Anthem AVM60 Review (AV Processor)

[Vasr]

So I do take exception to your point about confusing the issue, not true unless taken out of context. As always, no problem agreeing to disagree, and move on.

Confusing the issue is necessitating a discussion of whether HTHF testing procedure supports your assertion or not based on whether they were consistent in their testing between the two units (there are superficial ones I pointed out) and if those tests were similar in inputs and settings to the tests done here (again superficial ones I pointed out). Without such a discussion, the assertions are unjustified and tangential to this discussion about the Anthem behavior. It would only serve to confuse the issue.

 

[RichB]

Shouldn't they also contact HTHF then? Do you mind sending your Anthem contact the links to HTHF's reviews too? As I mentioned before, their measurements were consistent with Amir's. In fact if you compared the following seemingly apples to apples tests, the results seem very comparable.

Unless I read it wrong, that's possible I guess, but if I read it right, HTHF's measurements for the AVM60 and MRX1120 were very comparable though strictly speaking the MRX1120 measured slightly better. That's in addition to being very similar to Amir's.

From the graphs, I can see that the THD+N were:

-88.8 dB for the MRX and -86.78 dB for the AVM,

So Amir's -90.5 dB was actually a little better.

To be clear, I have no concern with even 85 dB SINAD for the pre out, but I just want to highlight the fact that ASR's measurement results didn't seem to be that different from another independent review/bench tests, that is hometheaterhifi's, as far as I know theirs were done with the involvement of Dr. Rich who is a PhD in EE, as well as an electrical engineer.

I have to wonder, if Anthem's results were significantly better (we don't know yet obviously) then who do we believe, or perhaps we should then question their protocol? We already know they also use the AP (at least apparently).

Anthem AVM 60 Preamplifier Processor Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com
Anthem MRX 1120 A/V Receiver Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com

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The character of the distortion products looks different, but it does backup the ASR measurements.
ASR 90 dB SINAD = 0.0031623 and HTHFI has 0.004583. This difference could be envronmental.

- Rich

 

[Vasr]

I just checked and for both analog and HDMI input the mode button says, "None." For some reason, setup button no longer brings up the menus. I am going to pack the thing now and send it to its owner.....

May be there is something wrong with this unit in the software and it is stuck in some software setting state that has adverse effect on the measurements. It is a possibility one has to entertain given these symptoms. I have no position nor have any experience with this product. Just commenting on the test context.

I don't think this is an issue of separate hardware paths. These micro-processor controlled units control all kinds of processing paths in the chain and if there is an issue with the software processing that doesn't switch on or switch off certain paths or forces truncation or whatever regardless of path, then it could result in affecting results. Older the unit, more likely the case.

I had a unit that was distorting subtly because of an issue with the digital volume control which was very difficult to isolate. It wasn't even with the volume control per se but the signal from the volume control to the central controller that was getting disturbed with a corroded connection on the mother board which would make the microprocessor incorrectly set the pre-amp gain which would introduce more distortion, etc. But debugging it took all kind of paths testing for amp bias setting, etc.

 

[amirm]

May be there is something wrong with this unit in the software and it is stuck in some software setting state that has adverse effect on the measurements.

No. Machine is responsive otherwise. If CPU activity bleeds into analog output of the DAC, then that is an issue by itself.

 

[eycatcher]

To measure Anthem inputs like a "DAC" in the digital domain you would want to turn ARC(Anthem Room Correction) to "OFF" in the input setup. It defaults to ON which processes signals (downsamples the signal sample and bit rate for their room correction to reduce clipping and create more headroom) as does almost every other manufacturers room correction. The default setting is to force this is "ON" in the Anthem when factory defaulted or creating a new input regardless if there is a measurement file uploaded or not. Where other manufactures they typically have their room correction defaulted to "OFF" as default. This could explain the 16bit limit as the measurements data would support.

 

[Vasr]

No. Machine is responsive otherwise. If CPU activity bleeds into analog output of the DAC, then that is an issue by itself.

I wasn't talking about electrical interference from any CPU activity.

