it just a lack of thorough testing? Why did the owner send it to a service center for testing before sending it here? How's this for a possible conclusion, dissatisfied consumer abusing free testing to escalate a customer satisfaction issue? Is shipping damage to blame for a broken processor? Corrupt firmware? Hardware issue?

You should not get pure noise from coax/optical with supported signals. I'm doubtful it is a bug. There are plenty of reviews and happy Anthem owners that have no issue with the coax/optical inputs. Continuing to test a defective product will always result in a failed review. This may be the effect of the review someone wants. Maybe I'm wrong but right now it's a mystery.

It's just sad that due to a bad test case a great company and product got a bad review, dissuading buyers. I suppose it can happen testing used equipment. I hope they get a chance to make it right and we get to see a test update including the analog side to make it complete.

 

[JSmith]

Why did the owner send it to a service center for testing before sending it here?

Yes agree this is a bit of a red flag.

I hope they get a chance to make it right

I'm sure Anthem are free to send a unit to Amirm for further testing if they would like to resolve this issue. Surely there are owners who have done similar tests... maybe they could post their results here?



JSmith

 

[Rottmannash]

Yes agree this is a bit of a red flag.

I'm sure Anthem are free to send a unit to Amirm for further testing if they would like to resolve this issue. Surely there are owners who have done similar tests... maybe they could post their results here?



JSmith

How many owners of any AVR own a $50,000 analyzer??

 

[Dj7675]

Just not enough information. Is it just a lack of thorough testing? Why did the owner send it to a service center for testing before sending it here? How's this for a possible conclusion, dissatisfied consumer abusing free testing to escalate a customer satisfaction issue? Is shipping damage to blame for a broken processor? Corrupt firmware? Hardware issue?

You should not get pure noise from coax/optical with supported signals. I'm doubtful it is a bug. There are plenty of reviews and happy Anthem owners that have no issue with the coax/optical inputs. Continuing to test a defective product will always result in a failed review. This may be the effect of the review someone wants. Maybe I'm wrong but right now it's a mystery.

It's just sad that due to a bad test case a great company and product got a bad review, dissuading buyers. I suppose it can happen testing used equipment. I hope they get a chance to make it right and we get to see a test update including the analog side to make it complete.

As has been mentioned, this isn’t the end of the story. Amir and Anthem are in contact with each other. Like a good company does that cares about performance, it sounds like they are working towards getting to the bottom of things. This first step on their part is a great thing to see. Companies that care about performance and make high performing products are the ones I am interested in. This still can work out to be a positive thing.

 

[Doodski]

Why did the owner send it to a service center for testing before sending it here? How's this for a possible conclusion, dissatisfied consumer abusing free testing to escalate a customer satisfaction issue?

Customers are free to send in product for service anytime they feel the need. There is no bad faith there and the service depot is happy to see some work come in the door.

Is shipping damage to blame for a broken processor? Corrupt firmware? Hardware issue?

Grasping at straws is what this seems like.

This may be the effect of the review someone wants. Maybe I'm wrong but right now it's a mystery.

The review someone wants? Conspiracy theories apparently abound.

t's just sad that due to a bad test case a great company and product got a bad review, dissuading buyers. I suppose it can happen testing used equipment. I hope they get a chance to make it right and we get to see a test update including the analog side to make it complete.

I doubt we will see the manufacturer supply a as new unit for evaluation and test. They don't even post proper specs.

 

[JSmith]

How many owners of any AVR own a $50,000 analyzer??

Fair point.

That said I know one person here in Aus, but surely is not common.



JSmith

 

[bluehalk]

Hmm...It took a while to have this unit reviewed.

Long time reader, first time poster. Been reading this forum for a long time but never really registered, only recently did, just so I can contact a forum member selling certain item that I wished to purchase.

Like many, I have gone though quite a few AVRs from verity of different brands (Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Sony, Pioneer, Integra, etc), and finally settled on Anthem AVRs and Anthem power amps and Anthem Integrated. When I say settled, what I mean was that these was the one AVR that really sounded great, huge, cinematic and being dead quiet and did things perfectly the way they were supposed to be. The first time I turned on Anthem 710 and after setting it up and listening, I had huge grin. Loved it so much that, I also upgraded to 720 when they came out and will now upgrade to AVM 70.

Being a happy owner of Anthem AVR from two different gens and also with their other products (power amps and integrated amp), all I can say is that this review does not seem to match my own and many of happy owner's experience. Something is not right, but then again, I know nothing about these measurements.

 

[Francis Vaughan]

what I mean was that these was the one AVR that really sounded great, huge, cinematic and being dead quiet and did things perfectly the way they were supposed to be.

Possibly the question here is: how much of this is down to the quality of the room EQ?