The firmware in these devices controls the exact path used from input to output in these devices. Whether a DSP in the path is switched on or off. Whether the analog input is digitized or not. Whether the room eq is turned on or off. Whether the parameters to the decoding chip is set correctly for the input, etc. If you are finding the firmware non-responsive or unable to take setting changes as you found, it could mean that it is stuck in some "fail-safe" mode or whatever the last setting was before it got hosed.

This can happen. Typically, unless there is an unlikely hardware chip/ROM issue, it can be fixed with a hard reset to factory defaults. If your procedure is always to do a factory reset before measuring (a prudent thing to do always), then this may not be the issue here.

 

[High Power Dude]

I think that it could be a user error or the unit could be defective. If the latter in my opinion it should not have been published. I don't know the source and I'm not the engineer here. I know first hand this unit should potentially score higher and sounds much better than others that have scored however sound is subjective...

I am the owner of the unit. What's important to know is that I intentionally had this unit checked out by the Paradigm Electronics Service Center at 203 Eggert Rd., Buffalo, NY 14215, prior to shipping it to Amir. Paradigm reported nothing wrong with the unit.

 

[Dj7675]

I am the owner of the unit. What's important to know is that I intentionally had this unit checked out by the Paradigm Electronics Service Center at 203 Eggert Rd., Buffalo, NY 14215, prior to shipping it to Amir. Paradigm reported nothing wrong with the unit.

Appreciate the info and also for taking the time and expense of sending it in.

 

[bigguyca]

Anthem is not very open about their design or the components used. Anthem doesn't provide representative measurements of their equipment.

Such behavior is never a good sign.

 

[eycatcher]

I am the owner of the unit. What's important to know is that I intentionally had this unit checked out by the Paradigm Electronics Service Center at 203 Eggert Rd., Buffalo, NY 14215, prior to shipping it to Amir. Paradigm reported nothing wrong with the unit.

Thanks for the update. Interesting news. I hope there is a simple resolution to get to the bottom of this so you do not have to send it back for service.

Don't be discouraged by the review or SINAD etc., the AVM60 is an awesome unit and it has superior sound potential.

 

[Doodski]

Appreciate the info and also for taking the time and expense of sending it in.

A typical test of a receiver for a energetic tech will involve testing the amp section into loads to clipping and using the various functions to ensure the unit is operating. For a not so energetic tech the receiver will play through some speakers. For a non-amplified processor they will use a output and run through some functions and call it a day. They do nothing like @amirm does when testing and metering the units.

 

[JSmith]

I trust my ears more than these measurements.

IMHO it's not about trust, it's about a balance between your perception and measurements... each only goes so far, together you have the whole picture.

In relation to this thread, AVR's have always been a compromise and these terrible results for a $3k Anthem are another example of same.



JSmith

 

[High Power Dude]

Thanks! We're all in this together. In the interim, I picked up the Denon AVR-X3600H and use just the pre-outs to my Hypex NCore amps (ATI and Nord), and the clarity is noticeable. I'm a big fan of Paradigm speakers and Anthem electronics. They are extremely passionate about what they do and are facing challenging times. What I need to understand is how AKM and every major DAC manufacturer provides schematics on how to properly utilize their chips to achieve full spec performance yet something happens during implementation and they fall short. Cost? I don't know. I wish Anthem were more forthcoming with their measurements but I fully agree with eycatcher, the AVM60 is an awesome unit and I've had a blast with it. I had a guest jump out of her seat during Gravity. I've spent many evenings entertaining friends with it for movies and music and they were more than impressed. I use Mogami XLR connections to my amps and, unless one did a direct comparison, you wouldn't know the measurements are what they are. For room correction I've run the gamut from Pioneer's MCACC to Sony's Digital Cinema Auto Calibration to Audyssey and ARC2 is special. I can't speak for Dirac Live, but in my experience, ARC2 and Trinnov are the top of the mountain. Back to Paradigm's testing and metering, I gave them a test to vet the unit for issues. As far as they're concerned, they informed me the unit was operating as designed. Draw your own conclusions. Cheers.