The problem is that for the most part the various AVRs are not that different in electronics quality. The measured distortion and noise are mostly on the border of audibility. For an AVR to make a clear difference in sound relative to another in the same setting the differences are going to reside in the audio processing. There have been a lot of complementary comments about the performance of the ARC system compared to other EQ systems. And it is clear that there are many places where things can go awry in AVRs in the software stack.

It isn't hard to imagine that Anthem are delivering one of the best EQ offerings, and that is what it worth paying for. The electronic side of their offerings OTOH seems a near clone in terms both design regime and effort of all the other manufactures - B grade at best.

Sadly evaluating the EQ systems is really hard. It isn't going to happen with any quantitative metrics any time soon. Indeed even qualitative measures are pretty lacking.

 

[bluehalk]

Possibly the question here is: how much of this is down to the quality of the room EQ?

The problem is that for the most part the various AVRs are not that different in electronics quality. The measured distortion and noise are mostly on the border of audibility. For an AVR to make a clear difference in sound relative to another in the same setting the differences are going to reside in the audio processing. There have been a lot of complementary comments about the performance of the ARC system compared to other EQ systems. And it is clear that there are many places where things can go awry in AVRs in the software stack.

It isn't hard to imagine that Anthem are delivering one of the best EQ offerings, and that is what it worth paying for. The electronic side of their offerings OTOH seems a near clone in terms both design regime and effort of all the other manufactures - B grade at best.

Sadly evaluating the EQ systems is really hard. It isn't going to happen with any quantitative metrics any time soon. Indeed even qualitative measures are pretty lacking.

Oh! I definitely agree. Room EQ from Anthem (ARC) is one of the best sound I ever had in my room.
So, yes personally for me, I would pay for Anthem gear, just so I can access their ARC room EQ, even if their hardware was subpar. Bass with Anthem ARC is hands down the best bass, I was able to get. At the end, what matter is what sounds best.

I even have Martin Logan Forte amp powering couple of speakers in one of my spare room. This is the same unit with different badge and body as Paradigm PW amp that was measured by Amirm and very poorly at that too. Even as being an Anthem Fan, I would say the measurement of Paradigm PW amp are very accurate and is a rubbish product, but having access to Anthem ARC and the positive effect it makes to sound in the room outweighs the measurements for me and I do not feel inclined to change that amp over others.

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

I wish multichannel audio wasn't such a dumb licensing and format mess.
It would be so much easier to just use a proper computer to do the processing and pipe the output into a "dumb" amp instead of having to rely on these "smart" AV components. Would save a ton of money too.

$3K just to get an AVR with Dirac Live is absurd.

 

[Deleted member 19122]

Hmm...It took a while to have this unit reviewed.

Long time reader, first time poster. Been reading this forum for a long time but never really registered, only recently did, just so I can contact a forum member selling certain item that I wished to purchase.

Like many, I have gone though quite a few AVRs from verity of different brands (Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Sony, Pioneer, Integra, etc), and finally settled on Anthem AVRs and Anthem power amps and Anthem Integrated. When I say settled, what I mean was that these was the one AVR that really sounded great, huge, cinematic and being dead quiet and did things perfectly the way they were supposed to be. The first time I turned on Anthem 710 and after setting it up and listening, I had huge grin. Loved it so much that, I also upgraded to 720 when they came out and will now upgrade to AVM 70.

Being a happy owner of Anthem AVR from two different gens and also with their other products (power amps and integrated amp), all I can say is that this review does not seem to match my own and many of happy owner's experience. Something is not right, but then again, I know nothing about these measurements.

In case you forgot..this is an OBJECTIVE,SCIENCE based audio forum.It's literally right there in the title.
Please stop cluttering up threads with your biased completely SUBJECTIVE,hence useless here OPINIONS
There are plenty of other forums for fan boy gushing.

 

[DuncanTodd]

I am the owner of the unit. What's important to know is that I intentionally had this unit checked out by the Paradigm Electronics Service Center at 203 Eggert Rd., Buffalo, NY 14215, prior to shipping it to Amir. Paradigm reported nothing wrong with the unit.

Would you mind elaborating about having the unit serviced first? Was there something you noticed was wrong or was it so you can be sure you are sending a properly working unit for review?
Was getting it reviewed part of a deciding process on whether to upgrade to the new line?

 

[DuncanTodd]

I’m comfortable saying sound is subjective and when it comes to our differences in perception. What's funny to me how many look at these measurements in absolute terms when they shouldn’t always.

Someone commented earlier that they took this unit off their wish list based on this review since it failed to make recommendation. Its really a matter of personal choice.

The majority of reviews available online is just promotional fluff, I don't see how this review is a bad thing other than not corresponding with what owners feel about their products. The electronics reviews here don't deal with subjective sound, just performance.