 

[eycatcher]

IMHO it's not about trust, it's about a balance between your perception and measurements... each only goes so far, together you have the whole picture.

In relation to this thread, AVR's have always been a compromise and these terrible results for a $3k Anthem are another example of same.



JSmith

I’m comfortable saying sound is subjective and when it comes to our differences in perception. What's funny to me how many look at these measurements in absolute terms when they shouldn’t always.

Someone commented earlier that they took this unit off their wish list based on this review since it failed to make recommendation. Its really a matter of personal choice.

 

[amirm]

Someone commented earlier that they took this unit off their wish list based on this review since it failed to make recommendation.

That is something to note? That is the effect of reviews. People seek them out and take them into consideration as to what they buy.

 

[JSmith]

What's funny to me how many look at these measurements in absolute terms when they shouldn’t always.

Fair call... measurements rely on specific moments in time, whereas perception of reality is fluid. Joined, one can attempt to form a whole view.

That said, shit measurements like this are shocking for such a "premium" product and I can understand why people are looking at same and re-thinking their purchase.



JSmith

 

[eycatcher]

That is something to note? That is the effect of reviews. People seek them out and take them into consideration as to what they buy.

I'm just a fool, I still can't figure out why one would go with a Denon AVR-X3600H? Placebo response?

 

[amirm]

I'm just a fool, I still can't figure out why one would go with a Denon AVR-X3600H? Placebo response?

Create a new thread and ask more clearly. This thread is for review and information about AVM60.

 

[Vasr]

I am the owner of the unit. What's important to know is that I intentionally had this unit checked out by the Paradigm Electronics Service Center at 203 Eggert Rd., Buffalo, NY 14215, prior to shipping it to Amir. Paradigm reported nothing wrong with the unit.

Thanks. Without knowing what they actually test for that might mean something or nothing. It plays through speakers for sure. I am not sure they stick a measurement unit in these tests. You should check the coax/toslink inputs when you get it back.

I also hope the shipping didn't cause some issue with the UPS/Fedex "white glove" service. Rare for something to go wrong with shipping but can happen if there were lose connectors or bad solders.

 

[Francis Vaughan]

Hard to know exactly what a service centre might do. However, one assumes the unit will have a set of internal self test and diagnostics, some of which are likely only known to the service centre. Do a system reset and update to latest software. Then probably just connect to a JTAG interface somewhere, and ask the system to check itself. Finally check for basic operation. Little more they will be doing. They sure as heck won't be connecting it to an AP and doing deep tests.
But running internal self tests and checking the results should assure one that the computational side of operations is working. That is clearly important in respect of Amir's tests.

What does bug me about all of these pre-pro devices is how little effort is made to improve over the AVR with amplification they are based upon. For the money, it would not be a stretch to hope that the manufacturers might add a new board that included a really carefully designed set of DACs and balanced line drivers. Keep the faith and run a true balanced output from the DACs to the outputs. Make a proper effort to get the implementation up to the quality we see from modern desktop DACs. It really should not be that hard. Nor actually cost much. Time and time again we see that it isn't the cost of parts that sets a high quality DAC apart from its brethren, but just the care in implementation. The opportunity exists for any of the niche AVR players, like Anthem, to take that step and deliver to the market something superb, and do it for peanuts on the BOM. Imagine if the next test an AVR from someone like Anthem got a golfing panther. It would not be hard to do this, but it seems that there just isn't the will or interest. Yet it could be a marketing master-stroke. Actually deliver on the marketing promise and be seen to do so in independent tests.

Of course there remains the issue of software. All AVR manufactures are beholden to the various codec and processing software vendors. It is clear a silly part of the cost of an AVR goes in licensing. And worse, integrating the software stack is non-trivial and prone to all manner of unexpected nasties and interactions. Anthem have an advantage with their own EQ software, but we need to factor the cost of development and maintenance of that in with the product. Software has a totally different cost structure to hardware, and the balance isn't easy if you are doing both.