 

[DuncanTodd]

What does bug me about all of these pre-pro devices is how little effort is made to improve over the AVR with amplification they are based upon. For the money, it would not be a stretch to hope that the manufacturers might add a new board that included a really carefully designed set of DACs and balanced line drivers. Keep the faith and run a true balanced output from the DACs to the outputs. Make a proper effort to get the implementation up to the quality we see from modern desktop DACs. It really should not be that hard. Nor actually cost much. Time and time again we see that it isn't the cost of parts that sets a high quality DAC apart from its brethren, but just the care in implementation. The opportunity exists for any of the niche AVR players, like Anthem, to take that step and deliver to the market something superb, and do it for peanuts on the BOM. Imagine if the next test an AVR from someone like Anthem got a golfing panther. It would not be hard to do this, but it seems that there just isn't the will or interest. Yet it could be a marketing master-stroke. Actually deliver on the marketing promise and be seen to do so in independent tests.

There is a strong commercial logic. Their processors are cheaper than similar products in the market, especially the AVM70 that now offers the same channel count as the others. It's official MSRP is over a $1000 under HTP-1 or JBL/Arcam (in reality the prices for Harman products can be lower based on dealer flexibility) + they have complementing products to go with it that can appeal to whoever buy it, like their power amps.

Possibly the question here is: how much of this is down to the quality of the room EQ?

I suspect that's their biggest selling point over D&M and the likes.

As has been mentioned, this isn’t the end of the story. Amir and Anthem are in contact with each other. Like a good company does that cares about performance, it sounds like they are working towards getting to the bottom of things. This first step on their part is a great thing to see. Companies that care about performance and make high performing products are the ones I am interested in. This still can work out to be a positive thing.

Avoiding bad publicity is just as strong motivation as caring about the product. Certainly when your products cost a lot more than mass market products. There need to be a reason for someone to be convinced to make the jump from midline Denon AVR to Anthem.

 

[LTig]

How many owners of any AVR own a $50,000 analyzer??

A RME ADI-2 PRO is more than good enough to reveal the flaws of any AVP. This is true for all sound interfaces with the ADC having a SINAD which is at least 10 dB better than the SINAD of the tested device.

 

[ctakim]

Why high end? Will high end Denon sound better than the X3700H?

LOL because I already have a Denon X3600H in the family room for the TV there. The Anthem was to be for my dedicated Home Theater room and is supposed to be an upgrade! I gotta buy something to convince myself I am doing better!!

 

[Roland]

Hmm...It took a while to have this unit reviewed.

Long time reader, first time poster. Been reading this forum for a long time but never really registered, only recently did, just so I can contact a forum member selling certain item that I wished to purchase.

Like many, I have gone though quite a few AVRs from verity of different brands (Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Sony, Pioneer, Integra, etc), and finally settled on Anthem AVRs and Anthem power amps and Anthem Integrated. When I say settled, what I mean was that these was the one AVR that really sounded great, huge, cinematic and being dead quiet and did things perfectly the way they were supposed to be. The first time I turned on Anthem 710 and after setting it up and listening, I had huge grin. Loved it so much that, I also upgraded to 720 when they came out and will now upgrade to AVM 70.

Being a happy owner of Anthem AVR from two different gens and also with their other products (power amps and integrated amp), all I can say is that this review does not seem to match my own and many of happy owner's experience. Something is not right, but then again, I know nothing about these measurements.

I think that the empirical approach to evaluating audio equipment is great and long overdue, but I am also perplexed by this issue of certain kit sounding better, but not measuring better. I assume it’s all psychoacoustics. In which case all of the subjective reviews in the press are completely untrue and presumably the reviewers and editorial staff know that this is the case. Much like health and safety experts finding terrible risks and vulnerabilities where there are none, because they have a vested interest (like any other “experts”)!

 

[Doodski]

I think that the empirical approach to evaluating audio equipment is great and long overdue, but I am also perplexed by this issue of certain kit sounding better, but not measuring better. I assume it’s all psychoacoustics.

It's imagination and sighted bias.

In which case all of the subjective reviews in the press are completely untrue and presumably the reviewers and editorial staff know that this is the case. Much like health and safety experts finding terrible risks and vulnerabilities where there are none, because they have a vested interest (like any other “experts”)!

Most of the reviewers gooblygook talk is rubbish and whether they know it or not it's a issue. I don't think your analogy using health experts works here.

 

[JSmith]

sounding better

Subjective, at the behest of individual perception, so can only really apply to that person.

measuring

Not subjective.

Many forms of distortion and colouration are pleasing to the ear (like the "warmth" of vinyl), but that doesn't mean it's "correct". Personally if I want such distortion I would rather be able to control and add it myself via a DSP, rather than having it inbuilt to the product.



JSmith

 

[Dimifoot]

It's the room, ....